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9 Oni-8 Goku with FTW's vote for Goku.
2 inconclusive.
We are still discussing it though.
2 inconclusive.
We are still discussing it though.
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COLLIDING FISTS OF KI! Son Goku vs Akuma
- Thread starter PTSOXMONKEY99
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"Goku would be more likely to go for the kill first"
The same guy who gave up to Cell? And only killed two people as an adult, both in the Buu saga?
"Oni STILL starts slow"
Oni has discarded his remaining humanity (saying that it is of no use to "evil incarnate"), his identity as Akuma, and his prominent moral code as a warrior; he will fight anyone to the death, regardless of condition, rather than seeking out worthy opponents to fight in a fair match. His presence is such that certain characters even refer to him as a god in their win quotes.
Straight from the SF Wiki
"Goku can sense evil ki"
Aside from the fact that this only happened once with Raditz, and Namekians have demonstrated that much better, didn't stop him from using less power against Frieza as an SS, not instantly IT'ing to Mechanics Frieza to deck him in the schnoz, and giving up to let Gohan fight in the Cell Games.
The same guy who gave up to Cell? And only killed two people as an adult, both in the Buu saga?
"Oni STILL starts slow"
Oni has discarded his remaining humanity (saying that it is of no use to "evil incarnate"), his identity as Akuma, and his prominent moral code as a warrior; he will fight anyone to the death, regardless of condition, rather than seeking out worthy opponents to fight in a fair match. His presence is such that certain characters even refer to him as a god in their win quotes.
Straight from the SF Wiki
"Goku can sense evil ki"
Aside from the fact that this only happened once with Raditz, and Namekians have demonstrated that much better, didn't stop him from using less power against Frieza as an SS, not instantly IT'ing to Mechanics Frieza to deck him in the schnoz, and giving up to let Gohan fight in the Cell Games.
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This is funny. Goku goes out of his way to search strong fighters. He was warned by King Kai that Freeza was evil and very strong, but nope, Goku was excited to fight him. So no, Goku won't go for the kill without a good fist fight. Also as it's being said several times, Instant Kameha is not infallible and Goku has used it twice in his whole fighting history.Miles Romero12 said:
Someone should count FTW's vote.
Not really. You insist everyone that voted Oni should defend their arguments, and yet when another dude comes waltzing in saying "Goku instant kamehameha's Akuma into oblivion" when the argument is ongoing, you say count that vote? Yeah, that's not how this works.
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Goku let Frieza reach 100 percent and gave Cell a Senzu Bean. It's established throughout that Goku values a good fight over efficient victory or even his/others' safety. He's not more likely to go immediately for the kill than Asura.
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So...Two responses i guess.
@Cal 1.that didnt change the fact goku went for the kill against Cell before he knew he could regenerate. (See. Goku's insta kamehame against cell.)
2.-He still went slow against Asura. Wasnt you the one who claimed we shouldnt just take stats and statement at face value? You cannot change thr fact that Oni didnt start with a raging demon in that fight.
3.-see point 1
@Scarlet 1.-I said likely. Oni likes to measure his opponents before going all out. See point 2 of cal's segment.
2.-Yes, its a vote and we should count it.
I dont see you admiting most of the early votes for Akuma are invalid now, huh?
And you still have not asnwered me with proof Asura has Soul protection or that the raging demon is a one hit kill.
@Cal 1.that didnt change the fact goku went for the kill against Cell before he knew he could regenerate. (See. Goku's insta kamehame against cell.)
2.-He still went slow against Asura. Wasnt you the one who claimed we shouldnt just take stats and statement at face value? You cannot change thr fact that Oni didnt start with a raging demon in that fight.
3.-see point 1
@Scarlet 1.-I said likely. Oni likes to measure his opponents before going all out. See point 2 of cal's segment.
2.-Yes, its a vote and we should count it.
I dont see you admiting most of the early votes for Akuma are invalid now, huh?
And you still have not asnwered me with proof Asura has Soul protection or that the raging demon is a one hit kill.
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Seeing as you guys are always so keen to assume the outcome of a match solely based on a certain character trait. I think my point still stands. This is cell saga Goku, a.k.a. the Goku that came up with idea of doing the IT+Kamehameha, after taking some damage this Goku will resort to this technique which will destroy Akuma. If you say Akuma can one-shot this Goku, you're wanking.
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Cell Saga Goku was willing to risk his son and everyone on the planet getting killed restoring Cell's health for the sake of a "fair match." He's not nearly as bloodlusted or efficient as you guys are saying he is. His whole point is that he longs for a good fight.
And yes Akuma can theoretically one shot Goku with soul based attacks, as Goku has no resistance towards them.
And yes Akuma can theoretically one shot Goku with soul based attacks, as Goku has no resistance towards them.
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Your own words:Miles Romero12 said:
1. It is kind of weird to give your vote when almost all of cal´s points have been refuted in the thread, tho
2. I dont think this match should end until someone who voted for Akuma explains this obvious proof that the raging demon is a combo and NOT a 1 hit kill.
FTW395: If you say Akuma can one-shot this Goku, you're wanking.
This is rich coming from the one saying Goku will one shot Oni with instakameha.
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yeah, but guess what. Unless you include Gohan as a potential fight candidate with SSJ2 Powers in this fight. Goku won't be so carefree. I've seen a person debunk the soul based attacks in this thread, so no he cannot.Ryukama said:
Edit: BTW where does Goku even get his High 4-C rating from?
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I've seen a person debunk the soul based attacks in this thread, so no he cannot.
And that comment would be...
And that comment would be...
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This is rich coming from the one saying Goku will one shot Oni with instakameha.
Due to the fact that he would've killed Cell if he didn't have his Regenerationn, Akuma doesn't have Regenerationn so yeah he gets one-shotted. Then again I still don't see where Goku's High 4-C rating comes from.
Due to the fact that he would've killed Cell if he didn't have his Regenerationn, Akuma doesn't have Regenerationn so yeah he gets one-shotted. Then again I still don't see where Goku's High 4-C rating comes from.
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Goku was also carefree with letting Frieza power up to his max. Goku in general just values having a good fight over much else.
And also how is a High 4-C attack going to destroy an At least High 4-C, possibly higher? Goku would have to spam this attack, which considering he's literally only used it twice in the series, is very unlikely.
The only debunk of the soul attacks was an example of someone resisting it. That doesn't mean Goku can resist it. So can anyone who's 3-A resist Hit's Time Stop just because Goku did? Can anyone resist mental attacks because Ryuko has? Can anyone resist telekinetic attacks because Saitama has?
Characters need an established resistance to hax in order to be assumed capable of negating it. Which Goku does not. The fact that an entirely different character has resisted the attack is irrelevant.
And also how is a High 4-C attack going to destroy an At least High 4-C, possibly higher? Goku would have to spam this attack, which considering he's literally only used it twice in the series, is very unlikely.
The only debunk of the soul attacks was an example of someone resisting it. That doesn't mean Goku can resist it. So can anyone who's 3-A resist Hit's Time Stop just because Goku did? Can anyone resist mental attacks because Ryuko has? Can anyone resist telekinetic attacks because Saitama has?
Characters need an established resistance to hax in order to be assumed capable of negating it. Which Goku does not. The fact that an entirely different character has resisted the attack is irrelevant.
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I already presented the possibilities to Miles, I suggest you read them.FTW395 said:
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So are you giving your vote to Goku, FTW?
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Still Goku survived the devilmite beam and vegeta was shown to resists babidi's mental attacks. Akuma's rating comes from a low-end High 4-C rating (only 0.9 foe). So it's entirely possible that Goku can one-shot Akuma. Then again as I've said before. I don't know where Goku's high 4-C rating comes from, so I really cannot elaborate on this argument.
I agree that Goku values a good fight over anything else, but I don't see how him getting one-shotted would result into a good fight. Goku won't let himself get one-shotted that's out of character.
Edit: @PTSOXMONKEY99 completely depends on where Goku's High 4-C rating comes from.
I agree that Goku values a good fight over anything else, but I don't see how him getting one-shotted would result into a good fight. Goku won't let himself get one-shotted that's out of character.
Edit: @PTSOXMONKEY99 completely depends on where Goku's High 4-C rating comes from.
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Devilmite Beam is converting negative thoughts into destructive energy. Not necessarily attacking the soul. Mind Resistance and Soul Resistance are completely different things.
Also by the logic you're saying about Akuma getting "debunked," Vegeta resisting Babidi's attack means anyone can resist it.
Akuma is a high degree above that value and Goku is an unknown amount of High 4-C. An argument shouldn't be made on who's stronger as we don't know exactly how powerful in their tier they are.
It's not that Goku would let himself get one shot, it's that he has no idea how the soul attacks work and will get hit by them before he beats Akuma down. And especially before he thinks to spam an attack he only used twice in the entire series.
Also by the logic you're saying about Akuma getting "debunked," Vegeta resisting Babidi's attack means anyone can resist it.
Akuma is a high degree above that value and Goku is an unknown amount of High 4-C. An argument shouldn't be made on who's stronger as we don't know exactly how powerful in their tier they are.
It's not that Goku would let himself get one shot, it's that he has no idea how the soul attacks work and will get hit by them before he beats Akuma down. And especially before he thinks to spam an attack he only used twice in the entire series.
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The beam is a very specific spirit based attack, just like the Raging Demon. Just because you survive one doesn't mean you'll survive the other. They are attacks based on conditions. Anyone that doesn't clear those conditions, isn't affected.FTW395 said:
Vegeta is irrelevant here.FTW395 said:
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@Scarlet
Yet you discarted ALL of my responses about those possibilities.
You are the one who came up with ASURA'S OWN VERSION OF THE RAGING DEMON.
This is reaching and getting things out of nowhere.
Asura punched thru Oni's raging demon and that is backed up by the game itself.
I ask again, why not Goku? Asura has no soul protection on the main game at all.
Yet you discarted ALL of my responses about those possibilities.
You are the one who came up with ASURA'S OWN VERSION OF THE RAGING DEMON.
This is reaching and getting things out of nowhere.
Asura punched thru Oni's raging demon and that is backed up by the game itself.
I ask again, why not Goku? Asura has no soul protection on the main game at all.
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Also here's Roshi's explanation on the Devilmite Beam.
It amplified any dark thought (anger, malice, aggression) and caused it to expand until his opponent's heart, literally exploded
Ryu is right, it converts malice into physical damage, so not exactly a soul attack.
It amplified any dark thought (anger, malice, aggression) and caused it to expand until his opponent's heart, literally exploded
Ryu is right, it converts malice into physical damage, so not exactly a soul attack.
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This is reaching? I already gave you two reasons why this is a legit argument. Go and read them.Miles Romero12 said:
Asura has no soul protection on the main game at all.
And Oni isn't Large Star in the main game either, what's your point?
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I just looked up the raging demon and realized it was a physical attack instead of a beam or whatever it could be. What makes you think that Goku would just let Akuma beat him up, instead of blocking or dodging it? Btw is it in-character for Akuma to spam his raging demon at the start of the fight?
This could go either way, Goku could use solar flare and destructo disk or his instant kamehameha, while Akume could use his Raging demon.
This could go either way, Goku could use solar flare and destructo disk or his instant kamehameha, while Akume could use his Raging demon.
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Are you kidding me right now?
Literaly no one of you has explained or responded to me on how Asura blocked punched thru onis raging demon.
You IGNORE any possibility or response that doesnt favour Oni.
This is not a debate, this is a kangaroo court.
Literaly no one of you has explained or responded to me on how Asura blocked punched thru onis raging demon.
You IGNORE any possibility or response that doesnt favour Oni.
This is not a debate, this is a kangaroo court.
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He has done it before. See Evil Ryu vs Akuma. Right of the bat, he goes for the Raging Demon.FTW395 said:
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First, I suggest you take it down a notch.Miles Romero12 said:
No one is ignoring anything. This is the third time I'm mentioning why Asura got out of the Raging Demon.
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@FTW Like Scarlet said Akuma spams the attack and with speed equal is likely to be able to hit him at least once.
@Miles We have many times. Asura resisting the attack doesn't mean everyone in fiction can. That just means Asura has soul resistance. Ryuko punched herself in the face to resist mind attacks. Does that mean everyone can now negate those mind attacks if they punch themselves?
@Miles We have many times. Asura resisting the attack doesn't mean everyone in fiction can. That just means Asura has soul resistance. Ryuko punched herself in the face to resist mind attacks. Does that mean everyone can now negate those mind attacks if they punch themselves?
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That's the one.FTW395 said:
Thank youRyukama said:
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this is EXACTLY what i am saying.Ryukama said:
You literally assume that he has soul resistance instead of considering the possibility that it is at least possible to reduce the damage of the raging demon by countering/dodging blows.
Not to mention you are ignoring again thr fact that the Raging Demon is a 13-33 hit COMBO, thus the "one hit kill" part is a mystery since two posibilities are present here. (This is confirmed again in SFV's raging demon)
Does it take one single hit to kill your soul.
Or the entiee combo must hit for your soul to die?
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These guys try to dismiss the fact that Oni did not start the fight by using the raging demon against Asura.
Why would he against Goku, huh?
Not to mention they still ignore the insta kamehameha and Spirit bomb being very effective attacks in this battle.
Why would he against Goku, huh?
Not to mention they still ignore the insta kamehameha and Spirit bomb being very effective attacks in this battle.
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That's not game mechanics, that's a cutscene, get your facts straight.FTW395 said:
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"this is EXACTLY what i am saying." Okay I am done talking at this point then.
Asura is an entirely separate character from Goku. You cannot assume that just because he has something everyone else can. Or else by your logic everyone in fiction has mind resistance, soul resistance, intangibility resistance, etc.
Asura simply being able to resist a soul attack is far more reasonable than, Asura punched it out therefore everyone in fiction can now resist the attack. That's not how powers and resistances work here and it's not how we rate things here.
Plus again it's not like Akuma can only rely on soul attacks. He has centuries more combat experience and much higher stamina.
Asura is an entirely separate character from Goku. You cannot assume that just because he has something everyone else can. Or else by your logic everyone in fiction has mind resistance, soul resistance, intangibility resistance, etc.
Asura simply being able to resist a soul attack is far more reasonable than, Asura punched it out therefore everyone in fiction can now resist the attack. That's not how powers and resistances work here and it's not how we rate things here.
Plus again it's not like Akuma can only rely on soul attacks. He has centuries more combat experience and much higher stamina.
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Maybe if you linked me the facts instead of letting a person who knows nothing about SF search for it themselves we wouldn't have this problem. I said I just googled a bit so I wasn't 100% sure if I saw the right one, which I apparently didn't. The video I saw had no cutscene whatsoever.ScarletFirefly said:
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The Raging Demon (Instant Hell Murder) also the Wrath of the Raging Demon (quoted by Akuma "Isshun Sengeki"-> One thousand strikes in an instant) is a series of strikes all in one instant.
Also, who in their right mind would let Goku charge up his Spirit Bomb?
Also, who in their right mind would let Goku charge up his Spirit Bomb?
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Exactly.Ryukama said:
Why would Akuma go instantly for the Raging Demon against Goku? And you still have not proven that Asura has soul resistance if he ounched thru the attack twice.
For me, it looks like you are going to have some trouble proving that.
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I object.ScarletFirefly said:
That description of the attack is incorrect while compared to the game's interpretation of said attack.
Not only this would make Asura's reaction speed instant, it contradicts all the street fighter games it has appeared in, when it is shown to be a 13-33 hit combo.
This contradicts SFV the most where it is SHOWN how the Raging Demon is like without the black screen.
And this just proves that you didnt read the entiee thread, we argumented that Goku can charge the spirit bomb as much as he wsnts by teleporting somewhere else and throwing it at Akuma from a distace.
And argumented that Oni would be confused enough to leave the planet. Even if he did, goku can track him down with ki sensing and IT and launch kamehamehas from every possible angle and teleport back.
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