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This is a thread addressing Dark Samus' profile and its various inaccuracies. It's a bit longer than I would like it to be, but I didn't want to split it, given I've been making a lot of Metroid threads already. Please try to remain civil in discussing it.
Let's start with the really easy one, the travel speed. Samus' profile says "kept pace with Dark Samus, whom would be forced to fly from planet to planet at different edges of the galaxy". However, the Japanese MP2 Q&A says she warped there, instead of flying.
Then we have Dark Samus' (And Samus') scaling to the Leviathans. This is what the profiles say:
Finally, Dark Samus' profile says this: "Became one with an entire planet composed of Phazon, granting her far more power than she had ever achieved before." So, this is referring to Dark Samus taking control of Phaaze, which she does do, but not in such a direct way. Let's start with the easy bit: In her boss battle, Dark Samus frequently heals herself by drawing from Phaaze's energy. There's much more evidence to this, namely the fact that Dark Samus needs the Aurora Unit to control Phaaze and cause it to send its Leviathans out- not the sign of someone who can freely harness its full power. In conclusion, Dark Samus is not "one" with Phaaze, and even if she were, she has still been shown to be unable to wield its full power in battle (Not even when fused with the AU- that just lets her command Phaaze better). Note that she can draw from Phaaze indefinitely, so there isn't an argument that she's getting a massive portion of its power every time, since it'd run out if that was the case.
Moving on to Metroid Prime 3, we get "Likely Mid-Godly. Even as near end-game Dark Samus, she was shown to be potentially able to survive complete essence destruction, and given that her Regeneration scales to the amount of Phazon she has, she has likely reached the ability to completely regenerate from it", with zero scans, of course.
Stamina: "Limitless (The Phazon she's infused with allows her to fight forever without tiring)". There's no source for this, and I'm pretty sure it's just complete fabrication. Away it goes.
Range: "Interstellar with most weapons, akin to Samus". Samus has Stellar range. "Universal (Stated to be capable of corrupting the entirety of the universe had she not been foiled by Samus and the galactic federation. Should be superior to the Leviathan, which has been stated multiple times to be able to launch themselves across the universe.)". Yes, she would have corrupted the universe, overtime, by launching Leviathans across it. And I shouldn't need to explain why doing that isn't a universal range feat, even for the Leviathans.
Finally, Dark Samus is >> Samus by the end of MP2, so that's a neat little boost to the scaling chain.
Feats (Leviathan, Phaaze and Travel Speed)
So quick note, nothing actually changes any tier right now, because all of the tiers have backup feats, but the feats are still wrong and should be removed.Let's start with the really easy one, the travel speed. Samus' profile says "kept pace with Dark Samus, whom would be forced to fly from planet to planet at different edges of the galaxy". However, the Japanese MP2 Q&A says she warped there, instead of flying.
Then we have Dark Samus' (And Samus') scaling to the Leviathans. This is what the profiles say:
- "PED Suit Samus is capable of defeating Leviathan Guardians and overloading a Leviathan's core.": This is true but neither of those scale to the full thing. Guardians are just that: Phazon creatures guarding the Core, and as for those Cores, there's no statement that they're the source of the Leviathan's power or anything, they're just a vital organ of the Leviathan. Hell it might not even be that, We know the core lives after the death of the Leviathan, so it might actually be more of a symbiotic thing, but regardless they just don't scale to the Levs' full AP.
- "Tallon Metroids survived the collision of the Leviathan on Tallon IV within the NA version; in both versions, the Tallon Metroid that would eventually become Dark Samus survived an encounter with the core of the Leviathan and likely killed it.": The first part is non-canon (The NA script hasn't been used since the original version of the game, replaced by the PAL version's[NOTE]. Also, surface area would lower the value of this by a lot), and the latter claim is false, because there is simply no reason to assume that happened. Leviathan Guardians, which Metroid Prime fits the description of perfectly, are nothing other than powerful local creatures that the core mutates with Phazon to have them guard their area- which is exactly what it's doing.
- Something else to note is that Metroid Prime scaling to a Leviathan core would create a massive scaling loop, given MP3 Samus cannot even scratch them without Hypermode. It scaling to it as a normal, to-be-significantly-mutated Tallon IV Metroid is even worse in that regard. Not that it matters much since as mentioned above, cores don't scale to the full thing.
Finally, Dark Samus' profile says this: "Became one with an entire planet composed of Phazon, granting her far more power than she had ever achieved before." So, this is referring to Dark Samus taking control of Phaaze, which she does do, but not in such a direct way. Let's start with the easy bit: In her boss battle, Dark Samus frequently heals herself by drawing from Phaaze's energy. There's much more evidence to this, namely the fact that Dark Samus needs the Aurora Unit to control Phaaze and cause it to send its Leviathans out- not the sign of someone who can freely harness its full power. In conclusion, Dark Samus is not "one" with Phaaze, and even if she were, she has still been shown to be unable to wield its full power in battle (Not even when fused with the AU- that just lets her command Phaaze better). Note that she can draw from Phaaze indefinitely, so there isn't an argument that she's getting a massive portion of its power every time, since it'd run out if that was the case.
Regeneration
Alright, so, High regen is very canon, no need to worry about that. However, the profile says that it "Became At least Low-Godly, was able to regenerate after being dissipated into thin air in a dimension that was destroyed not too long after". That did happen, but we also have a pretty straightforward statement that she regenerated from her particles, which floated into space, which sort of shuts down the whole assumption.Moving on to Metroid Prime 3, we get "Likely Mid-Godly. Even as near end-game Dark Samus, she was shown to be potentially able to survive complete essence destruction, and given that her Regeneration scales to the amount of Phazon she has, she has likely reached the ability to completely regenerate from it", with zero scans, of course.
- The essence bit is referencing her last MP2 scan, which states that Samus' attacks will "disrupt her essence". Now, first off, "disrupt" very much does not equal "complete destruction", which is already grounds to throw away the entire thing.
- Secondly, we also know that she did not get "completely destroyed", given the particles bit regarding the Low-Godly stuff.
- Third off, the idea that "essence" equals "soul" is based on Phazon being capable of affecting Chozo Ghosts (Outside of that souls are straight-up never mentioned in the entire Prime series, to my knowledge), which it can, but the only showing it has of doing that is a Phazon-infested environment rendering said ghosts erratic and aggressive. To go from that to "Phazon-based attacks will destroy your entire soul" is a massive leap, and indeed nobody who is ever exposed to Phazon has to deal with that in the series. The only other times "essence" is mentioned in the series is regarding Metroid Prime's Core Essence, which has very little lore but is seemingly corporeal, and the Alimbics' essence transference, which refers to them turning themselves into psychic energy.
- Finally, even if literally all of the above was fine, the entire reasoning for Mid-Godly can be summarized as "Was previously Low-Godly, and enhanced her regeneration greatly, so she is now Mid-Godly" with zero evidence to back that up, and that alone is a baseless leap of logic that we should not allow.
Other P&A
Alright so, here's the sandbox for Dark Samus' P&A, lots of additions and some removals, let's go through them. I'm not gonna include stuff that's just reworded or changed between one power and another (Like for example if something goes from Shapeshifting to Transformation, I don't think that's worth pointing out)- Metroid Prime: Most notable thing about this one is it gets split between Exoskeleton and Core Essence in P&A, given neither can use the other's abilities. Second most notable thing is Dark Samus also does not inherit its P&A because it's sort of contradicted that she does, Samus can only harm MP's Core Essence with the Phazon Beam, meanwhile even just in her Varia Suit Samus can hurt Dark Samus no problem. Keep in mind that to my knowledge (And I might have just forgotten cause this was a pretty recent realization, but I did go through a good amount of stuff, even Palutena's Guidance lol) we don't really know much about the exact process of Dark Samus' creation besides the fact that it was done with the Phazon Suit and Samus' genetic information, we don't know if it's MP regenerating and gaining power, taking on a different form to survive, making an offspring of some sort- bottom line is I don't think there's a way to safely assert she kept those powers. Doesn't really matter since she exhibits most on her own anyways (She wouldn't inherit the exoskeleton's P&A anyways given that's due to bodily weaponry that is obviously not kept), but y'know.
- REMOVALS
- Regeneration (Low-High. In-scan lore stated that she regenerated from the few left over cells after its fight with Samus): She did, but needed to absorb the Phazon Suit to do that- it's not something it could do in most situations.
- Acid Manipulation (Capable of firing several smaller shots of energy with an acidic effect, or reflecting the current elemental form Metroid Prime is in): I'm not sure why the latter is supposed to be acid but I don't know what the first attack is supposed to be, I think it's the Plasma Beam orbs which indeed have a burning sfx? But that's just heat obviously.
- Attack Reflection (The exoskeleton of the Metroid Prime deflects projectile attacks upon contact): This is a thing but only in NTSC GC Metroid Prime, they no longer deal damage while bouncing back afterwards, and Samus' beams do ricochet off some surfaces so I don't think that's really a P&A.
- Invulnerability (Cannot be damaged through convential attacks, save for ones empowered by Phazon) + Intangibility (Immaterial): It's just durability
- Self-Sustenance: Type 1 is fine but why 2 and 3?
- Large Size Type 1 becomes Type 0. I couldn't find a proper reference for MP's size and it's hard to gauge given it's a first-person game, but I get 8-ish meter tall vibes? IDK, if anyone has better proof either way please do tell.
- Resistance to Absolute Zero (I checked, we don't list the Ice Beam as AZ, IDK why it's there. If I had to guess it's scaling off the Judicator, which makes sense but that is also only near AZ so it's fine to just list as Temp resistance)
- ADDITIONS
- Bodily Weaponry, Breath Attack, Explosion Manipulation and Inorganic Physiology are all obvious
- Thread Manipulation off this thing
- REMOVALS
- Metroid Prime 2: So the big thing I want to talk about now is Dark Samus inheriting Samus' P&A. It doesn't have an explanation on the profile but I think it's due to her being created off the Phazon Suit's genetic information, which let MP read Samus' mind/memories, but that doesn't really mean it could create a 100% perfect copy of Samus, or that it would even inherit her mental abilities. Having read someone's memories doesn't mean you have the ability to do all that they do, we don't give every other Telepath all the intelligence feats of whoever they read the minds of. However, Dark Samus does get to keep all powers associated with the Power/Varia Suit, which is nice. I plan to eventually revise Samus' P&A butwe're using the current one right now, since I'm still not done with that.
- REMOVAL: Intangibility (Spatial): I just don't know what this is from, man.
- ADDITIONS:
- Info Analysis off the phazon suit stuff, Forcefield Manip, a few abilities she'd lose from the Samus thing, Transformation, Incorporeality, Vibration, Danmaku, Stat Amp, Energy Manip, a few resistances to samus' stuff
- Moved the Mindhax stuff here since it's an ability she showcases the moment she regenerates on the space pirates' ships right after mp2, before the big boosts. The bit where she corrupts the hunters stays in 3 though.
- Enhanced Senses off being able to see while she was just a few Phazon particles
- Metroid Prime 3: No big changes here, besides the addition of P&A for the Aurora Unit, which isn't really much.
- ADDITIONS: Mind Manip + Corruption, Multilocation for the shadow clones that appear after you kill Rundas/Ghor/Gandrayda, Creation for summoning big chunks of solid Phazon, better Vibration and Flight, Stat Amp.
Other Things
Intelligence: Scan for the ship thing. It's untrue that DS had never seen a ship before, she had on Aether and she'd be pretty familiar with them anyways through Samus' memories (reminder that Samus designed her ship in MP3), but given it's still significantly improving on a whole ass species' worth of engineers I'd say it's still genius at minimum. She should also probably have higher intelligence (Unsure if EG) when fused with the Aurora Unit.Stamina: "Limitless (The Phazon she's infused with allows her to fight forever without tiring)". There's no source for this, and I'm pretty sure it's just complete fabrication. Away it goes.
Range: "Interstellar with most weapons, akin to Samus". Samus has Stellar range. "Universal (Stated to be capable of corrupting the entirety of the universe had she not been foiled by Samus and the galactic federation. Should be superior to the Leviathan, which has been stated multiple times to be able to launch themselves across the universe.)". Yes, she would have corrupted the universe, overtime, by launching Leviathans across it. And I shouldn't need to explain why doing that isn't a universal range feat, even for the Leviathans.
Finally, Dark Samus is >> Samus by the end of MP2, so that's a neat little boost to the scaling chain.
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