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Bloodlusted
Scenario 1: Base Cinder
Scenario 2: Cinder has full maiden powers
Who wins and why?
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Cinder Fall vs. Esdeath
- Thread starter SuperKamiNappa
- Start date
- Status
Bloodlusted
Scenario 1: Base Cinder
Scenario 2: Cinder has full maiden powers
Who wins and why?
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I'd say Cinder wins in both due to having superior stats in pretty much every area, particularly speed as she is MHS while Esdeath is HHS. The only thing Esdeath has as an advantage is her time stop that can be negated through cold resistance and possibly extreme heat such as that produced by lava dust. So Esdeath doesn't really stand a chance as she is blitzed, and overpowered greatly.
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Esdeath timestop spams. It's not as if Cinder is the only one who dodged lightning around here and MCB and CB is not really a big gap especially with time stop around.
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That's not what it says on the wiki. Though the idea of .... burning through a time freeze is strange. Then again I don't know Akame ga Kill enough probably.
And only realized it can be used once. Well either way Esdeath should snap Cinder's neck at base form. If it's Full Maiden form it's a toss-up.
And only realized it can be used once. Well either way Esdeath should snap Cinder's neck at base form. If it's Full Maiden form it's a toss-up.
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Cinder is faster than Esdeath, being MHS after-all. Both may also be equally strategic, Esdeath being a general that can command an army while Cinder being a tactician that brought down a freakin kingdom. So this could go either way really.
Even in Cinder's base form this could still be a good match, but in the end I've got to go with Cinder for superier speed and basically being a counter to Esdeath's powers. I'd also like to point out that Esdeath never really goes full power from the start, and decides to play with her enemy, which will probably play a part in her demise by a fire blast to the face.
(To be fair though, when Cinder got her full maiden powers, she was practically toying with Pyrrha, not really showing her true power, so we can say both will be equally cocky on round 2.)
Even in Cinder's base form this could still be a good match, but in the end I've got to go with Cinder for superier speed and basically being a counter to Esdeath's powers. I'd also like to point out that Esdeath never really goes full power from the start, and decides to play with her enemy, which will probably play a part in her demise by a fire blast to the face.
(To be fair though, when Cinder got her full maiden powers, she was practically toying with Pyrrha, not really showing her true power, so we can say both will be equally cocky on round 2.)
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And also it's explicitly stated that Madapadhma can only be used once a day, so timestop spamming isn't exactly an option.
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I said in response that I realized
And only realized it can be used once.
Looking at it that way well Maiden Cinder should take the win then.
Only thing I'm arguing about now is Cinder bringing a kingdom down when it's still standing. Either way yeah timestop was the only thing Esdeath has going for her so she loses on 2nd round
And only realized it can be used once.
Looking at it that way well Maiden Cinder should take the win then.
Only thing I'm arguing about now is Cinder bringing a kingdom down when it's still standing. Either way yeah timestop was the only thing Esdeath has going for her so she loses on 2nd round
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Well, not really bringing Vale down as in physically, but most of the inhabitants are gone, there's no explicit leading order there now, and there's just a crap ton of Grimm roaming the area.
Edit: Whoops, that's just the school. Here's some more pics of the actual city:
Vale being overrun (This was Cinder's plan)
Edit: Whoops, that's just the school. Here's some more pics of the actual city:
Vale being overrun (This was Cinder's plan)
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As for base Cinder, her striking strength is at GJ+ while Esdeath is at GJ, and again MHS base for Cinder in speed while fire effectively negates anything Esdeath can do with her ice. As for burning through Esdeath's time freeze note the candles in the room, they were still lit after the freeze and during it indicating that her freeze has no effect on even tiny flames.
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The only speed feat cited in Cinder page is blocking Ruby shots. But there is no reason to think it's not aim dodging (or aim-blocking to be precise). So when has Cinder showed MHS ?Lionrp said:
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Cinder is scaled to Mercury Black who dodged lightning.MasterChefTony said:
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So looking at some other lightning dodges, this feat came from approx 75 meters,going by the calc Esdeath has at high end mach 31 reactions and low end mach 7. Mercury's feat came from around 2.3 meters away putting him at around mach 224. So Cinder is between 7.2 times faster for high end and 32 times faster by low end calcs.
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How can Esdeath can stomp time before Cinder kills her?
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There is a specific feat in regards to Esdeath that may change the tip here. I suggest people wait before giving inputs on this battle.
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What feat would that be, we've seen all her best, so unless she gets another powerup before the end of AGK she doesn't stand a chance. Besids speed, she can't even approach Cinder due to the heat of lava, Ice vaporizes at temperatures of 100c or greater, blood boils at around 125c and bone melts at 1670c, natural lava is at least 600c and gets up to 1200c.
Simply being near Cinder attacks would disintegrate her as Cinder's lava gives off at least 418.4 gigajoules (being MCB in ap) of energy, in terms of heat produced a single gigajoule gives off 526565c so Cinder's lava would produce over 217 million c. In comparison a hydrogen bomb gives off 100 million c.
Simply being near Cinder attacks would disintegrate her as Cinder's lava gives off at least 418.4 gigajoules (being MCB in ap) of energy, in terms of heat produced a single gigajoule gives off 526565c so Cinder's lava would produce over 217 million c. In comparison a hydrogen bomb gives off 100 million c.
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again, lightning from 6 meters from the ground?Crazystarf said:
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And we haven't see all of Cinder can doDrellix said:
So, based on both "at least" on their profiles
Cinder wins
Via blitzing and major AP and Durability
Also, we can't just especulate her power
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Creating a trump card can't be done in the heat of battle. Incursio Tats only managed to keep up with Esdeath via Evolved form, his original one wasn't doing much, so I don't think she got stronger. She only got craftier with her powers.
R1: Esdesu via versatility of powers.
R2: Cinder via hotstuff pushing the limits of Esdeath's cool.
R1: Esdesu via versatility of powers.
R2: Cinder via hotstuff pushing the limits of Esdeath's cool.
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Cinder is Mach 300+ in base thoughLionrp said:
The different is that we dont know when Akame and Esdeath reacted to that
Mercury and Emerald didnt move until the lightning was close to them
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True, as we can actually see when Emerald and Mercury move, though with Esdeath and Akame its kind of up in the air as said feat seems to be an outlier and we have no other speed feat that puts them in HHS speeds. Furthermore, with Cinder being able to blitz Ruby, a character who could outspeed Mercury we can safely say that Cinder is the faster combatant here.
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How can you say how fast were the lighting in both cases ?
Why is everybody supposing that the characters are incredibly fast and not that is the lighting to be incredibly slow ?
Why is everybody supposing that the characters are incredibly fast and not that is the lighting to be incredibly slow ?
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You can't be seriousMasterChefTony said:
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I'm absolutely serious.KaenDragneel123 said:
What's the source of the lighting speed ? And don't say "real phisics" because if we want to apply real phisics friction doesn't allow people to move sideways at Mach 200. With super strength you could jump vertically at ridicolous speed but not dodge sideways.
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For here we use the lightning speed of 440km/s, or ~Mach 1290, assuming it is cloud-to-ground lightning. Remember that this value is constant and does not change.
Also, since fictional characters break the rules of physics sometimes, I guess we can overlook situations that break the laws of physics a bit, I guess.
Also, since fictional characters break the rules of physics sometimes, I guess we can overlook situations that break the laws of physics a bit, I guess.
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We have characters dodging lighting, wich is impossible in the real world. So the lighting is slower, or the people is faster or both. Why have you choosen the 2nd ? If fictional worlds have fictional phisics how can you be sure that lighting works the same ?Crazystarf said:
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We have characters dodging lighting, wich is impossible in the real world. So the lighting is slower, or the people is faster or both. Why have you choosen the 2nd ? If fictional worlds have fictional phisics how can you be sure that lighting works the same ?
That requires the least assumptions. If we assume lightning is slower than in real world, we must also assume that other physical constants can be different, rendering calcs pointless as we need all physical constants to be explicitly stated. Here, we need to assume that physical constants are as in the real world unless otherwise stated.
Furthermore, considering that superhuman speed and reflexes are explicitly stated in series as a product of aura, it's safe to conclude that they are faster.
That requires the least assumptions. If we assume lightning is slower than in real world, we must also assume that other physical constants can be different, rendering calcs pointless as we need all physical constants to be explicitly stated. Here, we need to assume that physical constants are as in the real world unless otherwise stated.
Furthermore, considering that superhuman speed and reflexes are explicitly stated in series as a product of aura, it's safe to conclude that they are faster.
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- Thread starter
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Unless I'm counting wrong I count 2 votes Cinder, 1 vote Esdeath.
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You have to remember that some characters in fiction have insane reaction/combat speeds, meaning that they view fast objects such as bullets and lightning bolts slow compared to regular humans (which we can't even see). Hell, we have some characters that can even react to things moving faster than the speed of light!
Let's say for example, if your perception of time has slowed down considerably enough to see bullets/lightning in relatively slow motion, you would be able to dodge it, right? In RWBY, we have characters that can easily dodge and react to incredibly fast bullets and even lightning; we don't know how they are able to do it, except it is shown that they could do so.
So, my thoughts on this is that unless the speed of lightning is actually given, we assume that the lightning moves at actual lightning speed. If we see a character dodge that lightning bolt, we assume that the character in question has actually dodged that lightning bolt unless shown otherwise (aimdodging).
Applying real life physics entirely in a fictional universe brings more questions than answers, so we just analyze what is shown and roll with it, I guess.
Let's say for example, if your perception of time has slowed down considerably enough to see bullets/lightning in relatively slow motion, you would be able to dodge it, right? In RWBY, we have characters that can easily dodge and react to incredibly fast bullets and even lightning; we don't know how they are able to do it, except it is shown that they could do so.
So, my thoughts on this is that unless the speed of lightning is actually given, we assume that the lightning moves at actual lightning speed. If we see a character dodge that lightning bolt, we assume that the character in question has actually dodged that lightning bolt unless shown otherwise (aimdodging).
Applying real life physics entirely in a fictional universe brings more questions than answers, so we just analyze what is shown and roll with it, I guess.
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Except that to have people move sideways at mach 40 you have to change how thrust works. This means change the Newton's laws of motion, that are the foundation of physics. Changing these laws would make a very different universe.LordKill90908 said:
Supepowers could make people strong and tough, but unless it could change how friction between the foot and the ground works people can't run at mach 40 (let alone mach 200). This is easy to understand if you think that when you run you basically make little jumps. Because you give a push up AND forward. So a running supehuman can't stay near the ground: it would make jumps of dozens/hundreds of meters.
In both scenes the lighting is a product of the powers of some character, so it's not a natural lighting. You can say that the lighting is slower than the real one and you would have no consistency problems with the show.
You can say: "Hey but the caracters were alredy shown to be very fast." This is true, but I don't remember any feat that would make them THAT fast.
Here stays the fallacy. You have applied real phisics to the lighting and not to the thrust. Why ? Because the characters have dodged bullets ? You don't even need to be supesonic to dodge bullets.Crazystarf said:
The problem I see is that we need a common ground to calculate characters feat. So we need to equalize something to the real world. But how we decide what thing should be equal to the real world ? Why don't we use gravity acceleration for example ?
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