Conceptual manipulation for elements?

[HaveSomeBlade]

Noticed we don't have it here.

I'm talking about manipulating the concepts involting fire, ice, wind, etc.

E.g. A conceptual ice manipulator being able to rewrite the concept of durability of the ice he/she creates from "X" to "Infinity", thus making it virtually unbreakable. Or being able to freeze anything that an ordinary ice user couldn't, such as abstract properties like sound, light or even someone's mind. One could also ignore a target's ice resistance/immunity, or reach temperatures lower than the absolute zero with ease. Maybe instantly flash-freeze anything to death with a finger snap? Like erasing their very existence by freezing their body and soul, etc.

A fire example could be changing the concept of burning, thus making the flames able to burn other concepts, such as time, space, existence, other abilities/powers, etc.

I know someone with conceptual manipulation could do all this and much much more. What I'm suggesting here is an upgrade for the elements itself. Like the lastest level one can reach with the manipulation of an element.

 

[Andykhang]

That's just conceptual manip like usual, so I think it's reduntdant in itself to do. I'm not the one deciding it though.

 

[Reppuzan]

Such an ability would still fall under the umbrella term of Conceptual Manipulation and it would be pretty pointless to add a separate page for.

But I know what you're talking about, and a number of characters can use such powers (so it is) a thing. I just don't think it's worth having another page.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

@Andykhang


I just think that it would be something cool to be added to the elements since some franchises already have some element-based conceptual attacks. Like Bleach Hitsugaya's Bankai being able to freeze other powers, nullifying them completely or Yamamoto's Bankai being able to burn things out of existence.

 

[Reppuzan]

@HaveSomeBlade

Those are just higher forms of Elemental Manipulation with some Power Nullification added in Toshiro's case.

I'm also somewhat doubtful about Yamamoto actually burning things out of existence since that means he would have had Void Manipulation/

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

Such an ability would still fall under the umbrella term of Conceptual Manipulation and it would be pretty pointless to add a separate page for.
But I know what you're talking about, and a number of characters can use such powers (so it is) a thing. I just don't think it's worth having another page.

Not a new page, just add something regarding it on the page of the elements.

Something like stating it is the highest level of elemental manipulation, etc. You know, regular fire manipulation > cosmic fire > conceptual fire. Something like that.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

@HaveSomeBlade
Those are just higher forms of Elemental Manipulation with some Power Nullification added in Toshiro's case.

I'm also somewhat doubtful about Yamamoto actually burning things out of existence since that means he would have had Void Manipulation/

I'm pretty sure that it's not possible for ordinary ice, regardless of how powerful it is or its user is, to freeze an ability itself. So Toshiro's Bankai clearly have some kind of conceptual power behind it IMO. In Yamamoto's case, maybe not him, but it's possible that his zampakutou gain something similar to void manipulation in order to being able to "burn anything it cuts out of existence", as stated in the manga. Void or conceptual, I just don't know which one.

 

[Reppuzan]

@HaveSomeBlade

That doesn't mean it's the same as freezing the concept of something. It's just really good flashing freezing along with Power Nullification. Being conceptual has serious connotations, like slicing through the concept of distance to eliminate any chance of actually missing unless your foe has the same level of power as you. Simply stopping something from working isn't the same thing.

It should be noted that "wipe from existence" doesn't always mean wiping from existence. Kingdom Heart's Warp spell is described as such, but it's pretty much a BFR spell. On the same note, vaporizing a target nigh-instantly can be considered "wiping from existence".

In any case, such things would have be thoroughly described and proven on the characters' profiles.

 

[HaveSomeBlade]

@Reppuzan

I'm not sure about Yamamoto despite thinking his bankai actually burn things to nothingness, but I'm 99% sure that Hitsugaya's bankai isn't just power nullification. I play D&D for more than 12 years now and we have many god-tier monsters there with conceptual manipulation based on elements. This is a good example: http://dungeonsdragons.wikia.com/wiki/Immoth


From my experience, Hitsugaya's bankai changes the very concept of freezing, including some sealing power along with it. It's far more than simple power nullification IMO. But that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Reppuzan regarding that this seems like a sub-category of another powers & abilities page, and likely too uncommon and obscure to warrant one of its own.