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DBH Revision?

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Planck69 said:
I'll point out that the argument isn't about 5-dimensional space at all. Nor does it apply to all multiverses.

There's an uncountably infinite amount of 3-dimensional universes in a timeline (one for each infinitesimal moment) and destroying this is Low 2-C.

Now, a timeline containing 4-dimensional space-time continuums would have an uncountably infinite number of 4-dimensional universes making up itself. So destroying it is Low 1-C.

Note that this only applies if a multiverse is specified to be a timeline in which lesser timelines are bound. Anything else is just a regular Tier 2 structure.
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Thanks for explaining it a lot better so because of this I am fully on board with this if this matches the standard
 
To clarify, there are verses that would be Low 1-C for this. But nowhere near as many as people seem to think.

Anyways, I'm going to sleep. I ask people to keep the spam to a minimum.
 
Saw something on Ultima message wall that kind of addresses this issue, Anyways let wait for him/her
 
To clarify: When I talked about this before, I was referring to cosmologies where the entire timeline of a smaller spacetime continuum was superseded, and thus subordinate to, a higher flow of time in a bigger space, much like how the spatial volume of a 4-D universe is subordinate to the full time axis, which holds uncountably infinite "snapshots" of it, each corresponding to a single point in time.
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In this case, the best way to prove that would be by showing that the multiverse has its own past and a future that exists separately from the past and future of individual timelines and instead encompasses them, and thus, destroying the multiverse throughout this higher flow of time would be Low 1-C, just like destroying the universe throughout all of time is Low 2-C.
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Be careful with that, though, since timelines are ultimately objects that can be mathematically treated like any other, and thus have hypervolume (4-volume, specifically, assuming they are 4-D continuums) that informs their size, too. So, if a spacetime continuum is explicitly finite and contained within a larger one, it's very, very plausible that the latter just has a larger hypervolume than it, but not necessarily infinitely so.
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This is the post Lormac is talking about. On his wall here.
 
I'm pretty sure xeno goku and demigra put the crack of time at risk when they fought and the crack of time is described as a 6th dimensional space that is outside time too
 
Thedoctor said:
I'm pretty sure xeno goku and demigra put the crack of time at risk when they fought and the crack of time is described as a 6th dimensional space that is outside time too
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If it’s just some random space that contains them and not a timeline, then it doesn’t qualify.
 
@Zamasu_Chan

Could you explain to me where all of this about timelines within timelines comes from, in DBH's case? I think I have a pretty good idea of what it's supposed to be, but I'd like to confirm it first.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
@Zamasu_Chan

Could you explain to me where all of this about timelines within timelines comes from, in DBH's case? I think I have a pretty good idea of what it's supposed to be, but I'd like to confirm it first.
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It’s the exact same as DBS. There are 12-18 universes within a timeline made by a time ring.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
It’s the exact same as DBS. There are 12-18 universes within a timeline made by a time ring.
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Sorry if I'm bringing back an old debate, but that does sound pretty strange, given how I could've sworn that we all agreed to not treat the individual universes as separate spacetimes anymore in the thread you've made regarding the standards for Low 2-C. Mostly because of how Zeno destroying Trunks' world (And killing Zamasu along with it) clearly didn't destroy past, present and future, seeing as how Whis still could go back in time to a period where it wasn't erased yet, which in itself just sounds like more evidence that they are not spacetimes on their own rather than evidence that the Dragon Ball Multiverse has a second temporal dimension.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Sorry if I'm bringing back an old debate, but that does sound pretty strange, given how I could've sworn that we all agreed to not treat the individual universes as separate spacetimes anymore in the thread you've made regarding the standards for Low 2-C.
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Then why was it rejected?
Ultima_Reality said:
Mostly because of how Zeno destroying Trunks' world (And killing Zamasu along with it) clearly didn't destroy past, present and future,
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This, well I’ll talk about this later.
Ultima_Reality said:
seeing as how Whis still could go back in time to a period where it wasn't erased yet,
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This is actually not true at all. Whis went to a completely different timeline. He even said that there would be 2 Mais and 2 Trunks.
Ultima_Reality said:
which in itself just sounds like more evidence that they are not spacetimes on their own rather than evidence that the Dragon Ball Multiverse has a second temporal dimension.
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Second temporal dimension?
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Then why was it rejected?
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It was not rejected, as far as I am aware, unless you care to point me to any particular post in the thread that indicates this. From what I remember, it was just postponed, since big revisions that would affect multiple verses were still banned during the early days of the New Forum.

Nevermind that it wasn't even a CRT, per se, just a call for action, because it just so happened that people didn't understand what exactly Low 2-C entailed, and slapped it on characters that actually didn't qualify at all.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
It was not rejected, as far as I am aware, unless you care to point me to any particular post in the thread that indicates this. From what I remember, it was just postponed, since big revisions that would affect multiple verses were still banned during the early days of the New Forum.

Nevermind that it wasn't even a CRT, per se, just a call for action, because it just so happened that people didn't understand what exactly Low 2-C entailed, and slapped it on characters that actually didn't qualify at all.
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We had a thread about DBS and we rejected it again. Medeus and AKM made this clear
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
But it was rejected. Yesterday. By AKM and DDM.
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I think Ultima meant the revisions for the tier 2 standards in general, not specifically DB

And if so, then I definitely also remember the tier 2 standard revisions also being put on postpone for now but not outright rejected.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
But it was rejected. Yesterday. By AKM and DDM.
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DDM's only arguments against it were things like "Zamasu was appearing in the main timeline, so he must have been merging with spacetime too" (Which still doesn't mean that Universe 7 itself is a spacetime continuum, just that Zamasu's influence was affecting spacetime and thus seeping into other timelines), or "Toriyama explicitly mentions that there are space-time barriers between the 12 universes" (Which I'd like to see scans for), meanwhile AKM didn't even make an argument against it to begin with, as far as I've seen, and just said "Stop overthinking, DB's cosmology is 2-C, and that's all there is to it."

The former could potentially be something, and the latter doesn't hold up at all. So, yeah, I'm bringing up that subject again.
 
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Even then, what Ultima said doesn’t debunk my premise at all. He was wrong about Whis going to the past of a destroyed timeline as I pointed out.

My main issue is that everyone keeps saying “well Goku and Trunks travel back in time to get Zeno” all Goku and Trunks did was travel to a void where everything was destroyed.
Ultima_Reality said:
DDM's only arguments against it were things like "Zamasu was appearing in the main timeline, so he must have been merging with spacetime too" (Which still doesn't mean that Universe 7 itself is a spacetime continuum, just that Zamasu's influence was affecting spacetime and thus seeping into other timelines), or "Toriyama explicitly mentions that there are space-time barriers between the 12 universes" (Which I'd like to see scans for), meanwhile AKM didn't even make an argument against it to begin with, as far as I've seen, and just said "Stop overthinking, DB's cosmology is 2-C, and that's all there is to it).

The former could potentially be something, and the latter doesn't hold up at all. So, yeah, I'm bringing up that subject again.
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I also somewhat agree with this. The refutes for the anti tier 2 side were not really good ones. That doesn’t make the pro 3-A side any better though.
 
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