• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

DBS/Goku Revisions

Status
Not open for further replies.

Golden_Void

VS Battles
Retired
6,974
2,018
First and foremost, UI is a state of being, not a form. What Goku transforms into is called Ultra Instinct Ome .

New DBS Key (To cut down the bulk)

Attack Potency: Universe level (He and Beerus' clash threatened the universemultiple times. Eventually, Goku absorbed the power of SSG, and surpassed it. Able to disperse the energycreated by the fusion of his and Beerus's attacks in base form, especially when the latter increased its size multiple times. Attained Super Saiyan Blue. He combined kaioken with SSB, which doubles his power, against Fusion Zamasu, Bergamo, Gohan and Hit, though he used Kaioken x10 on the latter, multiplying his power by 10, not needing it in their second fight. He also defeated Copy Vegeta, stalemated Golden Frieza, overwhelmed Frost, and pulverized Toppo (both were holding back) after he became SSB. Used SSB + Kaioken x20 on Jiren, though Jiren was unphased. Brokepasthislimitsby resisting his spirit bomb, allowing him to fight both SSJ2 Caulifla and True LSSJ Kale as a mere SSJ2 and SSJ3, while being leagues beyond them as a Super Saiyan God, all while he was still recovering from his fight with Jiren. Universe level+ in Ultra Instinct Omen (Fought and matched Jire during their battle, even managing to hurt him. The Ultra Instinct is a state of power that not even the Gods of Destruction can easily attain. Shook the entire World of Void, which is described as being infinite in size, with his ki alone. Defeated Kefla with a full power kamehameha in UIO, which was stronger than his previous use of the form.)
Massively FTL+ (Could keep up with Beerus, when the latter was holding back, kept up with Hit in normal SSB, who adapted to Goku using SSB + Kaioken x10, reacted to Dyspo (who was too fast for Zeno and Champa to see) and read his movements using SSG and SSB, fought Jiren using SSB + Kaioken x20, created afterimages in base while fighting SSJ2 Caulifla), Massively FTL+ in Ultra Instinct (Attacked Jiren before Toppo and Dyspo realized what had happened, blitzed Kefla.)


| Dragon Ball Super
Power Scaling

For starters, thisisthebasisfor Post-Jiren Goku's newfound power.
Currently, Goku is still not at 100% from his fight with Jiren. While he was much weaker than he was currently, he was able to fight with SS2 Caulifla in base. Despite his skills being what set the two apart, Goku still needed the speed and power to not be demolished by her, regardless of technique. As proof of this, he successfully used the afterimage technique on Caulifla, which is moving so fast that the user is FTE, seemingly leaving copies of him/herself.
When Goku became SS2 in Ep 113, he was still holding back, as he went all out SS2 in Ep 114. In 113, he was able to fight on parwith Caulifla and SSJ Kale, with the main problem being their coordination. In fact, Caulifla and Kale's ki blasts were stopped by SS2 Goku's kialone, while he was transforming into a SS3. Caulifla find SS3 Goku's ki to be remarkable. It should also be noted that the argument can be used for SSB Goku holding back against Berserker Kale, but Whis states SSB maximizes speed and power, so it would make no sense for him to go higher than say, SSJ3 or SSG if he's simply going to hold back.
In Ep 114, the feats get better. Kale goes beserk, but then shechanges. As stated by the bench warmers, Kale is in control and is no longer beserk, plusshe got drastically more powerful. Goku, still not at 100% and still not using his full power, is still able to fight with them (Caulifla basically admits she loses to him in a 1v1), with Goku putting a ki ball in Kale's stomachas a counter to her pushing him back, which gets knocked away by Kale. Goku finally uses his full SS2 power, only to be restrained by Kale, and used as a punching bag by Caulifla, though Goku eventually escapes and puts Kale on her back, then transforms into SSG.
Goku effortlessly blocksboth of their attacks. Caulifla immediately becomes a nuisance, as Goku is stomping her and swatting her away like a fly, because Kale is more of a fight. Caulifla gets triggered and sets Goku up for Kale's ki blast which she puts effort into, but this doesnothingto Goku, which shocks both of the girls. They both attempt to attack him from the sides with ki blast, but Goku almost casually bursts through their ki blasts with his own, basically incapacitating Caulifla, and visibly straining Kaleas she tries to deflect it. He was also confident that he would finish them off with a kamehameha, that is, until they fused.
Herethe kaioshiandKrillidiscuss Goku becoming a SSG, who is still recovering. Herms's summarybasically states the same.
As of 116, Whis stated SSJ Kefla's power rivaled that of the spirit bomb, which Goku resisted with all his might in base SSB, evolving him into UIO.
Possible New Abilities

Reactive Evolution (At least for Caulifla and Goku)- In the tournament time, Goku has been fighting while waiting to get back to full power for a minute. I'm not sure how one recovers while doing the very thing that made them weakened, but oh well.
Caulifa quickly closing the gapbetween her and Goku's skillset. Gets strongeras she fights. Goku also becomes more powerful the more he fights.
It aligns with the saiyan physiology, with saiyans getting stronger every time they fight, and becoming even stronger after healing from a beating. In 116, this was demonstrated again.
However in my old thread, SD and Ever suggested we create a new page for this ability, naming it Reactive Power Level.
Black Arc Discussion

Goku in Z says time flows differently in the afterlife, which means for Zeno to have erased an entire universe, he'd have to transcend the time space of the mortal universe to reach the afterlife/demon realm, and the Supreme Kai realm that resides outside of the universe given the DB map.
In addition to that, we see Infinite Zamasu beginning to creep through the distortio in time and space that Trunks created with his time machine (he never made it completely through), validated by Pilaf and crew standing in front of the void watching it, and Beerus and Whis feeling his energy, meaning Zeno also destroyed Zamasu who was connected to all of the Universe's time and space.
The reason I bring this up is because Beerus and Goku were hitting each other with blows that could destroy the universe, turning it into a void . Zeno turned future U7 into a void, and Zamasu gives evidence that he was attached to space time as well, and Zeno erased him.
Scaling-wise, this would make a lot of characters Low 2-C.
Checklist: Goku profiles updated

UIO page created

Super Saiyan pages updated

Black Arc discussio


DBS Saiyan ability
 
seems ok to me too but I think you could change from destroyed Kefla to defeated Kefla imho but otherwise fine with me
 
SchroKatze said:
Reactive Power Level is something that every single sayan have. Zenkai.
Zenkai happens when Saiyans recover from critical damage. We are shown repeated statements of Saiyans gaining more power mid-fight, and adapting mid-battle.
 
I think we should cut the bulk more.

His universe Level rating is just explained by his clash with beerus and absorbing that power into his base. Everything else is just further Universe level stuff until UI, so no need to add anything more.

Second: Low 2-C can be reduced to: scaling from a casual Jiren.

In Jiren's profile we'd have the explanation.

The speed rating should be smaller too:

MFTL+ (scaling from casual beerus), higher in UI.
 
Cutting too much bulk is bad. It eliminates 90% of the crucial supporting details and eliminates most of the character's own feats (we're so past Beerus's speed in BoG). Guys like Lucemon and most of the WH40k pages damn near have essays on their pages.
 
Do we really need all the feats in the key, tho? His rating wont vary. It will be universe level with 1 feat or with 1 hundred. And I dont think we have another feat apart from beerus' and whis' to scalr speed from.
 
@Seed

I explained Kale's power under power scaling

@Pachi

Your suggestion of just leaving it at universal after BoG would show that nothing really happened from then to the ToP, as well as leaving out mainly every greater showing of strength.

Also I have speed feats listed at the bottom of the key.
 
Whatever really, I thought goku's profile was very cluttered but if everyone thinks is okay like that, its cool.
 
Well I believe Piccolo said their power was causing each other to get stronger. If Goku would get stronger, Kefla would get stronger. Caulifla and Goku said they got stronger through fighting, which is a similar statement that we got from UIO Goku getting stronger with each block and attack (basically fighting), and he has reactive evolution on his profile.
 
Still sounds like accelerated growth for me. What exactly causes the growth is a different story.


But I suppose you could write it down as a very limited form of reactive evolution.

Or you just write what she can do on her profile, without linking it anywhere.

Like, in the end it absolutely doesn't matter what powers and abilities page you link it to, as long as you make clear what exactly it does in the section...
 
1.Noticed

2. Goku is in no way shape or form comparable to Vegeta. Kaioken x20 didn't work on Jiren, so he used the spirit bomb with energy from multiple universal people, which is far beyond his capabilities as a SSB KKx20, and he resisted being vaporized by it, which unlocked UIO. And I'm pretty sure fighting SSJ2 Caulifla in base disproves that.

3. Ok?
 
I don't think that's necessarily the case though. Base Goku blitzed Caulifla with the afterimage technique (which is simply sheer speed), and she adapted far enough (Even Roshi says she has great adaptability) to the point where Goku went straight to SSJ2.

That's not to suggest that Goku was pushing her limits in base, when Whis states his reason for winning was due to skill. In fact, what further confirms that he doesn't fight near his limits, is that every time he does reach his limit, he pretty much automatically attains Ultra Instinct. Any other time, he still has much left in his reserves.
 
Ultra Instinct is the technique itself, the transformation that comes with it is not simply Ultra Instinct.
 
UI is the technique, which doesnt boost power.

Goku has something else that is boosting him when he enters that state. This was noted by whis when he said something like: I wonder what's that aura. Implying that your typical UI, or whatever whis and co has doesnt come with Goku's blue aura.
 
Mastery of self movement = Ultra Instinct

Described in episode 110: that is a state that not even a god can easily attain

Earlier in DBS Whis: Not even Beerus has mastered it yet

@Ever it's only a Dokkan thing ):
 
@Aeyu

Sorry I deleted your comment.

I prefer if we drop the UI thing until more information is revealed, okay?
 
@Pachi

What if we give DBS Goku his own profile? We have a profile for teen Goku and DBGT, we also have a profile for teen Naruto and adult Naruto.

This way there's less clutter while we still get to emphasize on all the details of Super.
 
I would argue that most of the cluttering comes from techniques and details that would only remain on both profiles in that case.
 
Nah, that seems to be contradictory to the standard set up of a profile for really not that much improvement.
 
DBZ has Saiyan Saga, Namek, Androids and Buu.

DBS has BoG, RoF, U6 Tournament, Black Arc, Zen-Exhibition/Tournament of Power.

We're trying to condense at least 10 arcs of material into one profile, I think a separate profile for DBS Goku would be more efficient.
 
Well I see two tiers, unless you want the most repetitive profile on the wiki of course.
 
@Darkmon ye, exactly. I was thinking about making a thread about that too. It's extremely unnecessary.
 
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Lucemo

Pls

Then take my suggestion, split it in half, now the new Goku page only has two keys. As it is, we already have a DBS key and a UI key even though they're technically one and the same, now he would only have a 3-A and low 2-C key.

Super has no end in sight, we're only going to stretch the page even more and dumb down 99% of the info to cram for space.
 
That should be shorten down regardless, the fact that you think that was even an argument is not a good idea.

So it would be the same as we have now?

I think you underestimate exactly how much info would be the exact same on the new profile. Remove the keys and the change is not as big as you think, most of it comes from the techniques and other info that would be on both profiles.
 
It's from the shading of the World of Void. I like it better anyway, DBZ oversaturated everything.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top