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Cool Ways to Buff a Verse: Dragon Ball
- Thread starter Amexim
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Seeing as how it's based off Chinese Mythology and etc,i'd prob incorporate more chinese elements and go full wukong.
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I think having Hunter x Hunter-style special abilities and categories of powers/characters would be sick in Dragon Ball!
We all have this idea that Bleach is just Dragon Ball with Swords, but Bleach at least sometimes makes you think about the fights a little bit, but this would make Dragon Ball into Bleach without Swords.
Actually, give characters weapons too! That would be awesome. And! Elemental affinities, like in Naruto.
We all have this idea that Bleach is just Dragon Ball with Swords, but Bleach at least sometimes makes you think about the fights a little bit, but this would make Dragon Ball into Bleach without Swords.
Actually, give characters weapons too! That would be awesome. And! Elemental affinities, like in Naruto.
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" We all have this idea that Bleach is just Dragon Ball with Swords, but Bleach at least sometimes makes you think about the fights a little bit, but this would make Dragon Ball into Bleach without Swords."
I've never heard of a comparison between the two seeing as they have nothing in common.
I've never heard of a comparison between the two seeing as they have nothing in common.
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TFS!Vegeta: I liked that show better when it was called Yu Yu Hakusho. And I liked that show better when it was called DRAGON BALL Z!Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Stefano4444
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Maybe make prequels about the past of other characters like Master Roshi, Vegeta, Shin/Majin Buu, Jiren, Beerus.Amexim said:
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Vegeta:An Emitter.Can shoot multiple ki blast that, if dodged, go into a portal that leads into another portal close to the enemy. It'd make it so his temper tantrums actually hit someone. It'd also be REALLY good for Final Flash.
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Give them EE that's not literally the worst in all of fiction
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I think DB should simply show new opponents from the demon realm. Make their aura have a passive mind manipulation ability that can affect thousands or something. Have Goku and the rest resist this easily and have them fght existence erasing demons that negate Low-Godly or something. Have Goku die, and come back due to pure will after being EE'd or do it for Vegeta. Introduce infinite timelines in multiple statements from multiple sources. Have Broly in the upcoming movie threaten to destroy the multiverse with said infinite timelines. Give multiple statements of GP and Zeno on a higher dimension or something,I'unno.
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@Saibaman You realise EE already negates low godly right?
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... What?Hl3 or bust said:
EE on here is just EE. Power levels has nothing to do with it. People that resisted Hakai in the show are given EE Resistance; anyone that says "Hakai doesn't work on weaker beings" needs to prove it.
And no, Goku and gang resisting Hakai Ball is not the same as the Full-On Hakai as Sidra made it so a mook could use it and Toppo was holding back as to not just insta-kill Freeza.
Stefano4444
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By making canon spin off relative to certain characters like Roshi, Beerus and Vegeta, there is a chance of having impressive feats that could upgrade the overall verse and more.Amexim said:
At example, with Master Roshi we can have a spin off about him when he was young and was still a student under Master Mutaito, here we can show that even characters that had a power level lower than 100 can be extremely powerful like having them performing:
- Mountain level to Island level feats with Massively Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic+ feats.
Also there can be any form confermation or debunk like:
- Power Levels do exist and that there are exponential.
- That Ki Control matter and that without it someone with a greater power level can be easily beaten by someone with a lower power level.
This could explain why the Farmer with a power level of 2 cannot destroy mountains.
- That Ki can be used to enhanced the physical attributes of the user to match the power of his own Ki Attacks.
- That the AoE of Ki Attacks can be alterated so to reduce the DC, while having the same AP.
- That characters can move as fast as their own Ki Attacks, and that Ki Attacks get not only more powerful and also faster the stronger the user become.
And that could happen just in one Saga.
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A lot. A lot could make them stronger. Like someone like Krillin remembering he has Solar Flare that rarely doesn't work and Destructo Disks.Amexim said:
Or Tienshinhan going back to the glory days where he could use Kiai to undo Ki attacks, could likely shoot Dodon Rays (you know? that thing that was said to be more powerful and easier to use than Kamehameha...?) from his extra arms even as he's fighting, being allowed to split without losing so much power because normal humans deserve something.
Pretty much, remember the tools many of the characters have, for starters, and making them relevant after PLs killed most contributions from anyone not a Saiyan even before Ssj.
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I mean, i'm pretty sure it wouln't be brought up in every Beerus match if it was falseAkreious said:
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How to buff Dragon Ball?
Well, for starters, make ki a more versatile power system: it would be able to be used in various different ways, such as manipulating the elements of creation, manipulating minds, necromancy and some level of soul manipulation, and even Low-Godly regen to some extent, such as regenerating only from your ki.
In addition, associating someone's level of powers with resistances, which is something that verses like Digimon do: For example, ki in its actual lore is often associated with someone's energy, mind, soul etcetera, so it would grant to any user a level of protection against abilities like soul, mind, elemental manipulation etcetera, depending on the user's amount of ki.
Of course, this should not exclude the fact that some characters would have their own special way of using ki, which would grant completely different and exclusive abilities, such as transmutation, body control, ki absorption, space/time manipulation, etcetera.
It unironically fits well for the type of verse that Dragon Ball is.
Well, for starters, make ki a more versatile power system: it would be able to be used in various different ways, such as manipulating the elements of creation, manipulating minds, necromancy and some level of soul manipulation, and even Low-Godly regen to some extent, such as regenerating only from your ki.
In addition, associating someone's level of powers with resistances, which is something that verses like Digimon do: For example, ki in its actual lore is often associated with someone's energy, mind, soul etcetera, so it would grant to any user a level of protection against abilities like soul, mind, elemental manipulation etcetera, depending on the user's amount of ki.
Of course, this should not exclude the fact that some characters would have their own special way of using ki, which would grant completely different and exclusive abilities, such as transmutation, body control, ki absorption, space/time manipulation, etcetera.
It unironically fits well for the type of verse that Dragon Ball is.
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look, actually some of the skills you quoted really already exist in dragon ball, and other you just do not consider for not being demonstrated, but warever
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That ttoo. Pretty much Ki allows a bunch of incredulous shit to be possible quite easily, it's just brushed over most of the time.Neo hakkaishin said:
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Master Roshi already showed us how. The youngest generation of Earth martial artists consist of prodigies but while they are prodigies they lack the raw experience, wisdom and common sense to be true masters. They also are quite poor at training and working together. For example: Piccolo with the Kaio-Ken would have torn Super Perfect Cell apart, would have defeated Buu and would (with God Ki) be capable of pushing Beerus harder than Goku did.
We didn't see characters take their abilities to logical conclusions until the Tournament of Power such as Krillin having telekinetic destruco disks, an AoE Solar Flare and Frieza having homing Death Beams and a Death Beam cage not to mention Goku doing things such as energy mines, disks and lasers.
Roshi himself has a diverse and dangerous array of techniques that (for whatever reason) have never been taught to other characters (barring Kamehameha and Mafuba). If he taught the other earthlings to use the power-weighting technique, lullaby technique, electric shock surprise, etc. They would all be far more dangerous and diverse fighters.
To be blunt, Dragon Ball characters lack common sense and are pretty stupid with their pride and arrogance. Much of the hax in the universe could be replicated by another character if they simply taught one another. For example, why not teach EVERYONE the Fusion Dance? Couldn't somebody else learn Hit's techniques? What about Dyspo's technique? Maybe more characters could learn Mushin and eventually Ultra Instinct? What about God Ki? The Dragon World already has PLENTY of hax. The characters just aren't learning said hax for one reason or another.
So how do you buff the Dragon World? Simple. Have the characters develop or learn hax that is inspired by hax already present in the universe. There are many, MANY cases of power multiplication, time manipulation, space manipulation, mental manipulation, telekinesis, healing, Regenerationn...That the current cast could learn. There are even cases of elemental manipulation, barriers, invisible attacks, size manipulation...I could go on and on.
If I had any control over the franchise I would probably make it so Goku realises that with Jiren and Broly they have reached the pinnacle of what power can actually do for them (Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, etc.) and that he needs to take cues from Whis and the other angels that technique and experience are vital to achieve true mastery. Growing in power does very little for him now as he has reached the pinnacle of power, he just needs to master the technical and tactical applications of his abilities. This leads in to more complex and exciting battles and training arcs where most of the relevant characters are at the same tier (God of Destruction) but their skill levels wildly vary with each character having their own niche or development as a martial artist.
Goku could, for example, master Instant Transmission by training under Jimeze and incorporate it into his Ultra Instinct technique (which he masters). Vegeta could focus on something such as power amplification (Emotional-based) with him pushing his powerful techniques even further. Frieza would combine more of his telekinesis with his existing techniques to create death traps built on brutality and cunning. Gohan would be a jack-of-trades that ends up studying under Roshi or someone along those lines...using his intellect to develop increasingly advanced and practical applications of ki.
I could keep going but this is already wordy as hell and my point has been made.
We didn't see characters take their abilities to logical conclusions until the Tournament of Power such as Krillin having telekinetic destruco disks, an AoE Solar Flare and Frieza having homing Death Beams and a Death Beam cage not to mention Goku doing things such as energy mines, disks and lasers.
Roshi himself has a diverse and dangerous array of techniques that (for whatever reason) have never been taught to other characters (barring Kamehameha and Mafuba). If he taught the other earthlings to use the power-weighting technique, lullaby technique, electric shock surprise, etc. They would all be far more dangerous and diverse fighters.
To be blunt, Dragon Ball characters lack common sense and are pretty stupid with their pride and arrogance. Much of the hax in the universe could be replicated by another character if they simply taught one another. For example, why not teach EVERYONE the Fusion Dance? Couldn't somebody else learn Hit's techniques? What about Dyspo's technique? Maybe more characters could learn Mushin and eventually Ultra Instinct? What about God Ki? The Dragon World already has PLENTY of hax. The characters just aren't learning said hax for one reason or another.
So how do you buff the Dragon World? Simple. Have the characters develop or learn hax that is inspired by hax already present in the universe. There are many, MANY cases of power multiplication, time manipulation, space manipulation, mental manipulation, telekinesis, healing, Regenerationn...That the current cast could learn. There are even cases of elemental manipulation, barriers, invisible attacks, size manipulation...I could go on and on.
If I had any control over the franchise I would probably make it so Goku realises that with Jiren and Broly they have reached the pinnacle of what power can actually do for them (Goku, Vegeta, Frieza, etc.) and that he needs to take cues from Whis and the other angels that technique and experience are vital to achieve true mastery. Growing in power does very little for him now as he has reached the pinnacle of power, he just needs to master the technical and tactical applications of his abilities. This leads in to more complex and exciting battles and training arcs where most of the relevant characters are at the same tier (God of Destruction) but their skill levels wildly vary with each character having their own niche or development as a martial artist.
Goku could, for example, master Instant Transmission by training under Jimeze and incorporate it into his Ultra Instinct technique (which he masters). Vegeta could focus on something such as power amplification (Emotional-based) with him pushing his powerful techniques even further. Frieza would combine more of his telekinesis with his existing techniques to create death traps built on brutality and cunning. Gohan would be a jack-of-trades that ends up studying under Roshi or someone along those lines...using his intellect to develop increasingly advanced and practical applications of ki.
I could keep going but this is already wordy as hell and my point has been made.
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The first bits are pretty much my point.CryoTheMayo said:
The second bit, the entire paragraph, is pretty much the solidification of my grievances with Dragon Ball as a fighting series. Is like a nigh-constant **** tease of cool gimmicks and potential hijinks in battle... then a saiyan gets a new form, his PLs get higher than the bad guys and they pummel them into nonexistence with a dash of light shows with some beam attacks.
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Pretty much, yeah. Early Z basically took Pre-Z chewed it up then defecated it a day later. The entire Nappa vs Z-Fighters battle is where strategy and thought went to die in favour of overwhelming power and genetics. The Buu Saga is where they brought back some of the charm and wackiness of martial arts but it was ultimately dumbed down to 'Durr I'm the stronger one! I has the biggerer flashierst big ball!'. GT took this and flanderised the hell out of it, making the series MORE reliant on power rather than less. Super, ironically, had more techniques, hax and development of martial arts than GT and arguably Z but the power scaling is so out of whack that it isn't even remotely feasible for the weaker characters to be relevant outside of mook battles.
I think if they were to continue developing from the Tournament of Power that they could easily maintain the relevance of Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Piccolo, 18 and 17 by focusing on how they advanced their techniques and abuse their personal abilities but it would be very difficult unless they give them mad hax or asspulled them to GoD level with the time chamber. I mean, imagine a GoD-tier Krillin spamming destructo disks? That's just horrifying. Hell, an equalised Piccolo would be nigh-impossible to defeat let alone an equalised Majin Buu.
I think if they were to continue developing from the Tournament of Power that they could easily maintain the relevance of Krillin, Tien, Roshi, Piccolo, 18 and 17 by focusing on how they advanced their techniques and abuse their personal abilities but it would be very difficult unless they give them mad hax or asspulled them to GoD level with the time chamber. I mean, imagine a GoD-tier Krillin spamming destructo disks? That's just horrifying. Hell, an equalised Piccolo would be nigh-impossible to defeat let alone an equalised Majin Buu.
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Super doesn't really use strategy better:
Yes, it introduces more hax, but it's always something like "I am constantly developing/getting stronger", which forces the protagonist to get even stronger so that it defeats the entire point.
Also, when a strategy is used, it tends to actually fail most of the times (except against weaker opponents).
Yes, it introduces more hax, but it's always something like "I am constantly developing/getting stronger", which forces the protagonist to get even stronger so that it defeats the entire point.
Also, when a strategy is used, it tends to actually fail most of the times (except against weaker opponents).
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I think it does use strategy better.
I would refer to Goku abusing Frieza's stamina, Goku vs Hit Round 2, Krillin vs Gohan, Krillin vs Goku and numerous Tournament of Power fights that all blow GT out of the water. Some of the genuine thought and work in Super fights even surpass most of Z. Of course, Super has horrible issues with power scaling and constant power-ups but its strongest characters tend to be genuinely skilled fighters that use a diverse array of techniques. Hell, I would argue the only 'main' antagonists that are bland and based on overpowering their opponent would be Jiren and Toppo. Every other antagonistic opponent (to memory) are genuinely intelligent or put more effort than just "I grew stronger in the five seconds you beat me up". At least more braindead characters like Caulifa and Kale actually display...you know...teamwork and tactical combinations. It's all very low tier but certainly more than GT and arguably Z.
I would refer to Goku abusing Frieza's stamina, Goku vs Hit Round 2, Krillin vs Gohan, Krillin vs Goku and numerous Tournament of Power fights that all blow GT out of the water. Some of the genuine thought and work in Super fights even surpass most of Z. Of course, Super has horrible issues with power scaling and constant power-ups but its strongest characters tend to be genuinely skilled fighters that use a diverse array of techniques. Hell, I would argue the only 'main' antagonists that are bland and based on overpowering their opponent would be Jiren and Toppo. Every other antagonistic opponent (to memory) are genuinely intelligent or put more effort than just "I grew stronger in the five seconds you beat me up". At least more braindead characters like Caulifa and Kale actually display...you know...teamwork and tactical combinations. It's all very low tier but certainly more than GT and arguably Z.
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Most of the fights in which strategy is used are ruined by either one of the characters being heavily suppressed, both of them are too weak to matter in the show, or the strategy not working at all.
And the ones in which strategy actually works end with Goku still powering up and blowing his opponent away.
And the ones in which strategy actually works end with Goku still powering up and blowing his opponent away.
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Yes, that's true. But that doesn't nullify the existence of said strategies and their effects. Krillin still beat Gohan. Krillin still (by all means) beat SS Goku. It won't change that Hit is a character built on pure technical ability that manages to be among the highest level characters in the show. It won't change that Frost defeated Goku, Piccolo and nearly Vegeta. You are correct that many strategies are nullified by Goku just powering up (See Goku just powering up to beat Hit TWICE and...well, the entire existence of Jiren or even Vegeta beating Toppo) but I feel that ignoring these strategies and battles would be foolhardy. They still embellish the very thing that would buff the Dragon World (as is the thread topic) and they should be recognised and praised.
I just hope the Broly movie doesn't consist of roidrage and simple overpowering and I hope they continue focusing on skill, technique and strategy and that they place that thought and interest into the main battles of each arc. It would be a shame if these hints of actual thought were to be wiped away by the next arc.
I just hope the Broly movie doesn't consist of roidrage and simple overpowering and I hope they continue focusing on skill, technique and strategy and that they place that thought and interest into the main battles of each arc. It would be a shame if these hints of actual thought were to be wiped away by the next arc.
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"How to make DBS stronger"
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I mean. I don't think Goku shouldn't train to get stronger anymore, nor do I think everyone should be on the same tier. I feel like doing everything you say @Lance and Cryo but preserving the power escalation is cool. Because we haven't gotten Outerversal Dragon Ball yet, so training power along with technique is perfect.
I agree that the old characters should be more relevant in power. I feel like it would be cool to see the other cast members being ranked in power together to be a squad like the Ginyu Force was. They had this balance of power and abilities that maintained relevance between all the members, but still preserved the top tier characters as the top tier. Basically, make Krillen and Roshi and crew Multi-Galaxy+++++, and let Goku be where he is, and preserve that gap until we get Complex Multiversal Z-Fighters, who can try to mess with a 25% Base Goku or so, but have max power Goku be Outerversal+ or something ridiculous.
I agree that the old characters should be more relevant in power. I feel like it would be cool to see the other cast members being ranked in power together to be a squad like the Ginyu Force was. They had this balance of power and abilities that maintained relevance between all the members, but still preserved the top tier characters as the top tier. Basically, make Krillen and Roshi and crew Multi-Galaxy+++++, and let Goku be where he is, and preserve that gap until we get Complex Multiversal Z-Fighters, who can try to mess with a 25% Base Goku or so, but have max power Goku be Outerversal+ or something ridiculous.
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Like, everyone in the U7 Tournament of Power Team + Yamcha, Gotenks, and Majin Buu, should be the squad for the rest of the series. All of them should have their times to shine and the villains shouldn't always be just one guy. Like One Piece does it with Zoro, Luffy, and Sanji.
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It's a bit sad when I realize I almost wanna hug Toyotaro for what he did with Master Roshi and punch him for deciding to do it against Jiren of all people but, meh .
Goku's old, human master way past his prime reminds him by first-hand experience what it truly means to pursue martial arts and what he has been training to achieve all those years, the grounded basics of all he pounded into him and Krillin and that he refined later beyond "if it doesn't work, punch way harder".
An actual reminder of all the teacher's Goku has and the essence of Ultra Instinct, the pinnacle of martial arts or simply of fighting as your very body grasps without any conscious thought what is the best move.
I'd say that kind of spirit is the healthiest thing you could inject in the series if applied well, at least in a thematic and not super systematic "do this and that to make much cooler powers" way. There's a reason people like HxH's deeply personal nen system as you deal with Hatsu. An ability doesn't even need to be combat-related, it should reflect you as best it can. From this, I think it could naturally progress to buffing the series, plus much more organically at that.
Goku's old, human master way past his prime reminds him by first-hand experience what it truly means to pursue martial arts and what he has been training to achieve all those years, the grounded basics of all he pounded into him and Krillin and that he refined later beyond "if it doesn't work, punch way harder".
An actual reminder of all the teacher's Goku has and the essence of Ultra Instinct, the pinnacle of martial arts or simply of fighting as your very body grasps without any conscious thought what is the best move.
I'd say that kind of spirit is the healthiest thing you could inject in the series if applied well, at least in a thematic and not super systematic "do this and that to make much cooler powers" way. There's a reason people like HxH's deeply personal nen system as you deal with Hatsu. An ability doesn't even need to be combat-related, it should reflect you as best it can. From this, I think it could naturally progress to buffing the series, plus much more organically at that.
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Honestly if Dragon Ball somehow established people being able to shrug off anything from people below their power, they'd fare a lot better. Almost like mini kharn, in that they can force opponents into regular combat then dominate with skill, speed, and AP.
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One way they could do that is if they have an arc revolving around magic (which is completely separate from ki) and it's shown that raw Ki can completely negate and even ignore magic. That would essentially confirm that Ki > Hax and would mean only people with AP above a DB character could actually beat them.
This would mean only people above Tier 2-C would be capable of defeating UI Goku, Broly, Jiren, Vegeta, Beerus, The GoDs, etc. Which would be an utterly absurd buff.
This would mean only people above Tier 2-C would be capable of defeating UI Goku, Broly, Jiren, Vegeta, Beerus, The GoDs, etc. Which would be an utterly absurd buff.
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