Classroom of the Elite/Youkoso Jitsuryoku Shijou Shugi no Kyoushitsu e Discussion Thread

[DeltaStriker22]

I believe so yes. But a CRT has to be made for it to be applied to the page and character profiles, as Ayanokouji is currently 9-C+.

Also, the lifting strength rating in the calc also comes from the KE which is 29 KJ, not 21.

Noice. Wall level at last.

 

[Dinozxd]

Noice. Wall level at last.

Thought I don't quite understand how getting Kinetic Energy from that feat is valid. The rules of using speed to find Attack Potency (as Kinetic Energy Feats page states), are:

• A certain character moves at a certain speed while carrying an object, that would require superhuman strength to be carried.
• The kinetic energy displayed is directly shown to be as a result of speed, or at least heavily implied to be so. Examples would be: A meteor crashing into the ground, as well as a Kaiju moving at full speed.
• A verse consistently treats speed, and its relation to attack potency, in a realistic manner. Calculating kinetic energy from a character's speed isn't problematic, if it's clear that the story they're from doesn't separate speed from one's general capacity for destruction.
• A projectile has been calculated to move at a certain speed, such as a cannonball or a spear.
• An object moves at said speed due to the secondary effects of an attack. For example when an explosion tosses large rocks around, their KE can be used to measure the power of the explosion.
• A feat happens in the Real World, since physics work normally in real life.
• A giant character, one weighing 200kg or more, is moving themselves. For launching feats such a minimum mass isn't necessary.

The calculation doesn't fill any of these criteria as far as I can tell.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Thought I don't quite understand how getting Kinetic Energy from that feat is valid. The rules of using speed to find Attack Potency (as Kinetic Energy Feats page states), are:

The calculation doesn't fill any of these criteria as far as I can tell.

True...
Koji pinned Ichika down with raw strength without relying on speed or any other factors like that... The KE might be invalid.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Is this calc accepted?
If so we can get KE from this feat due to:

• A projectile has been calculated to move at a certain speed, such as a cannonball or a spear.

Giving Ryuuen's new AP 9.30429081 Kj (Street Level+).

 

[Dinozxd]

Is this calc accepted?

It's currently getting revised, along with Koenji's boar feat.

Giving Ryuuen's new AP 9.30429081 Kj (Street Level+).

The calculated kinetic energy is 4289.59088 Joules according to the calc.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I see.
Personally I think the scaling should go: Kid Koji < Current Koji < Prime Koji.
Just because growing up makes humans physically stronger via puberty and koji got more skilled via more experience he gained in the WR.
17 y/o koji being weaker than his 9 y/o self just doesn't make sense biologically.

Well. I would agree and it might be good to say that an adult obviously is better than their kid versions and use biology as an explanation, but we are in COTE. Tsukishiro, or let's take a WR instructor in general who will be in their 40s or 50s gets done by a 9-year-old Ayanokouji, so sadly enough, body physiology doesn't really apply to COTE that much, also, Ayanokouji has an undisclosed and a supernatural source of power which is narratively confirmed. His overall strength is not dependent on anything like muscle or body.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Thought I don't quite understand how getting Kinetic Energy from that feat is valid. The rules of using speed to find Attack Potency (as Kinetic Energy Feats page states), are:

The calculation doesn't fill any of these criteria as far as I can tell.

• A certain character moves at a certain speed while carrying an object, that would require superhuman strength to be carried.

It applies to the feat as far as I can tell, Ayanokouji basically caused Ichika to move at those speeds.

Also, the CRT is to be planned. I am currently very busy for at least a month or so IRL, so it's tough honestly.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Also this:

• The kinetic energy displayed is directly shown to be as a result of speed, or at least heavily implied to be so. Examples would be: A meteor crashing into the ground, as well as a Kaiju moving at full speed.

Ayanokouji himself mentioned that the attack which he delivered to Ichika caused damage to Ichika, and also that the main reason behind it was the momentum, which is as good as saying that it was due to the speed.

 

[Dinozxd]

• A certain character moves at a certain speed while carrying an object, that would require superhuman strength to be carried.

It applies to the feat as far as I can tell, Ayanokouji basically caused Ichika to move at those speeds.

An average Japanese higschool girl weighs like 51 kilos. Carrying that weight doesn't require superhuman strength, let alone slamming it down.

Also this:

• The kinetic energy displayed is directly shown to be as a result of speed, or at least heavily implied to be so. Examples would be: A meteor crashing into the ground, as well as a Kaiju moving at full speed.

Ayanokouji himself mentioned that the attack which he delivered to Ichika caused damage to Ichika, and also that the main reason behind it was the momentum, which is as good as saying that it was due to the speed.

I thought about this too but I'm kinda iffy about it as momentum and speed aren't the same thing. Momentum takes the object's mass and the direction of it's motion into account as well.

A slower attack that uses more body weight can be more damaging than a faster attack that uses less body weight. That's momentum.

 

[RoggerReggor]

An average Japanese higschool girl weighs like 51 kilos. Carrying that weight doesn't require superhuman strength, let alone slamming it down.

It doesn't say carrying in general, it is still requiring a heck of a force to carry her around with that acceleration.

I thought about this too but I'm kinda iffy about it as momentum and speed aren't the same thing. Momentum takes the object's mass and the direction of it's motion into account as well.

Velocity/Speed are treated as the same in powerscaling, and momentum is the property of a moving object without any doubt. The only thing you are saying is that momentum is a vector, but the primary reason why momentum is a vector is because it is calculated using velocity (interchangeable with speed in powerscales) and velocity itself is a vector. Also, mass is a constant here (equals mass of the girl), so momentum is seriously only affected by the velocity at which a character moves.

A slower attack that uses more body weight can be more damaging than a faster attack that uses less body weight. That's momentum.

This is just limited. A 10 kg object moving at 10 m/s speed would have the same amount of momentum as a 100 kg object moving at 1 m/s speed, yes, but not a 50 kg object, or to generalize, anything less than 100 kg at 1 m/s. So, a slower attack using more weight isn't always more damaging than a faster attack that uses a lesser one.

 

[Dinozxd]

It doesn't say carrying in general, it is still requiring a heck of a force to carry her around with that acceleration.

The rule isn't talking about force so idk really, just weight in general. Carrying 50 kilos doesn't require superhuman strength, but slamming it down at 33 m/s would, but again a character moving their fist at Subsonic speeds requires superhuman strength as well, which would make all punches fictional characters throw open for KE calcs, which doesn't really make sense.

Also, mass is a constant here (equals mass of the girl), so momentum is seriously only affected by the velocity at which a character moves.

Don't have a problem with the rest of your reply but her mass doesn't really need to change, just her whole body moving at that speed is enough.

This is just limited. A 10 kg object moving at 10 m/s speed would have the same amount of momentum as a 100 kg object moving at 1 m/s speed, yes, but not a 50 kg object, or to generalize, anything less than 100 kg at 1 m/s. So, a slower attack using more weight isn't always more damaging than a faster attack that uses a lesser one.

Don't disagree with this one, though I never said it would always have more momentum. I just said it's possible to reach higher momentum with less speed.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Well. I would agree and it might be good to say that an adult obviously is better than their kid versions and use biology as an explanation, but we are in COTE. Tsukishiro, or let's take a WR instructor in general who will be in their 40s or 50s gets done by a 9-year-old Ayanokouji, so sadly enough, body physiology doesn't really apply to COTE that much, also, Ayanokouji has an undisclosed and a supernatural source of power which is narratively confirmed. His overall strength is not dependent on anything like muscle or body.

I'd say Cote mostly follows IRL logic.
9 y/o Koji is strong enough to destroy adults is because he recieved WR training (which was designed to create perfect humans) and he was born a 'Genius of Adaptability', meaning he could adapt to the harsh training and master things faster than anyone should have been able to master them. That's why even at 9 he was able to achieve superhuman feats.

Prime (14 y/o) Koji is much stronger than kid koji because he trained in the WR for an additional 5 years becoming more skilled and got stronger by getting older. 16 y/o koji stated he got weaker than his prime because he spent a year in his dad's manshion and another year in ANHS where he didn't get the perfect diet and training like he did in the WR. There is only a 2 year gap between Prime and Current koji so it makes sense that the lack of training would have an effect on his physical abilities, also the gap in strength won't be anything insane like Prime being twice as strong as Current.

At best on a scale of 1-100:
If Prime is 100 then Current would be 75-80 while Kid will be somewhere around a 50-60.

 

[RoggerReggor]

The rule isn't talking about force so idk really, just weight in general.

Maybe so.

Generalizing superhuman weights isn't necessarily good as well.

Don't have a problem with the rest of your reply but her mass doesn't really need to change, just her whole body moving at that speed is enough.

I mean, I did say this:

mass is a constant here

So yes, mass cannot change of course lol.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'd say Cote mostly follows IRL logic.
9 y/o Koji is strong enough to destroy adults is because he recieved WR training (which was designed to create perfect humans) and he was born a 'Genius of Adaptability', meaning he could adapt to the harsh training and master things faster than anyone should have been able to master them. That's why even at 9 he was able to achieve superhuman feats.

That's not IRL logic at all.

A 9-year-old cannot do crap against an adult IRL (I am talking about a professional fighter), no matter the amount of training they receive. The body of a 9-year-old doesn't have the necessary building up which can

Prime (14 y/o) Koji is much stronger than kid koji because he trained in the WR for an additional 5 years becoming more skilled and got stronger by getting older. 16 y/o koji stated he got weaker than his prime because he spent a year in his dad's manshion and another year in ANHS where he didn't get the perfect diet and training like he did in the WR. There is only a 2 year gap between Prime and Current koji so it makes sense that the lack of training would have an effect on his physical abilities, also the gap in strength won't be anything insane like Prime being twice as strong as Current.

At best on a scale of 1-100:
If Prime is 100 then Current would be 75-80 while Kid will be somewhere around a 50-60.

That's just assuming. We don't know how much Ayanokouji's strength degraded. He himself said that it was to the point where he couldn't even compare his current self to his physical prime.

And talking about the kid key, Suzukake also mentioned that a person who went the training of the rest of the years would be a monster compared to their previous selves.

Juding by the weight of both the statements, Prime key somehow seems like low-diffing (at max) both the keys. Though idk really.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I was thinking of making a CRT to add these abilities to koji's profile.

Limited Attack Redirection
via Aikido.
He can parry attacks and change their trajectory. Controled Ibuki's movements. (Alternate link)
And aikido's whole thing is using the opponent's momentum to fling them into different directions.


Other characters who'll get this ability: Ichika, Yagami, Shiro, Yuki and Manabu

Changing Limited Resistance to Fear Inducement to Limited Resistance to Fear Inducement and Emotions
Ayanokoji has no emotions so he should have the same level of resistance that he has for fear towards other emotions.

Adding Bow User to the Current Key
He can use a bow now.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Limited Attack Redirection
via Aikido.
He can parry attacks and change their trajectory. Controled Ibuki's movements. (Alternate link)
And aikido's whole thing is using the opponent's momentum to flung them into different directions.

I think this is great.

Other characters who'll get this ability: Ichika, Yagami, Shiro, Yuki and Manabu

I think only Manabu, probably due to his Aikido experience. But yes, I do plan to work with Zetsu to remove Ichika, Yagami, Shiro and Yuki scaling to Kiyotaka's martial arts.

Changing Limited Resistance to Fear Inducement to Limited Resistance to Fear Inducement and Emotions
Ayanokoji has no emotions so he should have the same level of resistance that he has for fear towards other emotions.

EM is a supernatural ability. And according to the standards, it would be just bad to give it to every other emotionless person. And narratively, Kiyotaka does have emotions (a bit), it's just that he's either very good at managing them, or is not really feeling them.

Adding Bow User to the Current Key
He can use a bow now.

His kid key shouldn't scale to the bow feats at all. He only learnt it at the age of 17. So I think it should be just replaced.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

That's not IRL logic at all.

A 9-year-old cannot do crap against an adult IRL (I am talking about a professional fighter), no matter the amount of training they receive. The body of a 9-year-old doesn't have the necessary building up which can

That's why I said 'mostly'. The reason Koji can win that fight is because he recieved WR training and his opponents didn't.
17 y/o koji recieved the same training as 9 y/o koji but for 5 more years so he should be better.

That's just assuming. We don't know how much Ayanokouji's strength degraded. He himself said that it was to the point where he couldn't even compare his current self to his physical prime.

And talking about the kid key, Suzukake also mentioned that a person who went the training of the rest of the years would be a monster compared to their previous selves.

Juding by the weight of both the statements, Prime key somehow seems like low-diffing (at max) both the keys. Though idk really.

Damn... Prime Koji built different.
I always thought prime and current were somewhat relative in power.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

I think this is great.

I think only Manabu, probably due to his Aikido experience. But yes, I do plan to work with Zetsu to remove Ichika, Yagami, Shiro and Yuki scaling to Kiyotaka's martial arts.

Cool.

EM is a supernatural ability. And according to the standards, it would be just bad to give it to every other emotionless person. And narratively, Kiyotaka does have emotions (a bit), it's just that he's either very good at managing them, or is not really feeling them.

We can remove the link to EM or maybe replace it with Social Influencing. His good emotion management is why I recomended the ability. He should be able to resist feeling other emotions like anger or sadness that could negatively impact him in a confrontation.

His kid key shouldn't scale to the bow feats at all. He only learnt it at the age of 17. So I think it should be just replaced.

I was saying we should add bow user to his current key not kid since he can now use a bow, a weapon he didn't learn in the WR.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Random question. (I'm totally not making a vs thread rn)
Who do you guys think is smarter, Ayanokoji or Senku?

 

[Dinozxd]

Random question. (I'm totally not making a vs thread rn)
Who do you guys think is smarter, Ayanokoji or Senku?

I think that Senku is more intelligent, but Ayankouji has a better chance of winning an outsmarting battle simply cuz he's more cunning, manipulative and better at effecting other people's emotions.

 

[DeltaStriker22]

Made a new profile for Ryuuen.

Ryuuen Gang profile

vsbattles.fandom.com

How is it?

 

[DeltaStriker22]

New koji match.

3700+ Y/o Scientist vs The Perfect Human (0-0-0)

Ishigami Senku vs Kiyotaka Ayanokōji Rules: Speed is not equalised. Starting Distance: 500 meters Location: Random Uninhabited Island (Diameter: 1000 meters) 1 day prep time. No prior knowledge. Senku's equipment: Medusa with Primitive Radio and a Megaphone, a jar of Nitroglycerin with 50...

vsbattles.com

 

[RoggerReggor]

Random question. (I'm totally not making a vs thread rn)
Who do you guys think is smarter, Ayanokoji or Senku?

Kiyotaka negs. Not only does he narratively possess a greater knowledge (which is basically the character path of Senku), but also, he is much more intelligent (even in general intelligence). Senku's 3700 years feat is nothing, literally a grain of salt against memory recollection.