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i can have a more in-depth look later, but one thing i see immediately:
why're you using the entire surface area of the cone instead of just the base area?
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Chainsaw Man Upgrades
- Thread starter GunshyFever
- Start date
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why're you using the entire surface area of the cone instead of just the base area?
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Am I suppose to for that part? How exactly does this find energy in the third dimension than?
If I use the base area nothing changes, the results are exactly the same as the destruction.
194.7205/194.7205*38259896652 = 38259896652 Joules or 9.144 Tons of TNT.
Doesn't matter how faraway he is at that point. Now you've confused me more, last time I did something similar I was told it was alright.
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Ah, it's being discussed here. Regarding your latest comment, the SA's check out. You just didn't calculate the distance Denji was away from the origin of the soundwave (Bat Devils mouth). Which would decrease Denji's durability for surviving it quite a bit.
Plus, as stated above, if you used the base area, then distance would be entirely irrelevant, as the energy at the source will always be the same as the energy at the edge of the attack... which is obviously an issue. At least for something like a soundwave anyway.
Pretty sure Inverse square law dictates it'd spread out in a 3 Dimensional fashion, no? It'd be like saying to use the cross-sectional area of a sphere, or only the base of a hemispherical explosion (As opposed to the curved area which is spreading outwards). Pretty sure something that spreads out like a shockwave would spread out along the entire cones surface area instead of just the base.
Plus, as stated above, if you used the base area, then distance would be entirely irrelevant, as the energy at the source will always be the same as the energy at the edge of the attack... which is obviously an issue. At least for something like a soundwave anyway.
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i wouldn't use 7m
the link says tokyo's expressways are 3.25m in width, and the bat devil isn't fully across the 2nd lane - he's standing right in the middle of it
i would use 1.5x lane width + 1 metre (or so) for the sidewalk.
not at all.
for a hemisphere you'd use the curved surface area of the hemisphere.
for a sphere you'd use the area of the sphere.
those parts of the shape are where the wavefront/the-actual-part-of-the-explosion-where-pressure-is-being-applied is.
here, the side of the cone doesn't have any pressure on it. only the "front", i.e the base area.
think of a point source of light vs a focused laser. both could have the same initial brightness but at the same distance from the source, the laser will appear brighter because its light is focused and spreads out over a smaller area (thus meaning higher intensity).
GIGA TL;DR
you know the distance and area that energy was applied over to destroy the building (thus you can find the energy at the epicenter/source)
then (assuming a mathematically-similar cone, same shape proportionally but different dimensions) you can then use inverse-square law again but with denji's surface area and his distance from the bat devil along with the just-calculated energy-at-epicenter to get how much energy he tanked.
i feel like i've slightly overcomplicated the point i wanted to get across so if there's anything that isn't making sense please do tell me so i can try and rephrase myself.
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You didn't overcomplicate it. To be honest, I think your explanation was rather brief and easy to follow. That said, the issue comes in when you try to actually calculate a feat only using the base of the cone as elaborated here:
Given the area destroyed by the attack is equal in area to the base of the cone, the attacks energy at the point of origin will be equal to the energy at the edge of the attack. Which doesn't add up. Is this just an issue of the method Vs Wiki uses for ISL?
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i've just done like a page worth of scribbling to put my numbers on paper and i finally get what you mean, i think i was just misunderstanding you.
i think it's just how the method for ISL works? it seemingly assumes 0 energy loss and that the energy-at-epicenter is just spread out over a given area.
logically, with those assumptions, something that tanks the energy over the explosion's entire area would be tanking the full yield of the blast-at-epicenter, solely because there's no accounting for energy loss.
the same thing happens for a sphere too. imagine you let off a 1 Kiloton explosion in the center of a spherical room with R = 10m, for example. at 10m away, your explosion has an intensity of 0.7958 Tons/m^2.
your explosion would hit the entire room due to being just as wide, so multiply your intensity by the area of what's tanking it (1256.6m^2 * 0.7958 Tons/m^2) and you get 1000 Tons again.
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Ye of more patience than me.
That said, your conclusion makes sense. It would be all of the energy from the point of origin, just distributed over a far larger area. Said area would need to be smaller than the area of energy distributed to matter.
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precisely
so unless you plan on revising how ISL works wiki-wide it seems like that's what we have to run with
meaning rusty's math is (at first glance) correct.
just divide source explosion (which we now know is simply just the total energy from the damage) by the area of the shockwave at Denji-distance for intensity, and then multiply by Dennis Mansawchain's surface area for what he tanked.
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bump
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i just realized i forgot to actually leave a comment on the blog saying this.
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- Thread starter
- #51
Assuming this is the final decision?
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The distance Denji from the source of the soundwave wasn't yet accounted for. Only his surface area. His surface area and distance from the source should be calculated to get more realistic results in regards to his durability.
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- Thread starter
- #53
Regarding this I believe denji should have different keys, As denji further on in the manga is leagues above the bat devils total attack potency.
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I agree.
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I have no idea what you people want me to do. I do something and get told it's wrong. I change it, and I still get told it's wrong.
What am I suppose to do here?
What am I suppose to do here?
That needs to be saved for another thread.
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Sorry
I was basically just suggesting what the inverse square law page says in regard to Inverse Square Law. Since Denji is a couple meters away from the point of origin, the intensity at that distance should be measured, and then Denji's surface area should also be accounted for.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Inverse_Square_Law
The only difference is instead of a spherical area, you solve for the area of the base of a cone at the distance Denji is from it.
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I am using the base area of a cone at the distance Denji is from when it hits him.
Am I missing something here?
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Ah, I think I'm mistaken then. I didn't look at it hard enough. The math is good. Apologies for that.
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Easy solution would just be to scale him to his durability. He def fought people who could harm him, so he'd be able to scale AP-Wise.
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- Thread starter
- #62
Honestly I suggest we create new keys, Denji later on in the manga definitely scales far above the bat devils total AP. That including part 2 Denji and all hybrids as well as Makimas physical stats should scale to this as well.
Im suggesting
Key: Base | Katana Man Arc | Control Devil Arc | Part 2
I also suggest we remove Pochita and create his own page as they are completely different entities.
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- #63
Yeah this is actually a better idea
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What I'm saying is the portion that he tanked he doesnt scale to
since it one-shot him and forced him to revive
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- Thread starter
- #66
Yeah pretty much, Denji could easily shred and tear through the bat devil, punching him around while blitzing him like nothing. Denji should easily scale to the full blast.
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That'd create a weird circular scaling chain tho.
Denji > Bat Devil > Blast at the distance Denji took it > Denji.
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- #68
Honestly yeah this is a very good way to look at it, Agreed
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We should treat it as a special attack with separate AP
Maybe denji could downcale?
Maybe denji could downcale?
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At bare minimum, I think so. Albeit I looked at the chapter, and it didn't even seem like took enough damage to warrant not scaling imo. Granted he did pull his cord, so take that as you will.
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- #72
Based off what Laser said I think Denji should scale to the full blast, And if not his later versions do meaning new keys have to be created
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Tbf, I'm not fully sure of it. I think bare minimum downscaling is fine. At most fully scaling is also okay since he recovered from it so easily.
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- #74
Agreed, I forgot he pulled his cord meaning he couldn't take the entire attack, meaning the downscale is fair
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Denji downscales without question, his bones were broken and his body was drenched in his own blood. Without regeneration those are considered severe injuries.
Bat Devil thought the attack would kill Denji, who was overpowering him. It has no reason to scale to the Bat Devil's durability. It's clearly a special attack of his.
Bat Devil thought the attack would kill Denji, who was overpowering him. It has no reason to scale to the Bat Devil's durability. It's clearly a special attack of his.
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- #78
Would makimas physicals scale to the full blast? Considering that she is simply superior to the Bat Devil in every aspect.
Should Reze, Quanxi and Santa scale off it as well?
Should Reze, Quanxi and Santa scale off it as well?
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