DBH upgrade to High 2-A

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Why not? Deadpool can now cut the Marvel Multiverse in pieces.

Literally.

Because it ain't real. And massive outlier because Man-Thing of all people created the chance. Hell, that is even possible downgrade for writers if they show up again.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Zero, why are you so scared of a vote count?

 

[Antvasima]

I also strongly agree with Matthew's and Ryukama's reasoning.

We should probably close this thread.

In addition, given how frequently the Xenoverse/Dragon Ball Heroes upgrade threads pop up, I think that we should get a discussion rule regarding this topic.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just gonna note, as far as "poetic language" goes, its not Matt's job to prove the negative here. It's your job to prove the positive and that it isn't poetic language but legit.

Someone can call something hyperbole but they don't need to prove that. It's up to the other side to disprove it. Same thing here.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Rapid, why would we need something to indicate what is blatantly obvious? If it is so important to you: do it yourself.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

@Ant

I've given my rebuttel. it should at the very least be considered a read through

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Just been viewing this for now since my knowledge on Xenoverse and Heroes isn't much but alot of people seem to be against closing the thread. Probably should wait.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

But some of us do agree on this, Ant.

Me, Zenkai and Beerus.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Just gonna note, as far as "poetic language" goes, its not Matt's job to prove the negative here. It's your job to prove the positive and that it isn't poetic language but legit.
Someone can call something hyperbole but they don't need to prove that. It's up to the other side to disprove it. Same thing here.

I have. They wouldn't have mentioned space-time if it was simple poetic language. They clearly needed to transcend the multiverse to enter the Real world. Disprove the statement.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Yeah, disprove that.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

10/10 thread.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Super Saiyan 2 isnt literally above Super Saiyan 1 now?

No. It surpasses the limits of it. Demigra surpasses the limits of the multiverse to get to something outside of it. And not above it, but outside. The DB multiverse's limits are incapable of reaching out to Beat's world.

They literally use the same phrase in the Goku Black Saga, and no one there surpasses space-time. They travel beyond its limits.

Finally even if we somehow agree to everything that was said in the OP, that would still only be a 4-D, Low 2-C feat. Keep in mind that no one in DBH sans IZ (who's the timeline itself, so it doesn't count) is 4-D. Characters who see the universe as fiction legitimately and are actually higher dimensional, don't become 5-D because they see the timeline as fiction. For example, Annoying Dog would be 4-D if Chara, Omega Flowey, and Asriel were just tier 2 as opposed to higher dimensional beings. Arceus transcends time and space, and is 2-B, same as actual time and actual space.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

I'm waiting on a refute, Mat

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Well, they do transcent time and space, but in this scenario, Demigra would be surpassing the entire multiverse.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Okay, now you are just shitposting. Someone close the thread already, this is going to nowhere.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

I deleted it.


We are waiting for Matthew´s reply to Zenkai

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Everyone debunked you, you just don't like it.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Zenkai's recent post hasn't been refuted yet. Maybe wait for Matt to comment before closing.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Me? Zenkai is the one who needs debunking, go after him.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I already gave a response, which while not on purpose, was a response to Zenkai.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

But Zenkai wants a reply from MATTHEW.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But Zenkai wants a reply from MATTHEW.

If Matt finds commenting redundant, he's not gonna respond. But to make a compromise, Matt, if you agree with me, plz like my most recent essay post.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

You know, I've been noticing something in CRTs. A lot of people who make them go with the 'You have to prove me wrong' argument. However, a CRT is basically a persuasive argument that's attempting to present logic and evidence to explain why something need to be changed. As it's trying to change the status quo or something that has already been decided, it falls to person making the argument to persuade others that they are right or have a point.

As such the argument and evidence will be scrutinised and dissected. If it fails to convince everyone or an argument is made that truly calls it into question, it's up to others to decide which sounds more reasonable.

Just an observation I've noticed recently.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Everyone? you haven't given me a response

"No. It surpasses the limits of it. Demigra surpasses the limits of the multiverse to get to something outside of it. And not above it, but outside. The DB multiverse's limits are incapable of reaching out to Beat's world.

They literally use the same phrase in the Goku Black Saga, and no one there surpasses space-time. They travel beyond its limits.

Finally even if we somehow agree to everything that was said in the OP, that would still only be a 4-D, Low 2-C feat. Keep in mind that no one in DBH sans IZ (who's the timeline itself, so it doesn't count) is 4-D. Characters who see the universe as fiction legitimately and are actually higher dimensional, don't become 5-D because they see the timeline as fiction. For example, Annoying Dog would be 4-D if Chara, Omega Flowey, and Asriel were just tier 2 as opposed to higher dimensional beings. Arceus transcends time and space, and is 2-B, same as actual time and actual space."

That makes no logicial sense. It's not just "outside of it". It's stated to be a dimension, which Demigra needed to transcend space-time to reach.

They never mention transcending into a dimension in the Goku Black saga. Only the episode title says "feelings that transcend time". < THAT is poetic language. There is no mention of transcendence of time-space by characters unlike there is in Heroes.

I thought we weren't allowed to use other verses to try upgrade DBH. Why is it being used to "debunk" it? That's straight up bias. It's a dimension, that requires you to transcend space-time to enter, that views DBH multiverse as fiction. A simple universe will not do that, especially to something many times bigger than it.

Everything I responded to in partains to Maths rebuttel hasn't been answered

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

I mean, OP DID present proof.

Its Matthew´s and whoever opposes the upgrade to prove why it is wrong.

 

[Antvasima]

Stop antagonising an administrator.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Sorry

 

[Antvasima]

@Zenkai

The staff have simply attempted to explain our standards for Reality - Fiction Interaction to you.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

• Stated to be a dimension.

And? Is Kirby and co. tier 2 because Magolor created Another Dimension? Being called a dimension means nothing without enough explanation. It's synonymous with universe unless proven otherwise. Also, I just loade the imgur image. It's even worse than I thought. It's just a name for a means of travel. This would be like if we treated the Ocean Dub's "(an)other dimension" as higher dimensional because it's in the name. Actually, it's even worse than that, because at least it's referred to by name there, instead of just being dimension transfer.

• Not allowed to use other verses?

When was that a rule? Sure, using double standards is looked down upon, but using examples isn't in the slightest.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

That's not my main argument, Ant. The argument is it being a dimension that needs to be transcended into. Which has only been "refutted" by saying it's poetic language and it just being another universe, which I have responsed to and have recieved no answer back for

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That's the problem. You're saying it has to be transcended into, which is false. Space has to be transcended to reach Beat's world, which is very, very different. Because transcending space can, and does, mean to bypass its limits, not to achieve a higher dimensional status.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

But you are literally affecting a higher dimensionsal realm

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

@Cal

A simple "universe" won't view an entire multiverse as a game. By that logic the entire DBH multiverse is bigger than the "Real world" simply because "It's a universe". It's a dimension, that requires you to transcend into it. A dimension that transcends space-time is higher dimensional. The translations clearly state, and hold is as a huge threat "What!?... the stadium of your world was affected too!? Damn... it transcended space and went to another world!"

Matthew said to not use other verses as examples to try upgrade the DB characters, yet here and other threads it happenes. That is double standard.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also, if Beat were truly a higher dimensional being in an avatar, he wouldn't need a device to go back to his world. He'd just shed his avatar and go back.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Double Standard indeed

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Also, if Beat were truly a higher dimensional being in an avatar, he wouldn't need a device to go back to his world. He'd just shed his avatar and go back.

He does lmao. After UMX ends, Beat jumps back into the Real world, He only uses a device to make himself an avatar

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Cal, its like SAO, if you die in the game, you DIE in real life.

Beat wouldnt suicide.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

He does?


Zenkai, post that ASAP

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Cal

A simple "universe" won't view an entire multiverse as a game. By that logic the entire DBH multiverse is bigger than the "Real world" simply because "It's a universe". It's a dimension, that requires you to transcend into it. A dimension that transcends space-time is higher dimensional. The translations clearly state, and hold is as a huge threat "What!?... the stadium of your world was affected too!? Damn... it transcended space and went to another world!"

Matthew said to not use other verses as examples to try upgrade the DB characters, yet here and other threads it happenes. That is double standard.

• Paragraph 1:

Except Digimon did it already. Marvel did it. DC did it. Also, yes. The DB multiverse is bigger than Beat's world unless shown. A multiverse will always be bigger than a single world.

Also, given that world doesn't mean spatial dimension in any context, that quote supports my interpretation rather than yours. Demigra transcended space to go to another world, not another dimension.

• Paragraph 2:

Because saying "if this happens with this verse, this should happen with another" is different from "this is analogous to this"

 

[Beerus1000]

@Cal

A simple "universe" won't view an entire multiverse as a game. By that logic the entire DBH multiverse is bigger than the "Real world" simply because "It's a universe". It's a dimension, that requires you to transcend into it. A dimension that transcends space-time is higher dimensional. The translations clearly state, and hold is as a huge threat "What!?... the stadium of your world was affected too!? Damn... it transcended space and went to another world!"

Matthew said to not use other verses as examples to try upgrade the DB characters, yet here and other threads it happenes. That is double standard.

• Paragraph 1:

Except Digimon did it already. Marvel did it. DC did it. Also, yes. The DB multiverse is bigger than Beat's world unless shown. A multiverse will always be bigger than a single world.

Also, given that world doesn't mean spatial dimension in any context, that quote supports my interpretation rather than yours. Demigra transcended space to go to another world, not another dimension.

• Paragraph 2:

Because saying "i

beats world has already been shown to be bigger than the dragonball multiverse due to the dragonball multiverse being just a game in his world.i mean how else are they supposed to show beat world being bigger than the dragonball multiverse?