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How’s it an absurd theory from his imagination when he’s got inverse scans and evidence?
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DB Toei revision
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
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How’s it an absurd theory from his imagination when he’s got inverse scans and evidence?
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Ignore him. That’s his first post on the wiki.
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Bruh, if the anime had done those arcs rather than the crappy manga, Granolah would probably end up being 2-B after a retcon and the anime writers deciding to do more than Toyo has, or will ever do.
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@AKM sama @Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @SamanPatou @Crabwhale @Dominodalek @Vietthai96
What do you think about this?
What do you think about this?
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Where is it stated that Omega's final attack would also include the Other World?
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"そして しまいにゃあ 地球自体が腐ってしまう｡➡ いや それだけではない｡➡やがて 地球から あふれ出したﾏｲﾅｽｴﾈﾙｷﾞｰは➡次々と 周囲の星々をも浸食し➡やがては 銀河全体が腐って なくなってしまうじゃろう｡➡じゃ… じゃあ この界王神界も｡➡うむ｡ 無事では 済まないじゃろうな｡➡た… 大変じゃないですか!➡早く逃げましょう｡"
- "Elder Kaioshin: And, in the end, the world itself will rot. And it won’t stop there. Soon, negative energy overflowing from that world will erode the surrounding celestial bodies until, entire galaxies will rot and disappear."
- "Kibitoshin: Then... then our world will be affected too?!"
- "Elder Kaioshin: Yes. Our world isn’t safe from it either."
Vietthai96
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Well i agree with the cosmology upgrade for Toei continuity
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Assuming galaxy is just a bad translation, when it meant to be either plural as galaxies. Japanese word for "Cosmos" can also mean galaxy or Universe. I suppose this is fine.
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TFW DBGT hits 2-C but DB Super still doesn't have non-Angel people be 2-C
PAIN. AGONY IF YOU WILL. SUFFERING IF YOU MUST INSIST.
thetechmaster36
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Spinoirr
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Still like I said if the anime adapted the Moro and granolah arc after the ToP with the animes scaleing
They would be 2-C via MUI fighting on par with Moro 7-3 merus' powers absorbed
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The only concern I have with this thread is whatever or not the scans from the anime is 100% accurate translations as it is originally in Japanese after all and not to mention not all anime series has the pleasure of having officially translated english subs and that is about it.
Other than that, I will simply watch anyway.
Nullflowerblush
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The thought of base GT Goku being stronger than UI Goku makes my blood boil.
thetechmaster36
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Stefano4444
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I would not have ever expected to see Dragon Ball Anime and GT to be higher Tier 2 compare to Super.
Anyway, while i agree with Buuhan be at least Low 2-C when angry, i'm not sure about 2-C Omega Shenron, due of distances between space-times be incalculable, which don't match with how the Living World and Afterlife are potrayed.
Anyway, while i agree with Buuhan be at least Low 2-C when angry, i'm not sure about 2-C Omega Shenron, due of distances between space-times be incalculable, which don't match with how the Living World and Afterlife are potrayed.
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God. No. Stop with the negativity.
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Must say, I wasn't expecting this sort of thread and would've missed it if it wasn't over the weekends.
So um, where to begin?
"Here Popo states that all of the past present and future are created in this room. The other realms, such as the afterlife, weren’t established yet and the other universes don’t seem to exist, so this statement does seem to imply the past present and future of the living universe."
We see the room later in Dragon Ball Z, and it never distinguishes if the past, present, and future only applies towards the Living World or both. When they originally made it in Dragon Ball, there's a bunch of wriggle room to apply this to other unexplored areas in the future.
Because of them not distinguishing anything period about it, I would refrain from using it as an argument in support to the afterlife having a separate space-time.
"It says "Separated by time and space, the harsh trials that the sleeping father and son must face continue on and on."
I suppose this is fine to use. But, I do recall the narration in Dragon Ball Z being extremely poet with their wordings. Just maybe a slight precaution on that one if memory serves me right.
"Here Shin straight up calls the living universe "the temporal world", which is another straight forward statement."
Both places are still ultimately temporal, so the statement doesn't make all that much sense if you're thinking about it in terms of different Space-Time's. I think 'temporal' here is just being used as a placeholder for things that ends up dying, since the kai's is a world where really its own actual main inhabitants are immortal age wise, and the afterlife as well. All things in the Living World are well, 'temporal' in the sense of they're meant to age and to ultimately die out.
No comment on the size part.
"That place is between space-times, no one can help you from the outside."
If, "Space-times" is actually being used in a plural form, then this is good evidence.
There's one thing I'd like to bring up, so I'm interested in this one being answered. If this whole thing has to do with being in separate Space-Times, how come Goku is able to teleport to both the World of Kais and the Afterlife at his own leisure, yet he can't even teleport inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? I heard a response that the time acceleration has something to do with that, but that shouldn't in any way make a difference in sensing them. Being spatially separated should have nothing to do with it either since it's already stated that all the places above are in different 'global' areas locked off from one another spatially, so why this sudden change of inability?
So um, where to begin?
"Here Popo states that all of the past present and future are created in this room. The other realms, such as the afterlife, weren’t established yet and the other universes don’t seem to exist, so this statement does seem to imply the past present and future of the living universe."
We see the room later in Dragon Ball Z, and it never distinguishes if the past, present, and future only applies towards the Living World or both. When they originally made it in Dragon Ball, there's a bunch of wriggle room to apply this to other unexplored areas in the future.
Because of them not distinguishing anything period about it, I would refrain from using it as an argument in support to the afterlife having a separate space-time.
"It says "Separated by time and space, the harsh trials that the sleeping father and son must face continue on and on."
I suppose this is fine to use. But, I do recall the narration in Dragon Ball Z being extremely poet with their wordings. Just maybe a slight precaution on that one if memory serves me right.
"Here Shin straight up calls the living universe "the temporal world", which is another straight forward statement."
Both places are still ultimately temporal, so the statement doesn't make all that much sense if you're thinking about it in terms of different Space-Time's. I think 'temporal' here is just being used as a placeholder for things that ends up dying, since the kai's is a world where really its own actual main inhabitants are immortal age wise, and the afterlife as well. All things in the Living World are well, 'temporal' in the sense of they're meant to age and to ultimately die out.
No comment on the size part.
"That place is between space-times, no one can help you from the outside."
If, "Space-times" is actually being used in a plural form, then this is good evidence.
There's one thing I'd like to bring up, so I'm interested in this one being answered. If this whole thing has to do with being in separate Space-Times, how come Goku is able to teleport to both the World of Kais and the Afterlife at his own leisure, yet he can't even teleport inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? I heard a response that the time acceleration has something to do with that, but that shouldn't in any way make a difference in sensing them. Being spatially separated should have nothing to do with it either since it's already stated that all the places above are in different 'global' areas locked off from one another spatially, so why this sudden change of inability?
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No keep the negativity you know how VSBW treaths DB
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This is so out of context. Anybody who has seen DB knows that the context here means that it's a simulation room which can create events from a different time (hence the "past, present and future are created") to allow the person's mind to feel as if they have time traveled.
The term has no meaning by itself in the sense of time. Temporal is also used for things relating to worldly as opposed to spiritual affairs. So a god calling the mortal world temporal world makes perfect sense.
Is there an official translation of this? And previews are purely meant to generate hype for the next episode. If this is not in the actual episode, it doesn't count. They are not reliable source of such information.
Now this is the only statement left. And honestly, this just looks like the anime tried adding some spice to the statement without giving any thought to the actual meaning behind it. First of all, it's not a statement meant to give exposition about the different realms. It's simply said to create hype for the next episode.
The original statement in the manga is not that different from it either:
"On Heaven and Earth, Goku and Gohan's training begins!!! Two generations, two kinds of training"
The statement in the anime is just a spiced up version of this. Without any supporting evidence, I am not sold on the reliability of this statement.
It was rejected for good reason. If something is claimed to be universe sized, you can depict it as something very big, at least galactic size, and it would still be believable. But if you are depicting it as just a normal planet on several occasions, then the statement should obviously be discarded. Not drawn to scale is one thing, nobody expects them to draw it to the exact scale either and nobody claims that the planet is the size of mountain. But if you draw a normal planet (of the size of mountain or a star, doesn't matter) and claim that it is universe-sized, we are obviously going to need more than just a throwaway statement in front of all its depictions.
Akira Toriyama drew the same cosmology for anime and manga. Hell, the cosmology was mainly drawn for the anime team only. And there aren't any differences between them, besides that one statement said for the closing of an episode. So I don't see any reason why we should treat them different.
Raw power was used to distort dimensions. The distorted dimensions in turn were going to collapse the universe. The raw power used is unquantifiable. The end result is the destruction of universe. Being able to distort dimensions (via any method) still falls in the hax territory.
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Vietthai96
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AKM
flowery language, hype or spice is not a debunk or a counter argument, you should argue better than that rather than use cheap tactic to debunk something
flowery language, hype or spice is not a debunk or a counter argument, you should argue better than that rather than use cheap tactic to debunk something
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And why does it being a promo of an episode invalidates it? Because "well it's promo thus invalid" is literally not an argument.
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Why did you use the DB wiki instead of providing scans? The only major statements are allowing a person, or a person's mind, to time travel, and that you can't alter past events. None of those statements actually contradict what Popo said.
Temporal: relating to worldly as opposed to spiritual affairs; secular.
This is a fair point ig.
Since I have that japanese text, I'll ask people in the translation request thread. Also, generate hype is such a low tier argument.
Man what? Adding spice is not an argument dude. I also don’t see why exposition is such an importance. Why does one need a full blown complex explanation on what universes are? They're different realms, at least universal in size, can’t be traversed by regular means, and are stated to be separated by time and space. We have verses where the only statement we get is "another universe" and BOOM, 2-C. Why do I have to prove that different dimensions are a multiverse?
Why are you using manga statements for the anime when they're different? You’re also wrong, because nothing is ever stated by the narrator during this scene. Why aren’t you dropping scans either? The only thing you linked in this entire wall of text was a post from another fandom site.
Isn’t that rather counterintuitive? You agree it's not drawn to scale but you disregard the statement because it's drawn as a planet?
Yeah because they’re definitely 100% equal. Are you seriously picking and choosing what’s canon and what’s not? You might as well use statements from the anime for the canon profiles because "there's no difference". Stop being hypocritical.
What? Are you seriously implying that the space would just move by itself? You’re not even making sense.
Read the statements.
Super Buu used his raw power to break through dimensional walls. Piccolo also says it's through raw power as well. Dende states Buuhan will destroy the walls between dimensions. He also says that other dimensions will rush through, with Vegito saying this as well. The daizanshuu states that the distorted space will cover the universe, meaning Buuhan can distort the universe.
Also, keep in mind that Buuhan is breaking dimensional walls to the point where universes would crush each other. Buuhan is straight up tearing away the very walls that keep the dimensions afloat and that’s not universal?
Picture it like this: Buuhan is destroying all of space and time and all that left over matter from the dimensions will crush each other.
Nullflowerblush
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Alternatively, Buuhan is destroying the wall keeping other spaces away from the Living Universe, and once that wall is torn down, their home will be crushed by neighboring ones. You are relying on that Daizenshuu scan when the source is telling a completely different story.
This is just Space Manipulation and Portal Creation.
Buu rips open the wall between dimensions.
Other dimensions flood the Living Universe.
Living Universe gets crushed.
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Explain how universal sized dimension can fit through tiny holes in the universe? If Buuhan can open up holes in spacetime large enough for multiple dimensions to fit through, then that’s absolutely universal+.
I've already shown you it uses past tense and future tense. That's low tier middle school reading comprehension. Stop misreading and making things up by implying the daizenshuu is some kind of different canon or telling lies.
He doesn’t so by ripping that shit open through force. Even if so, his high levels of ki warping the universe would still scale to his AP due to his ki bing a universal energy system.
Also, the holes regenerate after Buu makes them, so there's no evidence that they'll expand by themselves. Which means Buuhan would have to be pumping out constant energy to destroy the universe's spacetime.
Nullflowerblush
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By squeezing through it? What the **** kind of question is that?
Just space, not time. Dende stated Buuhan was warping space.
Also, the holes he generated were itty-bitty.
how, though?
Daizenshuu: "This space would cover the living world and wipe out the universe."
The anime: "Buuhan is bending space and ripping holes in the dimensional barriers separating the Living Universe from other dimensions, like the Room of Spirit and Time and such. If these holes are not closed, then all sorts of alternate dimensions will flow into our own and crush it!"
Y'know the Daizenshuu is not infallible, right? I use the Daizenshuu often, but only when the information presented is not contradictory. This is contradictory. The Daizenshuu claims that Buuhan created a "this" when he used the Outside Space. The anime shows and states that nothing was being created. Buuhan is just opening portals. That is how the ability works; it opens portals.
He isn't warping the universe, though.
He is warping little pockets of space and poking holes in them.
cataracts?
The holes never expand, even while Buu is constantly screaming and powering up. The holes disappearing after Vegito knocked Buuhan down is completely unrelated to this bullshit "Buu has to keep them expanding" narrative you are pedaling.
Again, Buu is not doing shit.
Buu is not threatening the universe. The alternate dimensions he is letting into his home are threatening to destroy the universe.
Am I, like subconsciously writing in a foreign language? It looks like English to me. C'mon, this is elementary shit.
Just read. For the love of God, read.
Don't look. Read. Process. Comprehend. Memorize.
You aren't reading what I'm saying. You're just looking at it.
Confirmation bias, much?
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Actually, when gotenks/buy espace from HTC, wasn't the gole getting smaller overtime? If yes.
1-Buuhan will either create a small portals, then pump it with energy till it's big enough, thus allowing the universes to collapse, overtime
2- or create big portals, thus causing the universe to get through , quickly and instantly.
So which one is it?
Yup found it, it closes in matter of seconds, also Piccolo says he blew a hole in space and time so yeh.
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After further evaluation Buuhan’s feat does look like blatant hax/chain reaction, sorry
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You’re implying the dimensions are already forcing there way into the universe with Buuhan just opening the door. If that’s the case then why didn’t they squeeze through the holes that were opened?
I already put in the OP that the "walls between dimensions" are "separated by spacetime", this isn’t the first time Dragon Ball says space to describe spacetime.
If you agree that he's warping space as well then what is this stigma you’re presenting about the daizenshuu being wrong? By "this space" it obviously means that space that he's distorting. It's literally stated in the first sentence "which caused distortions in space to appear around him." It's just saying that the space he's distorting will cover the universe.
Obviously it didn’t happen yet as it wasn’t shown and the daizenshuu said it was going to happen. So why are you saying it's wrong?
Unrelated? Don’t be dismissive. If the dimensions were forcing their way through the universe, as you say, then the holes wouldn't regenerate at all. Buuhan needs to cover the universe to attain.
At this point I'll just be repeating myself.Again, Buu is not doing shit.
Buu is not threatening the universe. The alternate dimensions he is letting into his home are threatening to destroy the universe.
Am I, like subconsciously writing in a foreign language? It looks like English to me. C'mon, this is elementary shit.
Talking about biased? Ironic.
Mav, I know what you’re doing, and please don’t start.
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@Zamasu_Chan What would be your response to the last part of my comment?
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What specifically?
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@Zamasu_Chan This part:
"There's one thing I'd like to bring up, so I'm interested in this one being answered. If this whole thing has to do with being in separate Space-Times, how come Goku is able to teleport to both the World of Kais and the Afterlife at his own leisure, yet he can't even teleport inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? I heard a response that the time acceleration has something to do with that, but that shouldn't in any way make a difference in sensing them. Being spatially separated should have nothing to do with it either since it's already stated that all the places above are in different 'global' areas locked off from one another spatially, so why this sudden change of inability?"
"There's one thing I'd like to bring up, so I'm interested in this one being answered. If this whole thing has to do with being in separate Space-Times, how come Goku is able to teleport to both the World of Kais and the Afterlife at his own leisure, yet he can't even teleport inside the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? I heard a response that the time acceleration has something to do with that, but that shouldn't in any way make a difference in sensing them. Being spatially separated should have nothing to do with it either since it's already stated that all the places above are in different 'global' areas locked off from one another spatially, so why this sudden change of inability?"
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Idk who said that thing about the acceleration or why they thought that was a good idea, but because it’s stated to be closed off and it’s actual location is unknown.
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@Zamasu_Chan But that's the thing. Yes, it's closed off, but doesn't the guides also state the World of the Kais is closed off as well from the Living World? So, the closing-off portion shouldn't in any way affect him being able to sense ki.
But, isn't the location itself technically within the lookout? It's basically a separate Space-Time that's globally separated within its own domain within the lookout. We know this because when Vegeta destroys it, he always ends back at the Lookout and not someplace else. So, the best analogy for the lookout is the suitcase from the Fantastic Beast.
Thus, sensing still shouldn't be a problem if my understanding of this is correct. Or maybe I'm just overthinking this. I dunno
But, isn't the location itself technically within the lookout? It's basically a separate Space-Time that's globally separated within its own domain within the lookout. We know this because when Vegeta destroys it, he always ends back at the Lookout and not someplace else. So, the best analogy for the lookout is the suitcase from the Fantastic Beast.
Thus, sensing still shouldn't be a problem if my understanding of this is correct. Or maybe I'm just overthinking this. I dunno
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