Classroom Of The Elite - Ayanokouji and Kouenji's upgrade

[XxZetsuxX]

I believe this is a clear cut enough to be considered a minor CRT

Basically, This calc has been accepted which scales to Kouenji and Ayanokouji in both AP and Durability

Since Ayanokouji is on par with Kouenji

Staff agreement

Staff agree - DarkDragonMedeus

Staff disagree -

Staff neutral -

 

[RoggerReggor]

I believe without any kind of proofs; this would pretty much only scale to durability. So, we can use the statement of Ayanokouji vs Kouenji being close in the latest volume. Both can hurt each other, and not receive much damage upon Newton's third law (basically the law which supports AP = durability). Agreed with this.

 

[Vzearr]

I believe this is a clear cut enough to be considered a minor CRT

Basically, This calc has been accepted which scales to Kouenji and Ayanokouji in both AP and Durability

Since Ayanokouji is on par with Kouenji

Staff agreement

Staff agree -

Staff disagree -

Staff neutral -

1. Isn't this an anime only feat?
2. Doesn't this assume there was nothing to break his fall? He jumps into trees.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

1. Isn't this an anime only feat?

Again with this? We accept anime feats

2. Doesn't this assume there was nothing to break his fall? He jumps into trees.

Reggor legit gave you an explanation in the previous thread on why that wasn't the case

 

[Vzearr]

Again with this? We accept anime feats

Where?!

Reggor legit gave you an explanation in the previous thread on why that wasn't the case

I've never discussed this with him, what are you talking about.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Where?!

I've never discussed this with him, what are you talking about.

Oh, It was Dino then, Mb, Still, Just go to the previous thread and check what he said

 

[RoggerReggor]

1. Isn't this an anime only feat?

Kouenji narratively did dangerous things. He actually went far away from the group in light novel and Ayanokouji was also sent to bring Kouenji back to the group. Read the novel. This being an anime feat doesn't prove the fact that it goes in aligning with the novel. I have even told you how the anime also revealed about Kouenji's entire childhood training in literally a preview of the episode, a thing which was never mentioned in the novel, but the recent volumes actually use that information. The anime can be ultimately used to scale, unless it directly goes against the character natures and settings.

This goes as the same argument about how Ryuuen's group vs Ayanokouji in Season 2 Episode 12 shouldn't be used to scale distances and extra attack feats from Ryuuen shouldn't be used only because the fight in the novel took place in a rooftop and in the anime, it took place in a warehouse (even though 90% of the fight was the same, and some things such as "repeated attacks" even hint the off-screen nature of the fight).

2. Doesn't this assume there was nothing to break his fall? He jumps into trees.

He doesn't. Seeing from sides, the trees look very near to each other, but a horizontal view from the ground level reveals that the trees are in reality really spaced from each other, except for being really huge.

Either way, your argument would just be "Kouenji miraculously doesn't get any sharp tears in his clothes or even highly dusted clothes while using 15-20-meter-long trees to break his falls.". For which, it would also mean that Kouenji remains uninjured in the process. You need to take this seriously. He, at the least possesses 50 kilojoules of potential energy being actively converted to kinetic energy while he falls, even if he used the tree to break his fall, it doesn't explain how he is jumping with that much of force on a literal conifer which are known for having needle like leaves and spines on the branches. There's basically no chance that he survives that being uninjured or having no signs of what he did on his clothes.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Where?!

We usually don't accept a composited profile unless the sources are confirmed or can be proven as canon, like with the FT anime. Generally we just use anime feats as supporting evidence for an exist LN feat.


Though this can always be a case where the different mediums are canonical to each other.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

We usually don't accept a composited profile unless the sources are confirmed or can be proven as canon, like with the FT anime. Generally we just use anime feats as supporting evidence for an exist LN feat.


Though this can always be a case where the different mediums are canonical to each other.

Can i put you on agree (I'm assuming this means you agree, I apologize if i got it wrong)

 

[Vzearr]

Kouenji narratively did dangerous things. He actually went far away from the group in light novel and Ayanokouji was also sent to bring Kouenji back to the group. Read the novel. This being an anime feat doesn't prove the fact that it goes in aligning with the novel. I have even told you how the anime also revealed about Kouenji's entire childhood training in literally a preview of the episode, a thing which was never mentioned in the novel, but the recent volumes actually use that information. The anime can be ultimately used to scale, unless it directly goes against the character natures and settings.

This doesn't change the fact that the Light Novel mentions nothing about him jumping down almost 100 meters. Literally nothing.

This goes as the same argument about how Ryuuen's group vs Ayanokouji in Season 2 Episode 12 shouldn't be used to scale distances and extra attack feats from Ryuuen shouldn't be used only because the fight in the novel took place in a rooftop and in the anime, it took place in a warehouse (even though 90% of the fight was the same, and some things such as "repeated attacks" even hint the off-screen nature of the fight).

The thing is, if the author isn't supervising it, then these things are just made up by the studio and shouldn't be used.

He doesn't. Seeing from sides, the trees look very near to each other, but a horizontal view from the ground level reveals that the trees are in reality really spaced from each other, except for being really huge.

1. Could you show me this view.
2. This isn't proof that he didn't have his fall stopped.

Either way, your argument would just be "Kouenji miraculously doesn't get any sharp tears in his clothes or even highly dusted clothes while using 15-20-meter-long trees to break his falls.". For which, it would also mean that Kouenji remains uninjured in the process. You need to take this seriously. He, at the least possesses 50 kilojoules of potential energy being actively converted to kinetic energy while he falls, even if he used the tree to break his fall, it doesn't explain how he is jumping with that much of force on a literal conifer which are known for having needle like leaves and spines on the branches. There's basically no chance that he survives that being uninjured or having no signs of what he did on his clothes.

1. Cleaning yourself off exists.
2. Animation studios being inconsistent and garbage with details is extremely common, this is a key example: Here we see Ryuen's blood splattered on the floor and then 10 seconds later the blood has miraculously disappeared.

 

[RoggerReggor]

This doesn't change the fact that the Light Novel mentions nothing about him jumping down almost 100 meters. Literally nothing.

The thing is, if the author isn't supervising it, then these things are just made up by the studio and shouldn't be used.

The author actively works on the anime as he himself said at the time of the adaptation announcement that he wouldn't let the efforts of the production team of the anime go to waste (basically implying that he is also working in the team). What now? Does this really make the feat more applicable for you?

1. Could you show me this view.

As Kouenji talks with Ayanokouji when he is with the dead boar, we see that there actually are spots where there is little to no tree density. You very well know that.

2. This isn't proof that he didn't have his fall stopped.

I didn't say this either. The thing is, I debated with Dino about this earlier and he somehow did (or maybe didn't) imply that the fall on the trees was inevitable, so if there are spaces between the vegetation area, then of course, the fall can still be done on the ground.

1. Cleaning yourself off exists.

You cannot clean bruises and tears, which are inevitable, unless a miracle were to really happen.

2. Animation studios being inconsistent and garbage with details is extremely common, this is a key example: Here we see Ryuen's blood splattered on the floor and then 10 seconds later the blood has miraculously disappeared.

Some inconsistency in the scenes doesn't falsify the fact that the anime itself doesn't miss upon important details. Kouenji being injured or in a bad shape by landing on a tree is literally an important information. Also, the scene you are nitpicking, the anime at the very least showed blood spatters earlier. We never saw the bruises, so the argument that the anime studio actually did want him to do things according to your assumptions but animate their scenes as if he actually never got bruises is not the best of the arguments.

Secondly, I know that jumping on a conifer or vegetation like that has 90% chances of fatally harming me and minor injuries here and there are inevitable, so Kouenji, who is a high-level genius and basically narratively a much better student than even the top-ranked ones isn't a person who would take risks like this.

This argument is literally against the character nature. Kouenji cares about no one but only himself and takes part in only the challenges which give low risks, but high rewards certainly doesn't seem like the person who would go jumping around literal mountains, betting on that slight decimally small chances of actually getting no injuries.

 

[TheShape03]

Again with this? We accept anime feats

They shouldn't, some scenes in the anime are different from how they occur in the novel. They should be treated as different continuities. The anime is simply an adaptation, and several scenes were modified. Iirc, a while ago we rejected an anime feat where Ayanokouji grabs Manabu's arm before the latter hits Suzune, because in the novel the scene was totally different.

 

[RoggerReggor]

They shouldn't, some scenes in the anime are different from how they occur in the novel. They should be treated as different continuities. The anime is simply an adaptation, and several scenes were modified. Iirc, a while ago we rejected an anime feat where Ayanokouji grabs Manabu's arm before the latter hits Suzune, because in the novel the scene was totally different.

Treating them as different continuities isn't the best thing. We only don't take the Ayanokouji outspeeding Manabu feat and some feats as completely canon because even though they do arrive at the same character conclusions altogether, the things happening in them are slightly different from how they happen in the light novel. Also, the scene isn't "totally different", the only different thing is that Ayanokouji grabs Manabu's arm and then confronts him if he was going to throw his sister on the ground. The anime displays the scenes slightly different, so yes, the novel should be taken in place of it, whether the anime shows better achievements, or lesser ones, it doesn't matter. There's also the entire chess match where Ayanokouji's chess skills in the light novel prove to be massively better than what he shows in the anime. Treating things as different continuities means that they show different stories, which is not the case.

 

[TheShape03]

I don't agree with that, they are not the same continuity if the adaptation has notable differences in how certain events occur. Even if other events occur in the same way as in the original canon, the differences already mean that the adaptation cannot fit into the same canon continuity.

Now, one would say that "several scenes in the anime happen the same as in the novel" but in the same way I say "and there are other scenes that happen differently." So it would end up falling on you to prove that such a feat also occurred in the main canon.

So, I agree with using things from the anime to calculate feats from the novel. But using anime-only feats is a big no.

 

[Vzearr]

The author actively works on the anime as he himself said at the time of the adaptation announcement that he wouldn't let the efforts of the production team of the anime go to waste (basically implying that he is also working in the team). What now? Does this really make the feat more applicable for you?

This is applicable to season 1.

Kouenji talks with Ayanokouji when he is with the dead boar, we see that there actually are spots where there is little to no tree density. You very well know that.

You're assuming that's the area Koenji landed in?!

I didn't say this either. The thing is, I debated with Dino about this earlier and he somehow did (or maybe didn't) imply that the fall on the trees was inevitable, so if there are spaces between the vegetation area, then of course, the fall can still be done on the ground.

Though, looking at the scene where Koenji actually falls, it looks to be on trees.

Some inconsistency in the scenes doesn't falsify the fact that the anime itself doesn't miss upon important details. Kouenji being injured or in a bad shape by landing on a tree is literally an important information. Also, the scene you are nitpicking, the anime at the very least showed blood spatters earlier. We never saw the bruises, so the argument that the anime studio actually did want him to do things according to your assumptions but animate their scenes as if he actually never got bruises is not the best of the arguments.

Blood on the floor seems like an important detail when you put emphasis on it by making scenes of it splatter.

secondly, I know that jumping on a conifer or vegetation like that has 90% chances of fatally harming me and minor injuries here and there are inevitable, so Kouenji, who is a high-level genius and basically narratively a much better student than even the top-ranked ones isn't a person who would take risks like this.

What.

This argument is literally against the character nature. Kouenji cares about no one but only himself and takes part in only the challenges which give low risks, but high rewards certainly doesn't seem like the person who would go jumping around literal mountains, betting on that slight decimally small chances of actually getting no injuries.

You're assuming that he fell into a large gap between trees. Lets go 1 point at a time.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I don't agree with that, they are not the same continuity if the adaptation has notable differences in how certain events occur. Even if other events occur in the same way as in the original canon, the differences already mean that the adaptation cannot fit into the same canon continuity.

Now, one would say that "several scenes in the anime happen the same as in the novel" but in the same way I say "and there are other scenes that happen differently." So it would end up falling on you to prove that such a feat also occurred in the main canon.

So, I agree with using things from the anime to calculate feats from the novel. But using anime-only feats is a big no.

I half-agree with this.

The author works with the production team. Of course, the slightly modified scenes shouldn't be used. By this, I am referring to the scenes which don't go interpreted as the novel exactly described them. But at the same time, the slight details which don't matter in feats which differ from the anime and don't affect anything should also not be pinpointed. For example, I have seen people saying that distances from the anime in the Ryuuen vs Ayanokouji fight shouldn't be used because the fight in the anime took place in a warehouse while in the novel it took place on the rooftop, which is basically nitpicking.

It isn't like the anime shows its characters destroying planets while the novel goes in a Tier 9 superhuman format. I basically agree with the fact that the scenes in the anime which go differently from the novel in the same setting shouldn't be used. But at the same time, saying that we shouldn't use anything "extra" in the anime, whether it be information, narratives or even feats like what we are discussing now basically means that whatever the author reveals in the anime and tries to coordinate that information with the novel is bad in itself. It would mean that we are just restricting ourselves to one single source while the author works on three different sources.

This is applicable to season 1.

Watch the credits scene. It clearly says that the rights of the anime go to the production team and the original creation is made by Syougo Kinugasa, where it is under his supervision. Anyways, this is basically saying that he said it for Season 1 anime so he shouldn't be doing it for every season. And I do have a source which I think I will find and tell you that the author basically accepted that he agrees with how the scenes go.

You're assuming that's the area Koenji landed in?!

Though, looking at the scene where Koenji actually falls, it looks to be on trees.

The area he should physically fall in is covered by a cliff edge on the POV, so there's no real indication of where he fell.

Blood on the floor seems like an important detail when you put emphasis on it by making scenes of it splatter.

They showed it for at least once. It isn't like they showed the scars on his body for even once, so discard this argument bruh. There is zero indication of there being scars.

What.

Yes. It is literally against the character natures that he would take risk on harming himself in the first place.

You're assuming that he fell into a large gap between trees. Lets go 1 point at a time.

I am not assuming. It is what is supported by the geographical structure and the representation.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Well, screw everything.

By 2022, both Season 2 and Season 3 were already under production (Season 2 was getting aired already and Season 3 was under production and also scheduled). Sourcing from the author's interviews:

1.

I did participate at the script meeting, but I didn’t say anything in particular. I believe the producers have taken the time to read my work more careful than I did, and I also believe they are capable of producing the best possible outcome in the anime, so I trust on how they do it.

Newtype Interview (September 2022) - Season 2 was getting aired and Season 3 was under production

Script Writing involves writing and discussion of the script, along with the story boards. The author himself said that the script was really according to the anime. This also proves that he actively participates in the anime. He also gives extra information which he uses in his own novel as well, as mentioned earlier.

2.

There have been times where I check how a character’s personality gets well-established in the anime and I use it as feedback for my work. Especially Ayanokouji, who wasn’t well established as a character at first, but after seeing how well he was done in the anime, I used that “taste” from volume five onwards to refine the current persona that we all know.

Newtype Interview (September 2022) - Season 2 was getting aired and Season 3 was under production

Here, the author himself mentioned that he himself takes inspiration from the anime interpretations, such as Ayanokouji's personality changes, which is evident if you have read the novel.



So yes, the author basically agrees with the script and scenes shown in the anime, and agreed as well that it went really well with the story which he wants to tell us. So, this basically validates the things shown in the anime. About the things which somehow slightly contradict the stuff happening in the novel, I believe novel can be prioritized in that order.

 

[Vzearr]

The area he should physically fall in is covered by a cliff edge on the POV, so there's no real indication of where he fell.

From the angle we saw it looks like he fell into trees.

They showed it for at least once. It isn't like they showed the scars on his body for even once, so discard this argument bruh. There is zero indication of there being scars.

Just inconsistencies with studio animations, I can find more if you'd like.

Yes. It is literally against the character natures that he would take risk on harming himself in the first place.

Wouldn't it then be smarter to slide down the mountain or jump into trees then.

I am not assuming. It is what is supported by the geographical structure and the representation.

You are, that gap is an unquantifiable distance away from where he jumped.

 

[RoggerReggor]

From the angle we saw it looks like he fell into trees.

He didn't even run at speeds which can make him go about 10s of meters, from the angle or POV, we first see it as if he cannot even go past the cliff, but we do see him going past that. This is just POV problems.

Just inconsistencies with studio animations, I can find more if you'd like.

Inconsistencies mean drawing of a frame displaying something and drawing it differently in another frame. Inconsistencies are not equal to complete

Wouldn't it then be smarter to slide down the mountain or jump into trees then.

Both will result into injuries most of the times. I don't know why we are still debating this.

You are, that gap is an unquantifiable distance away from where he jumped.

It is quantifiable if we use projectile motion, it isn't unquantifiable. The camera had to literally shift upwards to show his going trajectory. It didn't look like he would make it where he did when the scene got cut from the first POV.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Nvm

 

[RoggerReggor]

2 Days have passed, With 1 staff vote on agree, I will apply the changes

Qawsed never justified or said that he agreed with the thread. So don't.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

We usually don't accept a composited profile unless the sources are confirmed or can be proven as canon, like with the FT anime. Generally we just use anime feats as supporting evidence for an exist LN feat.


Though this can always be a case where the different mediums are canonical to each other.

bump (Sorry for disturbing)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Looks good

Thank you for the eval