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Creation Feats
- Thread starter Mariogoods
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Thank you very much for helping out with a guidelines list DontTalk. Please read our guideline page for Mountain and Island sizes for inspiration.
Should we really call it environmental destruction when characters can only create objects but not attack to the same degree though? Separate tiers for when this happens is obviously good, but the name seems inappropriate, since nothing is destroyed.
Should we really call it environmental destruction when characters can only create objects but not attack to the same degree though? Separate tiers for when this happens is obviously good, but the name seems inappropriate, since nothing is destroyed.
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Environmental Creation?
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Jokes aside, I think "4-A with Creation" should work
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Even that would be iffy, since some creations feats are made with not a pebble being hurt.
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Can we add a paragraph on the creation feats on whether creation feats can be translated into attack potency for a specific move or a character in general?
It has been on a case by case basis but it makes no sense a character which can casually create a universe is not impressive in power. More impressive as a space-time continuum or constructs at a higher dimensional level. Some inclusion of general principles is welcome.
It has been on a case by case basis but it makes no sense a character which can casually create a universe is not impressive in power. More impressive as a space-time continuum or constructs at a higher dimensional level. Some inclusion of general principles is welcome.
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This.
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Don'tTalk's Creation Page looks really good, glad we are being harder on Pocket Dimension Feats, because honestly a lot of them have been kinda loose with whether or not they actually created stars
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This seems fine to me.
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I agree with ArmorChoppy and DT
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Out of all the butcherings of my name that might be the most impressive
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Imma slap something
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
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I just woke up. First off I wanna say I support and have supported Hop's idea for quite some time, long before it was Hop's idea.
Secondly, in what way is GBE unusable for things smaller than our moon? I've not heard of any arbitrary lower bound that invalidates smaller celestial bodies.
'pologies if this stuff has been moved past. Regarding the mountains vs island thing, I don't have much in the way of criticisms or contributions as to what, specifically, should be the lower bounds of Mountain/Island/etc level.
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Celestial bodies, sure, I recall agreeing to that some point in this thread.
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What was Hop's idea again?
If GBE can be used for smaller than planetary objects, that may be an idea to use, yes.
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I am referring to this page btw: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mountain_and_Island_level_requirements
Mr. Bambu
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Yes, but you mention something on the order of tectonic plates not having GBE. While obviously we likely couldn't calculate the GBE of such a thing, why specifically do you believe they don't have it?
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I didn't mean they don't have it, any object does I think, I meant to say that we can't calc it yeah
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I think DontTalkDT's page looks very solid.
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Wirh regard towards whether gravitational binding energy or mass-energy conversion energy should be used, I would say, if one truly sommons things into matter from pure energy or even nothingness, the higher of (1) GBE and (2) mass-energy conversion energy should be adopted.
GBE of some small objects can be supremely small relative to their gravitational potential energy or even the energy to convert from energy to mass.
Are you asking should we add a table for the size of mountain or island we can raise by (1) raising soil or granite rock from seabed, (2) raising soil or granite rock from seabed, (3) create a mass of granite soil of such from pure energy, and (4) create a mass of granite rock of such from pure energy?
I can do this relatively easily.
It will be a different subject if we decide to revise the attack potency table at the same time.
GBE of some small objects can be supremely small relative to their gravitational potential energy or even the energy to convert from energy to mass.
This seems a rough guide for the energy level required to destroy an existing mountain or island into flat land.
Are you asking should we add a table for the size of mountain or island we can raise by (1) raising soil or granite rock from seabed, (2) raising soil or granite rock from seabed, (3) create a mass of granite soil of such from pure energy, and (4) create a mass of granite rock of such from pure energy?
I can do this relatively easily.
It will be a different subject if we decide to revise the attack potency table at the same time.
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Isn't creating a single human tier 7 with mass-energy conversion? That's ridicolous
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@DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Promestein @AKM sama
Do you have any evaluations about the discussion so far?
Do you have any evaluations about the discussion so far?
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But think about it.
1. We also need to consider counter feats. E.g. if one can summon a human from pure energy, but gets defeated by a person who can barely create a Richter Magnitude 5 earthquake shock wave (at 476.879063098 Tons of TNT), then likely the summoning feat yield cannot be used or just be combat applicable at all.
2. How things are actually summoned should be considered case by case. Say, one fictional mage can form rock golems, water golems, lava golems, ice golems, grass golems, undead bone skeleton golems, pure energy golems etc. The energy required to pick up from picking different matter from the ground to form one into being can be very different. Also it is different to make an ice summon by picking existing ice from the ground, freezing nitrogen in the air, or freezing sea water into ice constructs. But strangely they are considered "equal" in fiction, depending on actual context.
3. And I have not yet tapped into the creation of time or just a small-sized 4-dimensional construct. Not the general "space-time continuum the size of a universe" or "n-dimensional construct" but a pocket dimension that somehow includes time. May be I am not even the best one to talk things but other idea input are welcome.
4. GBE and mass-energy conversion will still be handful in referring to feats in creating planets, stars, solar systems and galaxies. Oh and GBE can be extremely large for large masses like stars. And in fact supernovae has an instant energy output larger than a star GBE or energy emitted by our good old sun in 1 second. It will still up to everyone to decide which method to calculate what.
These stem from basic principles that are applied in or derived from other feat calculation and adoption.
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I agree, I'm fine with using mass-energy but only in the case where that's explicitly what happens.
Besides, if summoning humans is a common thing in a verse, but that verse is otherwise 9-B, supporters absolutely WILL claim the 9-B feats are stupid PIS and that the author doesn't understand the power scale they're writing- when it is the opposite, really.
Besides, if summoning humans is a common thing in a verse, but that verse is otherwise 9-B, supporters absolutely WILL claim the 9-B feats are stupid PIS and that the author doesn't understand the power scale they're writing- when it is the opposite, really.
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We only use Mass-Energy conversion if it's explicitly stated to convert mass into pure energy or if mass energy conversion was the method.
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Which is why we should list out at least a list of guidelines of creation feats that should be calculable in particular ways instead of straight out assuming them as whatever their pulverisation values are. But in case they are comparable to some destruction characters who can destroy things at a clearly defined and calculated value, there is still a way of ascertaining their attack potency yields.
Say, we have a creation god who can make one punch with a shockwave which can miraculously restore the Earth surface which is destroyed (say surface wipe in one go) previously by a destruction god. If the attack potency of the destruction god can be calculated, then the creation god will be comparable to the destruction god, instead of assuming the restoration feat or recreation feat having the same yield as the Earth surface wiping feat the or recreating them.
Oh now I have raised another topic: Restoration feat should be different from a creation feats and yields, while calculable, should be different from a creation feat and again should be viewed on a case by case basis.
...... So what is actually agreed upon here and what addition/deletion/change we have to apply? Say, do we need to add an ability called restoration and have it different from the creation ability or creation feat?
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I think the only thing left here to do is mostly to address the mass-energy conversion stuff mentioned by Jasonsith
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Necro bump but I believe this particular topic has been dealt with in this thread
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Let @DontTalkDT decide.
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I think this can be closed?
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Alright, I guess we can close this then.
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