DBH upgrade to High 2-A

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Wait, am i a troll because i think the girl who sees the marvel multiverse as fictional could face a god which is technically fiction to her?

And, like ive said for the third time, that is ANOTHER topic, separate from this one.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Transcending by definition means surpassing the limits. Demigra is surpassing the limits of space by traveling beyond its confines, rather than dimensionally rising above it.

 

[Akreious]

And we explain Demigra transcending DB's regular Space-Time how...? I don't think Transcending = Universe Travelling (Basically everyone can do that with TIMELINES in DBH).

Because space and time aren't the same thing, despite how commonly they're intertwined. There are hundreds of characters who can time travel, but can't leave their universe and vice versa.

... What? We clearly see the DBH cast Universe travel as well as Time Travel though. It happens a lot. And that still doesn't explain how the wording is explicitly said to be "Transcending", unless we're considering that fluff as well

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Are we really going to ignore the WoG posted in OP?

 

[Ryukama]

1. "Real world" 4th wall breaking stuff isn't quantifiable for anything. None of these characters actually traversed into our real world. They're all still fictional.

2. However if we're counting this metafictional crap, TOAA is explicitly stated multiple times to have created everything that's ever happened in Marvel Comics (including Gwenpool) and to have created our real world. Plus he's transcendent of Oblivion, who is stated capable of killing the audience reading his stories.

Even when you want to become pants on head silly, Gwen being above TOAA is still pants on head silly.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Read my latest comment. Furthermore, DBH cast travel throughout the 12 universes. Not separate worlds.

 

[RapidMotorcycle19]

Can we stop with the Gwen vs TOAA stuff? It has nothing to do with this.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Can we stop with the Gwen vs TOAA stuff? It has nothing to do with this.

But it's the same principle.

 

[Akreious]

Gwenpool and Deadpool's whole gig is breaking the fourth wall and basically screwing around with the plot and their self-referencial humour. DBH is a much more serious power-driven series. They shouldn't be equivalent to eachother.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Yup. Technically same thing. And all of the people I presented see the verse they live in as a fiction yet they don't transcended them.

 

[Akreious]

By the definition of transcend and with our system, they technically should. It's just us that says "Muh no" to it, although I can see why. Haxless transcending beings galore

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Marvel actually already has an explantion for breaking the Fourth Wall. Characters in the Multiverse are just communicating with Earth-1218, OUR Earth.

 

[Antvasima]

Feel free to give Rapid a warning to stop being severely irrational and unreasonable. I do not think that we can conclusively categorise him as a troll yet, just because he wastes our time and patience.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

By the definition of transcend and with our system, they technically should.

Should every verse that uses hyperverse be 1-B? Using the word transcend doesn't mean our definition, just like characters who use hyper or outer to describe their universes doesn't make said verses tier 1. Just because light(ning) is used to describe an attack doesn't mean we treat it as our standards of light(ning). Just because dimension is used doesn't mean we treat it as our standards of dimension.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Not just Mahvel but DC has a world like this as well. The Flash traveled to the universe where they are fiction. Does that make him High 2-A? No. The player like The Player (Doki Doki Literature Club!), Frisk, and even cartoon character like Rick Sanchez see their world as fiction but they are part of it. Don't upgrade a character by seeing the world as legit fiction plz.

 

[Antvasima]

I still think that we should close this thread, and then discuss a new regulation text to avoid that this topic wastes more of our time in the future.

 

[Akreious]

But what evidence do we have against it besides "Nah they shouldn't"? we have two pieces of evidence as well as Word of God that says dimensions + Transcending, what is holding it back besides our logic of "Well other verses transcend too, so this shouldn't either without even more evidence"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The times when characters who can treat verses like fiction are only considered higher dimensional if a) they see it as fiction because they created it, or b) they can f*ck with its entirety at a whim.


Plz correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Or other people see them as Higher-Dimensional entity I think.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

But what evidence do we have against it besides "Nah they shouldn't"? we have two pieces of evidence as well as Word of God that says dimensions + Transcending, what is holding it back besides our logic of "Well other verses transcend too, so this shouldn't either without even more evidence"

Buddy, every piece of evidence was debunked to hell and back. Beat was dragged into another world. Are you going to tell me that every isekai anime is higher dimensional? Beat's world isn't once stated to be of a higher dimension. It's only, and I repeat, only, treated as a world where DB is a franchise. And the WoG statement isn't even evidence. Watching it with the readers? Seriously? Not only is that not even proof, because watching something play out like we are doesn't mean that they see it like fiction. I've seen people like Dora say they're doing things with the audience.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

The times when characters who can treat verses like fiction are only considered higher dimensional if a) they see it as fiction because they created it, or b) they can f*ck with its entirety at a whim.

Plz correct me if I'm wrong.

But they did? The authors of DBH exist in the Real world and it's their home plane of reality. Which is the same place Beat lives in.

I've honestly seen no rebuttle on the fact that it's a dimension that requires you to transcend into it. Most have been either saying "no. It's just another universe" with absolutley nothing going to that conclusion. There is absolutley nothing going towards Demigra just "travelling" there either. If it was, he wouldn't need to "transcend" as the scan stated

 

[TurboTriangle601]

Well the showing that Capsule Corp. is the one who made the Dragon Ball Heroes Arcade Machines show that the DBH "Real World" is the Dragon Ball world, also Goku Jr.'s friend Puck is in Beat's class. They is also several mentions of the Dragon Balls use in the past

This, and the fact that Beat lives in Satan City pretty much debunks the upgrade if it weren't already without going to overly complicated mumbo-jumbo.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The authors of DBH writing about DBH doesn't make them higher dimensional by default though. When I say that, I'm talking about beings like Eternity or Arceus, who actually create the universe and sees it like fiction. Writing panels is nothing like creating a spacetime. Again, DCAU episode. A creator can just lolenter their verse and messing with it. DBH only writes what comes to their heads, and like in that DCAU episode, what comes to their heads is what actually happened.

For the last time, the dimension itself doesn't require transcendence. Demigra transcended SPACE. Not even spacetime like I thought at first. Just space. Transcending limits means to go beyond it's boundaries. Which is what Demigra did with space. I've said that quite a few times at that point. Heck, DB has always used transcend as going beyond boundaries/surpassing limits. And it's supposed to change it's definition because people want High 2-A Dragon Ball? I've also said that Beat's world is described as just that. A world. Just another world. Not a dimension. Beat (or whoever that was) can't just get Isekai'd into a lower world if he were higher dimensional. There isn't a shred of evidence of Beat's world being higher dimensional that holds water, because no one treats DB as fiction, as opposed to thinking DB is fiction until proven otherwise.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

At this point, the thread needs to close.

We're going around in circles, and the majority of us disagree with the upgrade and precedent that it would set. Reasons have been stated 'why' multiple times. Those reasons are just being denied.

Point is: the argument fails to convince.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

While you're 1000000000000000% correct, I like giving people a chance to debate.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

The authors of DBH writing about DBH doesn't make them higher dimensional by default though. When I say that, I'm talking about beings like Eternity, who actually create the universe and sees it like fiction. Again, DCAU episode.
For the last time, the dimension itself doesn't require transcendence. Demigra transcended SPACE. Not even spacetime like I thought at first. Just space. Transcending limits means to go beyond it's boundaries. Which is what Demigra did with space. I've said that quite a few times at that point. Heck, DB has always used transcend as going beyond boundaries/surpassing limits. And it's supposed to change it's definition because people want High 2-A Dragon Ball? I've also said that Beat's world is described as just that. A world. Just another world. Not a dimension. Beat (or whoever that was) can't just get Isekai'd into a lower world if he were higher dimensional. There isn't a shred of evidence of Beat's world being higher dimensional that holds water.

The authors/writers etc. are the ones who created the Real World though lmao. Literally nearly all prodecures of the game and manga exist in the real world

And? For the Chronos scan in SS it only said "transcends time" not space-time. Yet Matthew used "Space-time" to get the upgrade through. Dragon Ball characters never used the word "transcend" apart from Jiren transcneding time, which was deemed an outlier. This is the first time they are talking about transcending space-time and the DBH world/multiverse, which in itslef should be a higher dimensional feat.

Also stop dodging my debate challenge outside this wiki and on voice chat lmao

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Read my edit. Creating panels =/= creating universes. Also, Chrono Trigger did it, and they, who actually use avatars, aren't even main cast level.

Just re-read what you said. Created the real world? I highly doubt that, and even then, creating panels =/= creating universes.

Once again, time and space are two different things, despite how constantly they're intertwined. And I'm almost positive transcending has been used in DB to refer to surpassing limits. Heck, Ascended Super Saiyan is a thing. Jiren transcending time isn't an outlier, because it can be interpreted as him surpassing the limits of Hit's time stop, which is what he did.

 

[Aeyu]

@Cal

All Jiren surpassing time does is support his Low 2-C more, aka Hit's attacks are nowhere near enough to damage him.

I don't think that Toei has any intention of using dimensionality in their work, as they don't seem to be referring to time as the separate eigenvalue temporal dimension, and have used the latter to refer to alternate universes/realms in the past.

 

[LordGinSama]

Ayo how's about we all chill?

 

[Antvasima]

At this point, the thread needs to close.

We're going around in circles, and the majority of us disagree with the upgrade and precedent that it would set. Reasons have been stated 'why' multiple times. Those reasons are just being denied.

Point is: the argument fails to convince.

Agreed. I will close this now.

@Matthew and other staff members

I would appreciate if you place a suggestions for a new discussion rule regarding this topic on my message wall. Thank you.