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DBS speed problem

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AKM sama said:
This. They scale to the propagation speed of their own ki attacks, not some explosion light that was caused by the collision of two powerful energies. Plus the fact that ki sometimes have inconsistently fast speed where a normal human's ki could reach kaioshin realm in a matter of seconds.
Click to expand...
Well if you say so. Say... if the light reached that distance in a short time... and Dyspo is faster than light...
 

Beerus' Speed

Beerus' Speed Using Whis' Staff Speed Well this one is simple to do. Essentially Beerus sends Whis on an errand and gives him three minutes in total to complete the task. Beerus being the impatient guy he is doesn't even wait the...
www.narutoforums.org www.narutoforums.org

Also found this while looking for it but I am pretty certain this one is wrong:

Beerus' Speed revised

Now that the DB universe is pretty well recognized as proper universe size I decided to take a shot at revising Beerus speed. Building off of Nevermind's work: www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=20831 And GM's...
www.narutoforums.org www.narutoforums.org
 
Ok scale that to suppressed Beerus, which scales to Base Goku then bata bing bata boom! We’re good. Right?
 
Someone brought this up to me and said:

I think you could argue beerus feat to be faster if you said the distance they traveled is 1/35 of the distance between beerus planet to earth since it took Whis one minute to get there, and beerus asking whis in the next ep if he can fly any faster kinda implies he was going his fastest too.

Would this be okay?
 
AKM sama said:

Beerus' Speed

Beerus' Speed Using Whis' Staff Speed Well this one is simple to do. Essentially Beerus sends Whis on an errand and gives him three minutes in total to complete the task. Beerus being the impatient guy he is doesn't even wait the...
www.narutoforums.org www.narutoforums.org
Click to expand...

I'm trying to find where in the calc did they figure out the distance, but the only thing I can find keeps linking me to a redirect.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Someone brought this up to me and said:

I think you could argue beerus feat to be faster if you said the distance they traveled is 1/35 of the distance between beerus planet to earth since it took Whis one minute to get there, and beerus asking whis in the next ep if he can fly any faster kinda implies he was going his fastest too.

Would this be okay?
Click to expand...
Oops. The actual time is 26 minutes. 35 was from the movies.

EDIT: Nope it was actually 35.
 
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We don't know where Beerus's planet is regardless. It's the same issue of knowing time, but not knowing the distance to do distance/time.

It's my problem with the linked calc above, I couldn't find the source calcing the distance.
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
We don't know where Beerus's planet is regardless. It's the same issue of knowing time, but not knowing the distance to do distance/time.

It's my problem with the linked calc above, I couldn't find the source calcing the distance.
Click to expand...
It took Whis 1 minute to go from Beerus’ planet to the alien planet and going from Beerus’ planet to earth takes 35 minutes. So it’ll be 1/35 the distance no?
 
My headcanon:

Since we do not know where the nebula is located on which side universe. Then the two options below could aid with the distance problem.

High-End:
Beerus' nebula location is at the other side of the Edge of the Universe.

Low-End:
Beerus' nebula location is at the center of the universe, which is close to Earth.

I think the High-End makes sense because we know the distance from nebula to Planet Earth is 35 mins at Whis full speed. Likely, the alien's homeworld location is closer to the nebula since it only took Whis 1 min to get there at MFTL+.
 
Not sure if this is 100% relevant, but since this seems to be revising Beerus level characters, how would Dyspo's light bullet affect the scaling? Afterall it was fast enough that the Angels had to exert effort to see it, but not so fast that Golden Frieza was unable to react to it, and not so fast that Hit and Goku were completely unable to react to it.
 
I tried to look through a few dragonball wikis to refresh my memory since admittedly it's been years since I've shown any care to study the lore in dragonball super, and it seems my memory is roughly corrected based off of them.

One of the wikis even says this in the trivia section:

  • This planet is located about 26 minutes away from North Kaiō's world, despite it being in the living world (North Kaiō's world is in the Afterworld).[4]
  • The planet is 35 minute away from Earth, and 2 hours 10 minutes away from Nameless Planet.[5]

Unless I'm reading the calc wrong, this is contradictory.
Or maybe I'm just too rusty on the cosmology to discuss.
 
ByAsura said:
Beerus still used more power against Goku than he did in a while, in fact, he even had to use more power to one-shot an amped Vegeta than he did while moving interstellar distances. Note that he was asleep for 39 years before the series began.

Apparently, a nebulae can range from 1 to 10 AU, while one of the smallest planetary nebulas every found is 0.1 by 0.2 light-years. Assuming half an AU (the radius of the lower-end), Beerus is 1.78215978 SoL. If we use 3162.055 AU, then he's 11270.5745 x SoL.
Click to expand...
NGC 7027 is one of the smallest known planetary nebulae. Even so, NGC 7027 is 14,000 times larger than the Earth-Sun distance (>14000 AU)
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
It took Whis 1 minute to go from Beerus’ planet to the alien planet and going from Beerus’ planet to earth takes 35 minutes. So it’ll be 1/35 the distance no?
Click to expand...
Whis and Beerus were very casual while going to the planet in a couple minutes. So it'd be way above 35 times the distance.
LightReinh12345 said:
NGC 7027 is one of the smallest known planetary nebulae. Even so, NGC 7027 is 14,000 times larger than the Earth-Sun distance (>14000 AU)
Click to expand...
Yes, I did say "one of the smallest planetary nebulas ever found" and that they can be way larger, which is why I gave the NGC example. It was purposely a low-end and we even agreed on a couple light-years.
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
Wait, is my memory of DBS cosmology wrong? I thought Beerus's planet was in an unknown spot within the living world.
Click to expand...
AKM's justification is that Goku couldn't sense Beerus or Whis, despite characters being able to sense each other from the Kai's planet.

Correct or not (and I'm still looking for something more substantial), it's PIS. At full speed, Whis consistently takes much longer to travel somewhat similar distances and this was done in the Arale episode. It's even noted that Whis, who previously took 35 minutes to travel the same distance, had never moved that fast.
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
  • This planet is located about 26 minutes away from North Kaiō's world, despite it being in the living world (North Kaiō's world is in the Afterworld).[4]
  • The planet is 35 minute away from Earth, and 2 hours 10 minutes away from Nameless Planet.[5]
Click to expand...
First link is a reference to the BoG movie and only acts as a citation for the timeframe. I'll check the anime for that timeframe.

The Nameless Planet distance is actually from the DBS manga. I'll see if it's in the anime, as well.
 
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I think Whis say Goku and Vegeta just barely learned how to do it properly during their training on Beerus' planet.

Edit: The statement might have been referring to BoG. Idk. Can post BoG base Goku even sense Godly Ki?
 
AKM's justification is that Goku couldn't sense Beerus or Whis
Click to expand...
That is not the justification. The justification, as written in the blog, is that he couldn't sense Vegeta.

Anyway, I don't think the logic of 1/35 even works here, because the same logic that is being used to say that Beerus should not scale to Whis's other displayed feats because Whis's speed is subject to change, even though Beerus was also super suppressed in the episode 2 feat, can also be used here that Whis might not be using the same speeds in both those feats. You can't question the same logic for one feat and then apply it on another feat.

I'm trying to find where in the calc did they figure out the distance, but the only thing I can find keeps linking me to a redirect.
Click to expand...
The other link where it was supposedly calculated seems to be broken. But there is something at the bottom that might give an idea how that distance was calculated.

"If I assume Beers' nebula is about 20 lightyears wide which is reasonable then it needs to be circa 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears away to be invisible.
This only a lazy calc assuming 35 degrees (camera visuals), 1000 pixel picture height and 1 or 0.1 pixel apparent size of the unseen nebula.

Anyways, with this if Whis traveled this under a minute that'd roughly require 16 to 160 billion times FTL speed.
Which makes Beers about 12 to 120 billion times FTL."

So I guess it is based on the size of nebula and how far it should be from that planet to be invisible to the eye.
 
You're right. I did mistake Beerus with Vegeta.

I still think it's a blatant case intentional PIS, though.
 
My new issue now though is about Whis's max speed feet, and whether the distance was inflated or not.

But regardless:

AKM sama said:
"If I assume Beers' nebula is about 20 lightyears wide which is reasonable then it needs to be circa 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears away to be invisible.
This only a lazy calc assuming 35 degrees (camera visuals), 1000 pixel picture height and 1 or 0.1 pixel apparent size of the unseen nebula.

Anyways, with this if Whis traveled this under a minute that'd roughly require 16 to 160 billion times FTL speed.
Which makes Beers about 12 to 120 billion times FTL."
Click to expand...
According to our this calculation page, we assume 70 degrees rather than 35 degrees. I'm also not sure how he's using camera visuals to get 35 degrees since his calc is based off the assumption that you can't see Beerus's nebula from here, but then again I'm not an expert on Angsize to speak much on it.

With that in mind though, going with our designated nebula size of 2 light years, vsbattle's assumption of 70 degrees, and the idea that the nebula would be at least a pixel in size (I feel like 0.1 pixels is a stretch), we get a formula of 2 * 1000/[1*2*tan(70deg/2)] = 1428.14801 light years as the distance.

Continuing with the idea of Beerus crossing this distance in 140 seconds, that would mean Beerus was moving at a speed of 321,914,006.92274922132 c.
 
DeathstroketheHedgehog said:
According to our this calculation page, we assume 70 degrees rather than 35 degrees. I'm also not sure how he's using camera visuals to get 35 degrees since his calc is based off the assumption that you can't see Beerus's nebula from here, but then again I'm not an expert on Angsize to speak much on it.

With that in mind though, going with our designated nebula size of 2 light years, vsbattle's assumption of 70 degrees, and the idea that the nebula would be at least a pixel in size (I feel like 0.1 pixels is a stretch), we get a formula of 2 * 1000/[1*2*tan(70deg/2)] = 1428.14801 light years as the distance.

Continuing with the idea of Beerus crossing this distance in 140 seconds, that would mean Beerus was moving at a speed of 321,914,006.92274922132 c.
Click to expand...
35 degrees is the result of (70deg/2) AKA 35 deg in the formula so basically it doesn't matter.
 
So Goku has this.

Idk if this should be considered a gag feat because it scales to Goku’s reflexes. Travel speed =/= reaction speed, plus Goku was likely carried by the momentum.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
So Goku has this.

Idk if this should be considered a gag feat because it scales to Goku’s reflexes. Travel speed =/= reaction speed, plus Goku was likely carried by the momentum.
Click to expand...
Nah, this is a gag feat, it's mostly just Goku hanging on for dear life, not a speed feat.
 
So I rewatched the fight between Gokek and Beebus, and I found something pretty interesting. They’re shown on two occasions to react to a detonation fast enough to cover/destroy the universe. I made blog that goes into detail about it.

Sorry to bring up this portion again, but it’s the only thing they’ve got that isn’t a travel feat.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
So I rewatched the fight between Gokek and Beebus, and I found something pretty interesting. They’re shown on two occasions to react to a detonation fast enough to cover/destroy the universe. I made blog that goes into detail about it.

Sorry to bring up this portion again, but it’s the only thing they’ve got that isn’t a travel feat.
Click to expand...
I have some issues.

Instead Goku and Beerus were able to turn their energy into a condensed ball.
Click to expand...
Then that just means their ki blasts can destroy the universe, unsure how stopping their ki blasts, probably with ki control, makes it a speed feat. Hell this just means they nulled it before another wave even happens. My example again, dodging a grenade =/= dodging the explosion.

As for the second example, we don't actually see any waves, just the light. But that's all it is, a bright light made by ki. The fact that Beerus nulled it before anything serious happens kinda just further proves it isn't a speed feat because... nothing is actually travelling. I get that you think just because ki blasts destroy a universe, it scales to the speed, but we don't really do that. We don't really apply speed to someone who can destroy a universe with a blast that extends over it, it's just range. Take a look at many tier 3 characters and let me know how many get their ratings from using a blast that destroys something. It's like giving someone a speed tier via causing an earthquake. And even then, both of your examples literally have neither Goku nor Beerus actually reacting to the waves, they're both nulled before anything happens.
 
I agree with you on the condensed ball thing. That's clearly just them compressing their energy during a clash.

The light thing was supporting the speed of the universe-destroying energy blast from Goku and Beerus' final clash. I didn't mean it scaled to their speed. I should have been more clear on this point.

But the energy from the final clash had actually started moving, unless it would have become much faster afterwards.
 
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