DBS/Z/GT macrocosm structure

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Ignore me, I'm not picking sides, I'm just gonna....

• Low Multiverse level: Characters who can destroy and/or create up to 1000 universal space-time continuums. The power difference between Low 2-C and 2-C characters is not possible to exactly quantify, given that the latter category has to breach the distance between universes along a 5-dimensional axis.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Timeline = Entire multiverse.

Said 2-C Time structure is linked into 12 "pockets" of space that are the universes, which themselves are split into two parts: The mortal world and the afterlife. They aren't in another plane of existence either. You can physically reach it if you can break down space. This is shown in Episode 12.

Also Whis / Beerus literally fly into King Kai's planet. And they can also fly into another universes, just by reaching the edge of space and going through.

 

[Amexim]

Please filter the nonsense from the actual arguments being presented by Ryu. He's not calling for any infinite speed BS directly, he just admitted that it's fishy to him.

Either way, the statement from Goku confirms that time flows "different" in the otherworld.

I am also confused as to why time moving forward in the same direction, at the same time automatically means same timespace. And, if Goku's statement is reliable, this would mean that Goku was capable of assisting Beerus in destroying the matter in another space-time. Doesn't mean low-2C though, I don't think. But in any case, even if Ryu fails to be correct on ANYTHING else, we confirmed that Goku's statement is in reference to the time of the Afterlife.

TLR; If nothing else, we know Goku SAID Time works different in the Afterlife. Whether that means different space time or not, and whether this means upgrades is unknown.

 

[Therefir]

@ByAsura Trunks' timeline has the same flow of time as the main timeline, that is not an argument.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Zelda has two worlds folded upon each other in the Light World and the Dark World/Sacred Realm, with the latter being stated as the same size, the opposite of it, the underground, just like the real world, etc. Not to mention the countless side dimensions like the Twilight Realm and Termina.

Guess what verse tops at Low 2-C.

 

[Kepekley23]

God of War. 9 Realms.

Nuff' said.

 

[ByAsura]

@Therefir

Were talking about the Dragon Ball worlds/Macrocosm, not other timelines.

Also i saw your comment wrong, so it doesn't matter any more.

 

[DMB_1]

ALso the fact that Goku can teleport to the Kai's planet and not to another one of the 12 Universes or the Zen'Oh palace kind of debunks the multpiple scape-times in one universe.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Amexim

For the love of god, stop bringing up Goku's statement. It's been debunked dozens of times.

And it means same timespace because if it's separate, 7 years passing in one timespace shouldn't have any bearing on the time in another.

Ever read Lucifer? Elaine spends 10,000,000,000 years inside her multiverse, and when she leaves no time has passed in the other multiverse, because the two structures have no bearing on each other.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm honestly just tired of people arguing in circles at this point.

 

[LordGinSama]

I'm honestly just tired of people arguing in circles at this point.

Agreed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We should make a rule against trying to get 2-C Battle of Gods Goku and Beerus. This is like the 12th Thread already.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Excuse me, but Goku´s statement still stands. Ive have not seen any proof of it being debunked.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Read the above #135 comments again and you'll see.

 

[Promestein]

Excuse me, but Goku´s statement still stands. Ive have not seen any proof of it being debunked.

I'm honestly asking, did you read the thread?

 

[Kepekley23]

If the time in the Afterlife was any different, by the way, Toriyama would have had no problem doing a RoSaT like situation, especially when he uses it as a plot device in the exact same arc.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

We should make a rule against trying to get 2-C Battle of Gods Goku and Beerus. This is like the 12th Thread already.


Even when there is proof? That does seem to be a bit biased against DB.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

ALso the fact that Goku can teleport to the Kai's planet and not to another one of the 12 Universes or the Zen'Oh palace kind of debunks the multpiple scape-times in one universe.

Don't forget that Beerus and Whis can literally fly into Kai's planet. Literally fly. Most likely by reaching the edge of the Mortal Realm, and going through it into the other half of space.

Just like the shockwaves from Goku and Beerus were physically reaching Kai's planet.

 

[Amexim]

My argument is this;

Just because time flows in the same way, at the same time, it doesn't mean that the time spaces in question are shared.

Trunks' timeline and Goku's timeline flow alongside each other, with the same rates. A day in Trunks' time is a day in Goku's. Doesn't mean that it's the same timespace.

And, via the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, we know that in Dragon Ball, time can move differently in different dimensions while still being a part of a unified space time.

It's my theory that the Afterlife MAY have different time rules, but is still a part of the same entire space time, considering that it's still somehow affected by time travel.

How's that sound?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Keep in mind that if for some reason, we treated that as an infinite speed feat, everyone upwards of Buu Saga Gohan would scale.

 

[Promestein]

My argument is this;

Just because time flows in the same way, at the same time, it doesn't mean that the time spaces in question are shared.

Trunks' timeline and Goku's timeline flow alongside each other, with the same rates. A day in Trunks' time is a day in Goku's. Doesn't mean that it's the same timespace.

And, via the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, we know that in Dragon Ball, time can move differently in different dimensions while still being a part of a unified space time.

It's my theory that the Afterlife MAY have different time rules, but is still a part of the same entire space time, considering that it's still somehow affected by time travel.

How's that sound?

Sounds fine, you can have that theory all you want but that's what it is. There's no absolute proof, so aimless theorizing is pointless when it comes to versus debating.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Amexim

It does. IT objectively does. It demonstrably does across all 12 Universes. This is a major plot point in the Future Trunks Arc.

No they don't. Trunks could have returned to the Dragon Ball Super period after only 2 years of his own timeline by adjusting the set time to that year.

If Toriyama wanted to have the Afterlife be a ROSAT situation, he'd do it. You are basing this whole argument on one out of context line.

It doesn't.

It sounds wrong.

 

[Kepekley23]

The problem is that, if you admit the time behaves the same, there is zero evidence whatsoever of them being different space times other than wishful thinking.

Toriyama introduced an alternate dimension with different time in the previous arc, and used it in the same arc as a plot device. He'd have no trouble doing similar stuff with the Afterlife.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

A lot of these DB threads are based on wishful thinking.

 

[Therefir]

I guess Dbs' entire macrocosm is only Low 2-C because they share the same flow of time and Whis can move to other timelines...

 

[Amexim]

Here is the Japanese scan:

Goku says "in this world where time exists" this world referring to the mortal Universe. This implies the Afterlife time doesnt exist there unlike the mortal universe.


Id also like to link to this thread again made by RM97. I am "Raul Macedo" who he refers to at the end. This thread gives extra details regarding the Macrocosms of the DB verse


https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1127170?useskin=oasis

How has Goku's statement been "debunked" exactly? The only thing I have read is that Kep gave his interpretation of what he thinks Goku meant. And this scan above says different.

Please. Let's everyone stop saying "debunked" at everything, ffs. For people who think that SeththeProgramer is cancer, people on this wiki sure sound like him.

 

[Promestein]

Because time demonstrably flows in the afterlife and even if it didn't, Goku clearly doesn't move at infinite speeds since he still needs time to traverse distances both inside and outside of the afterlife.

 

[Kepekley23]

How does the scan above say '''any''' different? It's what I addressed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

In that scan, Goku is talking about how in the Afterlife the feeling of passage of time doesn't exist. Nobody ages, gets tired, gets hungry, feels sleepy, etc.

Which is why he did so much progress with his training, and could use Super Saiyan 3. Super Saiyan 3 consumes Stamina like crazy. It isn't a technique that's optimized for a world where the passage of time is felt.

Time obviously exists in the Afterlife. 7 years there = 7 years on Earth. Time travel affects them both, as well as the whole multiverse.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

A lot of these DB threads are based on wishful thinking.

You are just dismissing arguments at this point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, the only people dismissing evidence is the people who keep bringing up Goku's scan over and over and ignoring all responses to it.

I.e, you.

 

[Amexim]

If Goku's statement is somehow false or taken out if context, I implore you, Matt, and anyone to explain further than just a single sentence. Provide scans. Evidence. Actually try. Because I'm looking at a pretty good proponderance of evidence for that statement being legitimate. Not sure about everything else, but I think we piece this stuff 1 at a time.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We should make a rule against trying to get 2-C Battle of Gods Goku and Beerus. This is like the 12th Thread already.

@Prom @Kep @Cal

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Heck, "where time exists" makes no sense contextually anyway. He's saying that time makes SSJ3 use too much energy, and the lack of time prevents that?

 

[Therefir]

I guess Dbs' entire macrocosm is only Low 2-C because it share the same flow of time and Whis can move to other timelines...

Can someone explain me this...?

 

[Promestein]

If Goku's statement is somehow false or taken out if context, I implore you, Matt, and anyone to explain further than just a single sentence. Provide scans. Evidence. Actually try. Because I'm looking at a pretty good proponderance of evidence for that statement being legitimate. Not sure about everything else, but I think we piece this stuff 1 at a time.

"Because time demonstrably flows in the afterlife and even if it didn't, Goku clearly doesn't move at infinite speeds since he still needs time to traverse distances both inside and outside of the afterlife."

"It's not infinite, people fight in timeless spaces all the time and time itself is still relevant to Goku throughout every moment he spends as a ghost. The year he has to train is a year in the afterlife and a year in the living world and passes the same. The time he takes to fly across Snake Way is the same. Every thread that infinite speed comes up for with this reasoning is shot down, but you just come back with the same reasoning, like a broken record."

"Their speed is demonstrably not affected by the timelessness - a dead Goku has to fly across Snake Way, which takes forever and is a major plot point given that it gets everyone killed, with time flowing just as it does in the living world, for example."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If Goku's statement is somehow false or taken out if context, I implore you, Matt, and anyone to explain further than just a single sentence. Provide scans. Evidence. Actually try. Because I'm looking at a pretty good proponderance of evidence for that statement being legitimate. Not sure about everything else, but I think we piece this stuff 1 at a time.

Read the thread agai. Everyone already said all there needed to be said. Your argument is fallacious, focusing on the size of the text and not the content.

You could write a six page essay arguing that Aya Shameimaru is best girl and that would still be incorrect. It's objectively Remilia.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Where is Ryu

 

[Amexim]

The way I interpret it, Goku is saying that time doesn't pass in the Afterlife. He didn't say, 'to him" or clarify in anyway that it was about how he felt. You could infer that he's taking about stamina, but the phrasing doesn't at all make it intuitive for your interpretation Kep.

Not to me at least.

 

[Kepekley23]

''The entire context'' supports our interpretation. Goku is talking about why using SSJ3 in the Living World tires him out so much. It makes perfect sense for him to follow up with a statement regarding him not feeling the physical effects of the passage of time.