Kamen rider black vs esdeath

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I mean yea, but OP is the OP so he can declare grace when it's over. Currently, we need 7 more hours till grace.

I already declared grace several hours ago

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

I already declared grace several hours ago

So right now we just wait for oven or zeed to come huh ?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

So right now we just wait for oven or zeed to come huh ?

Ovens since zeed has already given his stuff . It might take a staff’s opinion honestly at this point

 

[Shadowslash125]

I already declared grace several hours ago

Then this thread is over then I guess. You declared grace yesterday, right? with the knockout thing?

A shame cuz I was cooking something up.

 

[Kamenriderblaze]

@Sir_Ovens

 

[ZeedKZ]

?

Re-read as much as you want to.

How does this mean a range advantage? In what way does ES, clairvoyance or ANPR harm Esdeath directly?

Range mustn't necessarily be harmful to take as advantage though. Black's sensorial range advantage will only allow him to have a awareness to every move that Esdeath can or will perform, along with everything that comes with it.

Okay, Esdeath doesn't need to move to flash freeze

By "move" I mean any muscular action, not moving from point X to point Y. I haven't seen anything indicating that she can use her ice powers without moving any part of her body.

How is that versatility? Versatility comes from having multiple options, ways, abilities to attack.
Interesting how the latter part of this isn't relevant ro the vs. "2-A vehicular summoning" and? How's that gonna help him here? The ANPR of road sector you mentioned holds no meaning either, it's not like Esdeath uses stealth or snipes from hundreds of meters away. Sensing enemies too? There's only 1 enemy and they're within 6m of each other.
Please only mention things relevant to the match. None of this makes him a match for Esdeath in h2h, swordskills etc.

Attributes such as jumping, ability to move, and the simple act of thinking in a short period of time are all factors in versatility. I don't know what your point is here. I mentioned 2-A summoning just to reinforce that Black can summon the vehicles anywhere, not that the fact that it's 2-A would be useful here, otherwise my text wouldn't go point by point. Road Sector's ANPR was also to maintain that Esdeath would never be out of Black's field of vision, and I don't understand this weird mindset of "if they're close then it won't make a difference"... when does it? Compound eyes even in the animal kingdom are absurdly helpful, especially when there are short distances between a target. And no, I'm going to mention everything that might come in handy, whether you like it or not, then the problem goes elsewhere.

Hwaht?

Re-read as much as you want to.²

feats of the mammoth mutants ice being comparable to Esdeath's? Has it frozen stuff solid such that they fall apart? Resisting Ice manipulation at a certain temp doesn't mean he can resist Esdeath's that's way colder. Same way resisting 700°c fire doesn't make you impervious to every amount of heat.

At no point did you even bother to show any temperature for Esdeath, in which the only thing that differentiates it from Mammoth Mutant is the greater creative freedom and scope (which don't help much here regardless). The temperature to make ice quickly freeza a target is -196°C. flash freezing, and curiously, it's the same temperature that can create ice from the air itself in seconds and freeze a human being completely, which is what Mammoth Mutant does lmao.

Cool, low-godly regen/resurrection ain't on the profile. Get it there before using it.

Regenerating a soul from a corpse is not Low-Godly.

You've been on this foeum and wiki longer than I have. There's several forms of dura neg infact, every hax is durability negating but resisting those hax is not the same as resisting dura neg. Corrosion, deconstruction, spatial manipulation are separate haxes that have their individual resistances. None of that remotely equals becoming brittle from exposure to sub-zero temperatures.

The difference is that Black also resists sub-zero temperatures in addition to all the effects of deconstruction, internal attacks and so on. What's your point? And my time here is irrelevant.

The OP said he doesn't have the satansaber so he doesn't. It becomes a stomp if he does so stop bringing it up. Now you're trying to say resisting life and soul manipulation= resisting conventional dura neg? Once again, they ain't the same goes for transmutation (yeah, being rurned into gold is transmutation not petrification)

Calm down calabreso. And what? Why are you lying again? OP didn't included that Satansaber is restricted. If he said somewhere here around this thread, then that should be edited to the OP. And stop strawmanning me, I argued about life/soul hacks resistance in relation to Esdeath being unable to destroy the Kingstone, and therefore preventing all its effects from continuing to work regardless of Black's will or state. (And yes, transmutation to gold is petrification, Bill Cipher has petrification for this reason). I used these instances to argue that because Black has withstood equivalent/superior attacks to what was seen from Esdeath, the ice would be an insufficient hindrance for Black not to be able to circumvent it.

There's no amalgamation Esdeath just has temperature manipulation and control over ice. What you deem as status induction, deconstruction are natural side effects from exposure to extreme cold. Look up how exposure to liquid nitrogen can cause steel to shatter

If a specific powers brings several other effects like the ones I mentioned, then it kinda is a mix between these abilities, not that fact is relevant at all here though.

None of them has Esdeath powers. If he doesn't resist, he isn't resist. Quit the over generalization.

Another straw man on your part, at no time did I mention that they have the power of ice, but rather that they can reach internal points and weaken their opponents, the latter being one of the things that Esdeath's ice does. That and the fact that you don't even use the word "generalization" correctly.

Which is of any importance how? Bringing up irrelevant stuff like 2-A realms is a desperate attempt to sound impressive. Being able to just tp even 10 meters is more relevant than this to the fight. Now even of he teleports, how does that help him when his dead? Biological processes stop, his cells are dead from being frozen even if the Tp/ dimensional travel activates, he's still dead.

In fact, the only desperate thing here is your intense attitude of complaining about the micro and macro of my text, insisting that "tHaTs'S nOt ReLeVaNt", if I bring things that could be useful, I'll send them, regardless of whether you want me to or not. You can't just be immature because of your inelegant message to those who gave FRA earlier, but now you accuse me of "wanting to be elegant" just because I describe something in more detail? Wake up, we're on a battleboarding forum, you'll see the whole ******* thing here. At most, I can only see dimensional travel being irrelevant if both are at the same distance at all times, which everyone knows is not the case. Nothing stops Black from being able to go to the Mirror World if necessary, it's useful if he wants to completely avoid all her attacks without any risk. Any ice effect has already been proven to be useless.

More irrelevant stuff. No one has argued for TS as a wincon. It's plain to see he resists.

Key words: "out", "of", "question".

Different applications of an ability. Hormones are chemical secretions, Esdeath uses Aura. Resisting biological mind manipulation (bain) ≠ resisting the metaphysical type.

Is there absolutely nothing metaphysical about Esdeath's? LMAO, do you even know what that word means? The only thing that is altered is the application, apart from that, all the manipulation of madness is through influencing brain cells to act out of control. The Coward Hormone is a chemical substance with effects even worse than Esdeath's fear-inducing aura, while Esdeath emanates these effects invisibly and untouchably. You assume that having these characteristics is "metaphysical", so I have nothing to do but feel a lot.

How is any of that dealing with her predictions? AD to use abilities is suddenly the same as AD to develop fighting skills? Bring his combat feats please cause for now, the punch kick merchant isn't even touching her.

I ironically bring you the whole series, since Black starts out as inexperienced from the beginning, and in just the first fight he's already gotten rid of 2-3 kaijins without any problems. But anyway, that was just a supporting point, but AD is the lesser of two evils here.

Nope, that's how we operate. We don't assume one instance of power null can nullify every ability regardless of its mechanism. Welcome to Vs wiki

Your headcanon does not reflect what VS Battles actually considers in these instances. If a power whose description is to nullify/deflect/deny attacks, and its instances demonstrate to affect physical, energetic or spiritual structures, Occam's Razor allows me to say that yes, ice would be within that. Don't come up with that misconception again. There is no "we" there.

Okay, assuming he uses this as a second move and Esdeath can't control Ice anymore, her first flash freeze with him frozen is still there as a first move. The ice she initially created isn't going to be nullified.

He usually uses it as a starter at the moment. If Esdeath can even release freezing gas (spoiler: she won't). Power Stripes will simply nullify the ice around him, regardless of whether the freezing is only external or internal. And yes, effects already created have been nullified, as I pointed out.

Not equal to physical stamina. How long can he fight before dehydration, muscle fatigue, shortness of breath sets in? How long can his brain go without needing to sleep? Stuff like this is physical stamina. Having an energy pool doesn't translate into that unless proven

Infinitely, and yes, it's the same as physical strength. Since everything that makes up your life and soul is infinite, and Black has never been shown to get tired in combat, it does apply to physical strength, because on occasions like this, I wouldn't even be allowed to add it without any problem, there have been revisions, they have been accepted, and so it will be until N-day. Your examples are completely futile here (and then I'm the one who brings irrelevant things here), we're talking about a being with infinite vital/spiritual/physical energy, he doesn't get tired, it's massively different from a conventional human being and his hypothetical energy capacities.

All addressed above. None of the hax you mentioned is equivalent to Esdeath's kind so it doesn't apply. What's the value of his ice resistance? Esdeath has feats that put her way above standard ice temperatures

Rebutted above, and another straw man. I'm saying the quite opposite that Esdeath has just standard ice manipulation temperatures, just like I'm saying about Mammoth Mutant's instance.

Still not physical stamina

Yes, it's physical strength, you saying it's not doesn't makes your point correct.

You brought up the range of his ES as an advantage so I ask, how does that help with cqc? Put another way, what's the point of a sniper scope against an enemy that's in your face with a dagger?

You've just agreed that you've read nothing about your sensory senses, or even how compound eyes work. You're assuming that the hypothetical shoelace would have a response time that exceeds that of the hypothetical opponent, when that's not the case, nor does the distance matter, if it's within the range of his sensory senses, he'll be picked up. Again, another completely illogical and incorrect point on your part.

You could just say the analogy flew over your head you know? You're claiming he can nullify naturally occurring phenomena i.e Esdeath's ice vanishing/being nullified after she creates it. To which I brought up the point of EE. If a landslide caused the earth to rise up will kingstone flash cause it to disappear, will it cause water shot out of a canon to disappear? Esdeath is sply freezing natural water and controlling it. Why will power null just cause the water to disappear/unfreeze? Why will the movement vectors applied to it just stop despite inertia being a thing?

Or you could simply admit that your own analogy is completely nonsensical. It will be certain element disappearing by an EXPLICIT property of Kingstone Flash is not remotely close to EE. I'm sorry, but that was a pretty stupid analogy, not least because the events you cited don't even amount to offensive attacks, you're twisting a simple point to create a narrative that makes sense in your head. ANYTHING that is an offensive attack (i.e. coming from an outside source with the focus and purpose of attacking you), the Kingstone Flash will nullify. Don't compare natural events with this again.

His "range" as you claim is literally just with ES. How is ES landing a punch / kick on Esdeath? You don't know how to make viable arguments and you're accusing me of lying.

Silence. Tatsumi is discovering that "range" refers to a spatial distance in units of measurement varying in cm, m, or beyond, and not that it is only exclusively for offensive skills. It's starting to become really hard in taking anything you've mention as "viable" as you were outright lying about his range and AP.

No, y'all FRA trained before a single argument for Esdeath was even made. Get your facts straight.

Because no one came to defend Esdeath, so my arguments defending Black that were convincing in the eyes of these people voted for him. It's simple, the problem is that you're so immature when it comes to defending a character in Versus Matches but you forget that people are subject to being proven wrong. If everyone was voting for Esdeath, and only after a while, I came to defend Black, I wouldn't complain about who gave FRA. Grow up.

It's restricted now get over it

It's not. Get the OP edited and then we'll talk.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

btw, this match cant be added if one side of the arguements were never heard and there was a FRA train before supporters could arrive
This match is still very much ongoing

 

[ZeedKZ]

There were 7-8 votes for Black even after the "FRA train", but I don't care enough for this matchup being added or not.