You need to convince me the internal part of a cooling feat renders the external part incalculable in terms of the amount of cooling.
The question is "why would the mechanic make us unable to judge the visible effects it has", yes? In which case this was gone into in-depth a
lot of times.
Cooling is a domino effect, you do
something, which causes the energy in a bunch of atoms/molecules to go MIA. The reason why this cannot be calculated is because the "something" and the heat changing are not one and the same. As laid out in the OP, you can cause stuff like cooling items or condensing clouds for a far,
far lesser amount of energy than the heat change of the system we are observing. If it's the erasing energy theory some have put forward, then putting a tier would be like trying to calculate e=mc2 of a human body's mass for erasing a person as if physics even remotely applied to the feat. Moving the energy away or absorbing it isn't directly scalable either, because if it's done with a random superpower, then it does not scale to anything else, and if its done through some form of energy like mana, then there's absolutely no way to tell how much energy you need to move heat from one atom to another.
And so on.
I'd summarize my positions as:
1). We cannot throw out the ability to calculate the energy change associated with cooling feats, even if it doesn't scale to AP.
Such a calculation is meaningless, as we have no way to know how such heat even relates to the power who performs the feat.
It's high school level math that lets us establish a hierarchy for cold hax vs. cold resistance for debates, at the very least.
No? Just because Todoroki can make dozens of meters of ice, he can't suddenly focus all that freezing power on a focal point and make something hundreds of times colder than he normally would. I don't think I know of even one person with ice powers who freezes linearly better with how little he is freezing at once.
If one character freezes a sea at minus 5 degrees, and another shrugs off colds all the way up to -272 degrees, the cold won't suddenly stack up.
Instead, the obvious thing to do is the same as with heat, simply look at how cold the freezing is, with celsius or other units of measurement for heat.
That outward effect is combat relevant and can be mathematically ballparked. There's no reason to gouge our own eyes wrt these very simple calcs because we are worried about fantasy mechanisms in fantasy settings.
There is zero reasons to list it in AP instead of putting it in the P&A sections or the techniques section.
And this take also directly contradicts both other takes for keeping heat stuff. And at this point, I have to point out that if everyone on the heat side disagrees with everything besides "we should keep rating it", then that shouldn't be taken as "votes" for the same side. And you realize that with verses where magic is a thing, this directly does scale to the AP of other spells? Like ******* 7-C Dumbledore.
2). The mechanism that leads to a cooling effect, unless explicitly detailed in the story, is irrelevant.
It is not, as the effects we see cannot be assumed to be the same as the energy released or expended to make the event happen.
We can make arguments about lifting being different from AP because we have scientific knowledge from outside the story relevant to the feat.
This is also a false equivalency. Lifting is far more directly tied to AP than freezing is to any energy used by the person without specifics given by the story. The idea of someone with Class P lifting strength not having tier 6ish AP at least is ridiculous.
In the absence of that, the feat still happens, and unless its EFFECTS completely escape physics, we should try to calc the effects for scaling purposes.
These effects are unimportant. They achieve no kinetic impact or destruction, and the power to decrease energy in an area does not need to be listed in the AP section. And again, we do not know how much actual energy is put into such feats from the user of the power, so scaling them to other spells/abilities with the same energy system is still wrong.
For example:
-Completely escapes physics: trying to calc KE for an object moving ftl.
The wiki actually does so, as it did for fire fighters. When I tried to downgrade that, I was told that if the verse states FTL generates more kinetic energy, then we should just apply standard KE calc and not make it too complicated.
I believe it has been since downgraded as the story reveals they were moving only at relativistic speeds, but the precedent for applying KE to FTL is still there.
-Does not completely escape physics: a creature with non-human physiology lifting a boulder. Look here, the mechanism is unknown, but I can still calculate the energy change of the boulder.
You can calculate the energy directly released by the creature's own muscles, and apply that energy to other tasks performed by the same muscles. Such is not true with freezing.
3). There is no problem with creating a power-category for people who can heat and cool things at will. Just because we don't know the exact mechanism, doesn't mean we can't classify those abilities. The wiki does this all the time.
I don't get this point? Ice, fire, heat and such are abilities already. I do not see why this should mean we need to point these abilities out in the AP section if it doesn't scale to the amount of Attack Potency they can actually output?
