Commandment of Piety vs Prime of the Adept

[Jibz]

Darkness isn't np though, its stated to be physical on the demon page so idk why that matters.

It's physical in the sense its a substance that can be meshed into weaponry, that i'll agree with. But petrification, petrifies the opponent.

 

[Arkenis]

here It's too fast to be petrfied and it has multiple layers and of fast moving tendrils of darkness

This doesn't matter, the darkness will still be affected by the energy.

 

[VsReferee]

Has Zhongli's petrification ever been shown to do that? The ingame description is

I dont recall it having some form of NPI.

Ah, so that means it should do damage first to be able to be petrified?

 

[speedster352]

This doesn't matter, the darkness will still be affected by the energy.

Not it won't it rotates too fast and it's fast moving tendrils of darkness so more tendrils can replace it. Like the helicopter rotors example it's almost impossible to fully freeze.

 

[Jibz]

geo energy and earth, two different things.

Zhongli:

Every inch of land contains "the power of Geo"
Few people can channel said power --> "Commands the power of earth"

Diane:

Due to their deep connection to nature she is capable of manipulating the Earth.

These literally sound the same

Both can only be used by few
Their deep connection enables them to manipulate Earth
"Power of Geo" --> manipulate Earth
"Deep connection" --> manipulate Earth

 

[Jibz]

This doesn't matter, the darkness will still be affected by the energy.

Said energy has only been stated to affect "opponents" ergo people. I've seen no evidence that it'd be able to effect substances, such as darkness (literally doesn't affect water, or the ground at all in the game)

 

[Arkenis]

Zhongli:

Every inch of land contains "the power of Geo"
Few people can channel said power --> "Commands the power of earth"

Diane:

Due to their deep connection to nature she is capable of manipulating the Earth.

These literally sound the same

Both can only be used by few
Their deep connection enables them to manipulate Earth
"Power of Geo" --> manipulate Earth
"Deep connection" --> manipulate Earth

They don't sound the same. ones energy and ones actually controlling the earth.

 

[VsReferee]

They don't sound the same. ones energy and ones actually controlling the earth.

One is energy and the other is NATURAL energy

 

[Arkenis]

Said energy has only been stated to affect "opponents" ergo people. I've seen no evidence that it'd be able to effect substances, such as darkness (literally doesn't affect water, or the ground at all in the game)

Not sure if this matters, on his page its stated everything. This is likely just a in game mechanic rather than how it works lore wise.

 

[Arkenis]

One is energy and the other is NATURAL energy

Diane literally doesn't have energy manip on her page. You're trying to compare geo energy to manipulating the earth when its not the same

 

[Jibz]

They don't sound the same. ones energy and ones actually controlling the earth.

One's controlling the Earth via energy
The other is controlling the Earth via "connection"

"Energy" in this case is heavily linked to their connection to Celestia.

So Diane controls Earth via her connection to it, whilst Zhongli controls Earth via his connection to Celestia. At a fundamental level how is that so different it can't be equalized.

 

[Shey]

As for Geo being able to affect substances, yes it does react with other Elements the reaction is called Crystallize and this happens when it comes in contact with all other elements other than Anemo(Wind)

 

[Shey]

One's controlling the Earth via energy
The other is controlling the Earth via "connection"

"Energy" in this case is heavily linked to their connection to Celestia.

Zhongli's Earth Manipulation is not because of his connection to Celestia
He's a Geo elemental being by default it's his Gnosis that enhances his Elemental powers by directly tapping Power from Celestia

 

[Arkenis]

One's controlling the Earth via energy
The other is controlling the Earth via "connection"

"Energy" in this case is heavily linked to their connection to Celestia.

So Diane controls Earth via her connection to it, whilst Zhongli controls Earth via his connection to Celestia. At a fundamental level how is that so different it can't be equalized.

ones energy and the other is a connection. they aren't the same bro.

 

[Jibz]

As for Geo being able to affect substances, yes it does react with other Elements the reaction is called Crystallize and this happens when it comes in contact with all other elements other than Anemo

Crystalise =/= petrification

One grants a shield
The other freezes the opponent

 

[Shey]

Crystalise =/= petrification

One grants a shield
The other freezes the opponent

It literally crystallizes the contracted elements into shards
Absorbing the Crystals is what forms a shield
It literally solidifies it on contact, similar to petrifying beings

 

[Jibz]

Zhongli's Earth Manipulation is not because of his connection to Celestia
He's a Geo elemental being by default it's his Gnosis that enhances his Elemental powers by directly tapping Power from Celestia

In Zhongli's story it's stated that his "divine ability" to protect his nation is due to his Gnosis, and that after losing it he was "unable to defend Liyue" making this the "contract to end all contracts"

However i might be wrong, i do have a faint remembrance of the Gnosis just being an enhancement, but i'd like to see evidence that this is the case.

 

[Jibz]

It literally crystallizes the contracted elements into shards
Absorbing the Crystals is what forms a shield
It literally solidifies it on contact, similar to petrifying beings

Wait how are you even arguing this if you believe the verses to be unequalized. Let's focus on that first before we move onto different avenues.

 

[Shey]

In Zhongli's story it's stated that his "divine ability" to protect his nation is due to his Gnosis, and that after losing it he was "unable to defend Liyue" making this the "contract to end all contracts"

However i might be wrong, i do have a faint remembrance of the Gnosis just being an enhancement, but i'd like to see evidence that this is the case.

Zhongli descended 6000 years ago and had been defending the people of Liyue since then
All his feats are from that period
He then was granted his Gnosis about what was 2700 years ago when he became and Archon

 

[Jibz]

Zhongli descended 6000 years ago and had been defending the people of Liyue since then
All his feats are from that period
He then was granted his Gnosis about what was 2700 years ago when he became and Archon

Wasn't he already the God of Geo prior to the archon war. The archon war was just the gods killing eachother with the 7 victors being dubbed the "archons". I dont recall the 7 victors being granted a Gnosis when they did inturn become an archon, but if you could show a scan of that id happily retract my statement.

 

[Jibz]

actually recalling now, it does seem like a power boost rather then a power granter in hindsight.

 

[Shey]

Wasn't he already the God of Geo prior to the archon war. The archon war was just the gods killing eachother with the 7 victors being dubbed the "archons". I dont recall the 7 victors being granted a Gnosis when they did inturn become an archon, but if you could show a scan of that id happily retract my statement.

He was the God of Geo yes, Gods aren't necessarily Archons, Archons are the individual winners of the Wars against various other gods in their region and upon their Victory they ascend to Celestia and are granted the Gnosis a divine connection to Celestia
I'll copy paste Venti's take on it

Spoiler: Gnosis Explanation

So... what is a Gnosis?
Venti: Ah, so you noticed.
Venti: sigh This isn't something I'm meant to discuss with ordinary people. But I suppose I can let you in on the secret.
Venti: As you know, Visions are external magical foci that only a small minority of people possess. They use these Visions to channel elemental power.
Venti: In truth, every wielder of a Vision is one who can attain godhood and ascend to Celestia. We call such people allogenes.
Paimon: Allogenes? Paimon's never heard of them before.
Venti: Hehe, that's because this is a secret that only archons are privy to. We don't need primitive tools like Visions.
Venti: Instead, each archon has an internal magical focus that resonates directly with Celestia itself... known as a Gnosis.

 

[Shey]

actually recalling now, it does seem like a power boost rather then a power granter in hindsight.

Yes that is what it is

 

[Arkenis]

Well this is what someone said on genshin's discussion thread

Idk if there’s an official answer, but I’ve always considered elemental energy a form of magic, and I think that’s how the wiki treats it too, it’s not exactly an organic, scientifically explainable phenomenon in Genshin’s physics, very little is known about the working of visions

Unsure but I assuming the other elements are magical then this would make geo energy magical so petrification wouldn't work. still unsure but if other genshin supporters can give input

 

[Jibz]

Honestly my whole rhetoric got away from me when we went into a tangent. Let me reiterate my case

"Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen."

In my opinion the powerset of Genshin is similar to the magic system of NNT, whilst not wholly the same it is extremely "similar" outside of some facets which are ultimately neligible. To use Nel's words:

ones energy and the other is a connection. they aren't the same bro.

This is absolutely correct. It is not the same, however using "energy" Zhongli is capable of manipulating (inlore it uses the word "control") Earth, whilst Diane using her "connection" can manipulate Earth.

So whilst yes they aren't the same, they are similar enough to be equalised. With what contrasts the two not large enough to outweigh the similarities. So now i leave it up to all of us. To vote on wether or not the verses can be equalized, as we are all steadfast in our opinions.

 

[Shey]

Eh, Genshin's power system is solely based on Non Elemental beings using Visions to channel the elemental energy from their surroundings and manipulate them and Elemental beings are just innately able to use it
Pyro(Fire),Hydro(Water),Electro(Lightning), Dendro(Plants),Cryo(Ice) and Geo(Earth)

From what I recall 7DS power system isn't based on solely manipulating elements , I maybe wrong

You could make a case for Adeptal arts, Energy which can do things such as create pocket dimensions, resurrection, sealing and other whatnot

 

[Jibz]

From what I recall 7DS power system isn't based on solely manipulating elements , I maybe wrong

it'd just mean its a more advanced version. It's not really a detriment to that end. It's just a more advanced powerset.

 

[Shey]

it'd just mean its a more advanced version. It's not really a detriment to that end. It's just a more advanced powerset.

Then it would be like Adeptal arts

 

[Jibz]

Then it would be like Adeptal arts

What? No im saying that elemental magic IS in NNT along with a myriad of other magic, as the system is more advanced.

 

[Arkenis]

The way I see it is that natural energy such as geo energy is different enough to the point geo energy petrifies. Diane's magic attacks don't petrify, earth magic itself doesn't petrify.

 

[Jibz]

Im sure Diane can encase someone in rock the same way the petrification seems to appear ingame. Regardless you're arguing semantics. I presume i can put u down for Disagreement, despite the fact some genshin supporters seem to view it as magic?

 

[Arkenis]

Im sure Diane can encase someone in rock the same way the petrification seems to appear ingame. Regardless you're arguing semantics. I presume i can put u down for Disagreement, despite the fact some genshin supporters seem to view it as magic?

some don't as well. go check on their discussion thread I ask them recently. And incasing is not petrification. How you gonna say I'm being semantical when you argued incasing is petrification.

 

[Arkenis]

In geology, petrifaction or petrification is the process by which organic material becomes a fossil through the replacement of the original material and the filling of the original pore spaces with minerals. Petrified wood typifies this process, but all organisms, from bacteria to vertebrates, can become petrified.

 

[Jibz]

And incasing is not petrification

The visual effect looks akin to incasing, but i see your point (also Diane could just as easily petrify a person using basic logic)

How you gonna say I'm being semantical when you argued incasing is petrification.

You're right, that's on me. But you are still arguing semantics.

some don't as well. go check on their discussion thread I ask them recently.

Which is why i believe we should hold a vote on it, as its a very divisive issue

 

[Arkenis]

The visual effect looks akin to incasing, but i see your point (also Diane could just as easily petrify a person using basic logic)

She does not have it listed and I think you just have a misunderstanding of petrification.

Which is why i believe we should hold a vote on it, as its a very divisive issue

Geo energy is different to magic in sds in that it itself can petrify versus magic power in sds that can not.

 

[Jibz]

She does not have it listed and I think you just have a misunderstanding of petrification.

Petrification is rather simple. Its via pressure and compression, with mineral entering pores thereby replacing the original material. Diane should be capable of this? Not that she's actually done it, but its common sense.

Geo energy is different to magic in sds in that it itself can petrify versus magic power in sds that can not.

Holy shit, im tired of ad naseum. Im not responding anymore, i'll let the votes speak for themselves.

 

[speedster352]

I vote Zeldris also ON cannot be petrified it’s tendrils of darkness moving at high speeds more can be made to takes its place. Also his petrifaction works on people not magic.

 

[speedster352]

Also it would be a NLF to say he can petrify everything including darkness without feats.

 

[Jibz]

Also it would be a NLF to say he can petrify everything including darkness without feats.

"No the magic systems are too different for the verses to be equalized!"

"Also despite the fact its only able to crystalize when reacting with Cryo, Pyro, Hydro and Electro it works on Darkness for some reason (verses are totally not equalized though"

Jesus Speed, save me from this nightmare.

 

[Jibz]

Votes for Verse equalization:

For: Jibz, Speedster, VsRef
Against: Nel, Shey