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Cooking like Saffron! A Super Yummy Paper Mario CRT!

Mephistus

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Rebooting this thread upon request with input for the given proposals.

Immeasurable Strength / Infinite Speed ratings for the Chaos Heart users:

When Dimentio creates his ultimate form using Luigi and the Chaos Heart, his dialogue before gameplay starts gives me the impression that he would use immense power, without relying on the Void as a separate entity from him, but including the Chaos Heart's power to destroy all realities, which involved pulling in entire dimensions and space-time continuums. Upon defeat, Dimentio even asked: "How could I have lost with the power of Luigi and the Chaos Heart...[?]", implying that he was using the power of the Chaos Heart in a way that was relevant to the battle and that he thought would've made it impossible for him to lose, yet the heroes still had benefited from the power boost from the Pure Hearts during the fight. This indicated by Tippi's tattle saying that the body has immense power. This action should be something that benefitted Count Bleck from merging with the Chaos Heart's power as well. If by having the same physical ability / power of the Void was granted, they could potentially also move/pull/lift across an infinite distance as well with that force.

Infinite Strength ratings for the Pure Heart users:

As a separate angle, the Ancients (>9800 Bowser IQ) held the belief of how powerful the Pure Hearts power makes someone comparably infinitely powerful in magnitude for strength, to the point that no matter how strong the forces are fighting against it are, they would not triumph against it.

The Heroes can restrain Count Bleck with Thoreau once Pure Hearts amped; showing less comparability between them in strength with their respective amps.

Infinite Speed ratings for the Pure Hearts & Chaos Heart users:

Count Bleck searched for Lady Timpani throughout the whole multiverse once his father cursed her. This is presented in Bleck's own confession that he never gave up searching for her...but never found her and had the knowledge to tell Nastasia before with a certainty that Timpani wasn't in any world, supporting the conclusion that he had at least travelled to and searched within them all before not finding her at all (not even a boo/ghost of her remained which makes sense since even by that point she wouldve been a Pixl and lost her memory unlike a boo/ghost) and finally grabbing the Dark Prognosticus and knowing his (possible) future, even relating his idea was he got to that point because he wanted to destroy all these worlds because they took her away. Being that there are infinite universes existing in the multiverse and the singular worlds in the sense of the story get treated as being universes, this would mean that he had been capable of moving at infinite speed in order to have done this feat within the time that the Ancients had a section of their tribe split off into the Tribe of Darkness and by that event the Tribe of Darkness was the last group (before Bleck) that held possession of the Dark Prognosticus with it being taken from the Pixl Queen (at most taking 2,000 years prior to the start of Super Paper Mario's events for Bleck's search to be finalized if Bleck was capable of searching within every world). Count Bleck fighting the Pure Heart heroes necessitates a speed boost is occurring as they able to physically react and attack him, keep up with him.

Power Nullification for Bleck and Super Dimentio for forcefields and attack reflection with the Void:
being able to bypass the Block Block (normally supposed to make the user “invincible”) and being able to ignore Barry’s reflection ability upon contact, which intentionally works on enemy projectiles in the game.

Barry has a self-evident & stated forcefield effect of reflecting projectile attacks.

The Block Block also reflects projectiles passively with the same animation as Barry (random game examples shown uses a yellow Magiblot's spell getting booped back to sender).
 
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I currently hate the way SPM is treated in the wiki, so let's dig into this.
Really? It just gives me the impression that he's going to use the Chaos Heart's power, Void and all.
Upon defeat, Dimentio even asked: "How could I have lost with the power of Luigi and the Chaos Heart...[?]", implying that he was using the power of the Chaos Heart in a way that was relevant to the battle and that he thought would've made it impossible for him to lose, yet the heroes still had benefited from the power boost from the Pure Hearts during the fight.
He did, in the form of the invulnerability thing.
This indicated by Tippi's tattle saying that the body has immense power.
No it isn't?
This action should be something that benefitted Count Bleck from merging with the Chaos Heart's power as well.
Count Bleck also has a barrier which fulfills that description, but keep in mind that Paper Luigi, and by extension Super Dimentio, is "the ideal host for the power of the Chaos Heart," and so what applies to Super Dimentio might not apply to Count Bleck.
If by having the same physical ability / power of the Void was granted, they could potentially also move/pull/lift across an infinite distance as well with that force.
If. There's nothing that indicates that.
As a separate angle, the Ancients (>9800 Bowser IQ) held the belief of how powerful the Pure Hearts power makes someone comparably infinitely powerful in magnitude for strength, to the point that no matter how strong the forces are fighting against it are, they would not triumph against it.
Sounds to me like just some Fate Manipulation shenanigans, and not necessarily physical strength.
The Heroes can restrain Count Bleck with Thoreau once Pure Hearts amped; showing less comparability between them in strength with their respective amps.
I guess that follows from how we treat SPM in this wiki. I don't like it, but I can't disagree.
Infinite Speed ratings for the Pure Hearts & Chaos Heart users:

Count Bleck searched for Lady Timpani throughout the whole multiverse once his father cursed her. This is presented in Bleck's own confession that he never gave up searching for her...but never found her and had the knowledge to tell Nastasia before with a certainty that Timpani wasn't in any world, supporting the conclusion that he had at least travelled to and searched within them all before not finding her at all (not even a boo/ghost of her remained which makes sense since even by that point she wouldve been a Pixl and lost her memory unlike a boo/ghost) and finally grabbing the Dark Prognosticus and knowing his (possible) future, even relating his idea was he got to that point because he wanted to destroy all these worlds because they took her away. Being that there are infinite universes existing in the multiverse and the singular worlds in the sense of the story get treated as being universes, this would mean that he had been capable of moving at infinite speed in order to have done this feat within the time that the Ancients had a section of their tribe split off into the Tribe of Darkness and by that event the Tribe of Darkness was the last group (before Bleck) that held possession of the Dark Prognosticus with it being taken from the Pixl Queen (at most taking 2,000 years prior to the start of Super Paper Mario's events for Bleck's search to be finalized if Bleck was capable of searching within every world). Count Bleck fighting the Pure Heart heroes necessitates a speed boost is occurring as they able to physically react and attack him, keep up with him.
Is there any evidence that Blumiere went to every single universe? As far as I can tell, he just searched for a long time.
Power Nullification for Bleck and Super Dimentio for forcefields and attack reflection with the Void:
being able to bypass the Block Block (normally supposed to make the user “invincible”) and being able to ignore Barry’s reflection ability upon contact, which intentionally works on enemy projectiles in the game.

Barry has a self-evident & stated forcefield effect of reflecting projectile attacks.

The Block Block also reflects projectiles passively with the same animation as Barry (random game examples shown uses a yellow Magiblot's spell getting booped back to sender).
No problems with this.
 
Rebooting this thread upon request with input for the given proposals.

Immeasurable Strength / Infinite Speed ratings for the Chaos Heart users:

When Dimentio creates his ultimate form using Luigi and the Chaos Heart, his dialogue before gameplay starts gives me the impression that he would use immense power, without relying on the Void as a separate entity from him, but including the Chaos Heart's power to destroy all realities, which involved pulling in entire dimensions and space-time continuums. Upon defeat, Dimentio even asked: "How could I have lost with the power of Luigi and the Chaos Heart...[?]", implying that he was using the power of the Chaos Heart in a way that was relevant to the battle and that he thought would've made it impossible for him to lose, yet the heroes still had benefited from the power boost from the Pure Hearts during the fight. This indicated by Tippi's tattle saying that the body has immense power. This action should be something that benefitted Count Bleck from merging with the Chaos Heart's power as well. If by having the same physical ability / power of the Void was granted, they could potentially also move/pull/lift across an infinite distance as well with that force.

Infinite Strength ratings for the Pure Heart users:

As a separate angle, the Ancients (>9800 Bowser IQ) held the belief of how powerful the Pure Hearts power makes someone comparably infinitely powerful in magnitude for strength, to the point that no matter how strong the forces are fighting against it are, they would not triumph against it.

The Heroes can restrain Count Bleck with Thoreau once Pure Hearts amped; showing less comparability between them in strength with their respective amps.

Infinite Speed ratings for the Pure Hearts & Chaos Heart users:

Count Bleck searched for Lady Timpani throughout the whole multiverse once his father cursed her. This is presented in Bleck's own confession that he never gave up searching for her...but never found her and had the knowledge to tell Nastasia before with a certainty that Timpani wasn't in any world, supporting the conclusion that he had at least travelled to and searched within them all before not finding her at all (not even a boo/ghost of her remained which makes sense since even by that point she wouldve been a Pixl and lost her memory unlike a boo/ghost) and finally grabbing the Dark Prognosticus and knowing his (possible) future, even relating his idea was he got to that point because he wanted to destroy all these worlds because they took her away. Being that there are infinite universes existing in the multiverse and the singular worlds in the sense of the story get treated as being universes, this would mean that he had been capable of moving at infinite speed in order to have done this feat within the time that the Ancients had a section of their tribe split off into the Tribe of Darkness and by that event the Tribe of Darkness was the last group (before Bleck) that held possession of the Dark Prognosticus with it being taken from the Pixl Queen (at most taking 2,000 years prior to the start of Super Paper Mario's events for Bleck's search to be finalized if Bleck was capable of searching within every world). Count Bleck fighting the Pure Heart heroes necessitates a speed boost is occurring as they able to physically react and attack him, keep up with him.

Power Nullification for Bleck and Super Dimentio for forcefields and attack reflection with the Void:
being able to bypass the Block Block (normally supposed to make the user “invincible”) and being able to ignore Barry’s reflection ability upon contact, which intentionally works on enemy projectiles in the game.

Barry has a self-evident & stated forcefield effect of reflecting projectile attacks.

The Block Block also reflects projectiles passively with the same animation as Barry (random game examples shown uses a yellow Magiblot's spell getting booped back to sender).
Power null is good. But does Count Bleck travels at infinity speed? He could just travel several worlds and give up.Infinite strength is ok
 
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When Dimentio creates his ultimate form using Luigi and the Chaos Heart, his dialogue before gameplay starts gives me the impression that he would use immense power, without relying on the Void as a separate entity from him, but including the Chaos Heart's power to destroy all realities, which involved pulling in entire dimensions and space-time continuums. Upon defeat, Dimentio even asked: "How could I have lost with the power of Luigi and the Chaos Heart...[?]", implying that he was using the power of the Chaos Heart in a way that was relevant to the battle and that he thought would've made it impossible for him to lose, yet the heroes still had benefited from the power boost from the Pure Hearts during the fight. This indicated by Tippi's tattle saying that the body has immense power. This action should be something that benefitted Count Bleck from merging with the Chaos Heart's power as well. If by having the same physical ability / power of the Void was granted, they could potentially also move/pull/lift across an infinite distance as well with that force.
How does this mean Super Dimentio has infinite speed? Being strengthened by the Chaos heart doesn't mean you can move at the same speed of the void (which is not infinite anyways)

Super Dimentio and the Heroes' physicals shouldn't scale to the Chaos Heart's power to end all worlds anyways. The forcefield Super Dimentio made with the chaos heart's power could no sell their attacks

The Heroes can restrain Count Bleck with Thoreau once Pure Hearts amped; showing less comparability between them in strength with their respective amps
Why is this relevant?

As a separate angle, the Ancients (>9800 Bowser IQ) held the belief of how powerful the Pure Hearts power makes someone comparably infinitely powerful in magnitude for strength, to the point that no matter how strong the forces are fighting against it are, they would not triumph against it.
How is this infinite strength? And what kind of strength? Lifting or striking?

Count Bleck searched for Lady Timpani throughout the whole multiverse once his father cursed her. This is presented in Bleck's own confession that he never gave up searching for her...but never found her and had the knowledge to tell Nastasia before with a certainty that Timpani wasn't in any world, supporting the conclusion that he had at least travelled to and searched within them all before not finding her at all
This does not prove he went to literally every world
 
Looks good, and shouldn't Super Dimentio alsl have Invulnerability for being stated as invincible until the Chaos Hearts nulled it?
 
I believe Infinite speed could also be interpreted by the fact that individual universes possess High 3-A levels of 3-D space individually, and the Void spreads to consume them entirely.
Looks good, and shouldn't Super Dimentio alsl have Invulnerability for being stated as invincible until the Chaos Hearts nulled it?
We already went over this numerous times. But "Invulnerability" is hax we need to be skeptical with before adding as its prone to NLF. Our Invulnerability page elaborates this that some lore statements about the passive ability to nullify all conventional attacks is required; simply being so durable that all basic attacks do 0 damage is not enough to qualify the ability addition.

yeah, but the bums removed it
No need to be rude.
 
I believe Infinite speed could also be interpreted by the fact that individual universes possess High 3-A levels of 3-D space individually, and the Void spreads to consume them entirely.

We already went over this numerous times. But "Invulnerability" is hax we need to be skeptical with before adding as its prone to NLF. Our Invulnerability page elaborates this that some lore statements about the passive ability to nullify all conventional attacks is required; simply being so durable that all basic attacks do 0 damage is not enough to qualify the ability addition.


No need to be rude.
So what did Dimentio use before the Pure Hearts intervened, a forcefield around himself?
 
I believe Infinite speed could also be interpreted by the fact that individual universes possess High 3-A levels of 3-D space individually, and the Void spreads to consume them entirely.
I agree, but that's just for The Void. That would make Count Bleck's and Super Dimentio's speed "Massively FTL+,  Infinite attack speed with The Void."
We already went over this numerous times. But "Invulnerability" is hax we need to be skeptical with before adding as its prone to NLF. Our Invulnerability page elaborates this that some lore statements about the passive ability to nullify all conventional attacks is required; simply being so durable that all basic attacks do 0 damage is not enough to qualify the ability addition.
Darn.
That's just forcefield creation. Being invincible can be achieved through durability
So what did Dimentio use before the Pure Hearts intervened, a forcefield around himself?
I don't think that's Forcefield Creation. If it's not Invulnerability, it's high durability.
The heroes don't scale to Thoreau's lifting strength
Alright, but they still use it, so I would make their Lifting Strength "Class P, Infinite via Thoreau" if Count Bleck gets Infinite Lifting Strength.
 
for Super Dimentio to be portrayed as such a big deal (i.e the final boss), I don't think the cast remaining in their base state with full stamina is gonna cut it
 
doesn't detract the fact that it's true regardless

but I'll stop derailing too
Me too. Anyway, I've already made my case against the main thread.
I currently hate the way SPM is treated in the wiki, so let's dig into this.

Really? It just gives me the impression that he's going to use the Chaos Heart's power, Void and all.

He did, in the form of the invulnerability thing.

No it isn't?

Count Bleck also has a barrier which fulfills that description, but keep in mind that Paper Luigi, and by extension Super Dimentio, is "the ideal host for the power of the Chaos Heart," and so what applies to Super Dimentio might not apply to Count Bleck.

If. There's nothing that indicates that.

Sounds to me like just some Fate Manipulation shenanigans, and not necessarily physical strength.

I guess that follows from how we treat SPM in this wiki. I don't like it, but I can't disagree.

Is there any evidence that Blumiere went to every single universe? As far as I can tell, he just searched for a long time.

No problems with this.
 
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