Cumber should be 2-B

[SSJRyu1]

Cumber should be outright 2-B in all keys. Xeno Goku can at least damage and somewhat keep up with Demigra in his own base and especially SSJ form even later when Demigra transforms. In the last battle with Demigra Xeno Goku as SSJ is one of the ones who beats him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5lIugxqDKo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpuzYOvxqpk&vl=e

Realistically anybody relevant in DBH is outright scalable to 2-B by the current ratings on the wiki since even base Xeno Goku is 2-B.

 

[HST_Master]

I agree. In the actual game CC Goku > Xeno Goku.

 

[DMB_1]

Yes, I agree.

Everyone Post-Demigra Arc should be 2-B at this point.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Agreed

 

[Quantu]

This is simple, I agree.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Does Fu have a page?

 

[Quantu]

Yes.

 

[DMB_1]

Yes, he does

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Are Kanba and Cumber the same person?

 

[DMB_1]

Yes. "Kanba" is just Cumber's japanese name.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Okay, part of Fu's AP reasoning in his second key says Kanba, could this cause confusion?

 

[GyroNutz]

Cumber's the more well known name so that should be used

 

[SSJRyu1]

I think were all in agreement. It's clear cut that Cumber > Xeno Goku even as SSJ4, who is 2-B even in base after all, that isn't really disputable. If somebody could update the profile since it's locked that would be good.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I agree with Kanba being tier 2-B in all Keys. Is it possible that SSB goku from DBH is being confused wtih DBS Goku???

 

[DbzDB2]

Cumber doesn't even have a profile though.

 

[KLOL506]

Actually, he does.

 

[DbzDB2]

His profile says that Goku said he's stronger than Beerus and Jiren, but Goku never said that. Goku simply stated that he has a "different kind of strength". That doesn't automatically mean that Cumber is stronger.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Dbz Why would Goku get excited if his battle power wasn't greater than Beerus or Jiren ? That's like saying " Krillin's ki is different from Jiren or Beerus... Boi am I excited ! " . If that was the case , and he was weaker than either, he wouldn't have a reason to be excited. Plus, Vegeta even says afterward " That's why you want to fight him " . Assuming it means a different Ki type / skill / technique is completely ignoring Goku's lust for someone stronger than the previous competition.

 

[AguilaR101]

DBH doesn't really follow the same scaling as the the main canon continuity so I guess this is fine, and it seemed odd tha the Blue Goku from Heroes who supposedly matched Son Goku (Xeno) would be rated just Low 2-C.

 

[DbzDB2]

If Cumber is outright stronger than JIren and Beerus, why the hell didn't Goku just say it in a clear and concise way? All he had to do was say "this guy's strength is greater than Beerus and Jiren", but instead he said that "this guy's strength is different from Beerus and Jiren".

He could have meant that Cumber has an evil type of energy, since Beerus and Jiren aren't evil. Non ultra instinct Goku is still weaker than Beerus and Jiren, and Goku can't go Ultra instinct whenever he wants, so Goku is still technically weaker than Beerus and Jiren. In other words, Cumber doesn't have to be stronger than Beerus/Jiren to excite Goku. Cumber could be only 80% Jiren's strength and that would still be enough to excite him.

Vegeta said that base Broly's energy is "absurd" and both Goku and Vegeta were excited to fight base Broly. Does that mean that base broly is stronger than Jiren and Beerus? Your Krillin example made no sense since Krillin is quintillions of times weaker than Jiren and Beerus, whereas Cumber is definitely in Beerus/Jiren's ballpark, even if he's not as strong/stronger.

 

[KLOL506]

DBH Jiren and Beerus are 2-B, in case anyone doesn't know.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Again Goku would never be excited over someonw w/ just a different type of Ki... It wouldn't be in character at all to assume he did. Vegeta even remarked it was because of strength later on was why Goku waaexcited specifically. It's clear cut if you know the intention behind it.


And you already answered it... " STRENGTH different from Beerus and Jiren, not a KI type different from Beerus and Jiren " . And you know for a fact he wouldn't get excited knowing that someone is weaker than Jiren...

 

[DbzDB2]

Again Goku would never be excited over someonw w/ just a different type of Ki... It wouldn't be in character at all to assume he did. Vegeta even remarked it was because of strength later on was why Goku waaexcited specifically. It's clear cut if you know the intention behind it.

And you already answered it... " STRENGTH different from Beerus and Jiren, not a KI type different from Beerus and Jiren " . And you know for a fact he wouldn't get excited knowing that someone is weaker than Jiren...

So why the hell is Base Broly only 3-A? Vegeta and Goku were excited to fight base Broly, so I guess base Broly should be low 2-C now?

Are you forgetting that goku was in base form when he commented on Cumber's strength? Base Goku is ridiculously weaker than Beerus and Jiren, so someone only 50% Beerus and Jiren's strength is still enough to excite base Goku. Even SSB Goku is significantly weaker than Beerus and Jiren. Only Ultra Instinct Goku is on par with Beerus and Jiren, and Goku can't go ultra instinct whenever he wants. So Base Goku all the way to SSB Goku is still weaker than Beerus and Jiren, so someone weaker than Beerus and Jiren could still be a challenge to Goku, unless he goes Ultra Instinct, which he can't most of the time.


Face it. Goku simply stated that Cumber has a different type of strength compared to Beerus and Jiren. That doesn't automatically mean that Cumber is stronger. That's just your head canon.

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Beerus and Jiren: Low 2-C

Cumber: 2-B

I don't see how this is an argument. We're expected to believe the Cumber, even with Super Saiyan 3 and Golden Oozaru, is weaker than Beerus and Jiren?

 

[DbzDB2]

Beerus and Jiren: Low 2-C
Cumber: 2-B

I don't see how this is an argument. We're expected to believe the Cumber, even with Super Saiyan 3 and Golden Oozaru, is weaker than Beerus and Jiren?

DBH Jiren and Beerus are 2-B, not Low 2-C.

And I'm pretty sure that Cumber with his transformations is stronger than Beerus and Jiren, but I don't think that statement should be used since assuming that Goku meant Cumber is stronger is just head canon.

Cumber's strength is different Ôëá Cumber's strength is greater

 

[SuperDragoon978]

Cumber's strength being "different" being anything other than strength would make the statement pretty darn pointless but that's just me. Otherwise, why mention two of the strongest characters in the series and then compare them to Cumber?

 

[AguilaR101]

Stop conflating the canon version of the characters with their DBH counterparts, DBH is a completely different continuity with radically different scaling and feats.

 

[Melis125]

^

 

[One_Stick_Man]

Agreed. Cumber as SSJ3 could compete with a 2-B SSJ4 Vegito. And even if we said that MUI Goku he was facing was Low 2-C (though really this Goku has nothing to do with DBS Goku), Cumber was defeated prior to this and probably worn out.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Also remember his tail was cut and likely lost a lot of power at that point anyways... Since in the anime he was curbing SSBKK Vegito who should be far stronger than SSJ4.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Either way even base Xeno Goku is is already 2-B for competing with Demigra and he is fodder to base Cumber. Cumber is 2-B through and through regardless if you agree he is above Jiren or not.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with a 2-B Cumber. I will unlock the page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Alright. I have changed the tier to the proper 2-B. Should be good to lock.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Should we close this thread?

 

[SSJRyu1]

Yep. Thanks for helping.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[AKM sama]

Sorry for reopening this but the links to the canon profiles like Beerus, Jiren, Future Trunks and Vegeta should be removed from Cumber's attack potency section. We don't link the canon profiles to the non-canon ones because it causes nothing but confusion due to differences in ratings.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[AKM sama]

I'm done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Feel free to close this thread again.