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Chainsaw Man Upgrades

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TheRustyOne said:
Using that knowledge, is it alright to use that for the Bat Devil's distance?

I made my own calculation here, which is where I got these numbers.

I'll use a distance of 7 meters, as the road is 6.5 meters and there is a sidewalk. But the Bat Devil isn't completely across the road.

This me a surface area of 455.3059 m^2 from the Bat Devil to the Building.
Click to expand...
i can have a more in-depth look later, but one thing i see immediately:
why're you using the entire surface area of the cone instead of just the base area?
 
SeijiSetto said:
i can have a more in-depth look later, but one thing i see immediately:
why're you using the entire surface area of the cone instead of just the base area?
Click to expand...
Am I suppose to for that part? How exactly does this find energy in the third dimension than?

If I use the base area nothing changes, the results are exactly the same as the destruction.

194.7205/194.7205*38259896652 = 38259896652 Joules or 9.144 Tons of TNT.

Doesn't matter how faraway he is at that point. Now you've confused me more, last time I did something similar I was told it was alright.
 
Last edited:
Ah, it's being discussed here. Regarding your latest comment, the SA's check out. You just didn't calculate the distance Denji was away from the origin of the soundwave (Bat Devils mouth). Which would decrease Denji's durability for surviving it quite a bit.
SeijiSetto said:
why're you using the entire surface area of the cone instead of just the base area?
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Inverse square law dictates it'd spread out in a 3 Dimensional fashion, no? It'd be like saying to use the cross-sectional area of a sphere, or only the base of a hemispherical explosion (As opposed to the curved area which is spreading outwards). Pretty sure something that spreads out like a shockwave would spread out along the entire cones surface area instead of just the base.

Plus, as stated above, if you used the base area, then distance would be entirely irrelevant, as the energy at the source will always be the same as the energy at the edge of the attack... which is obviously an issue. At least for something like a soundwave anyway.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I'll use a distance of 7 meters, as the road is 6.5 meters and there is a sidewalk. But the Bat Devil isn't completely across the road.
Click to expand...
i wouldn't use 7m
the link says tokyo's expressways are 3.25m in width, and the bat devil isn't fully across the 2nd lane - he's standing right in the middle of it
i would use 1.5x lane width + 1 metre (or so) for the sidewalk.

LaserPrecision said:
It'd be like saying to use the cross-sectional area of a sphere, or only the base of a hemispherical explosion (As opposed to the curved area which is spreading outwards).
Click to expand...
not at all.
for a hemisphere you'd use the curved surface area of the hemisphere.
for a sphere you'd use the area of the sphere.
those parts of the shape are where the wavefront/the-actual-part-of-the-explosion-where-pressure-is-being-applied is.
here, the side of the cone doesn't have any pressure on it. only the "front", i.e the base area.
think of a point source of light vs a focused laser. both could have the same initial brightness but at the same distance from the source, the laser will appear brighter because its light is focused and spreads out over a smaller area (thus meaning higher intensity).

GIGA TL;DR
you know the distance and area that energy was applied over to destroy the building (thus you can find the energy at the epicenter/source)

then (assuming a mathematically-similar cone, same shape proportionally but different dimensions) you can then use inverse-square law again but with denji's surface area and his distance from the bat devil along with the just-calculated energy-at-epicenter to get how much energy he tanked.

i feel like i've slightly overcomplicated the point i wanted to get across so if there's anything that isn't making sense please do tell me so i can try and rephrase myself.
 
SeijiSetto said:
not at all.
for a hemisphere you'd use the curved surface area of the hemisphere.
for a sphere you'd use the area of the sphere.
those parts of the shape are where the wavefront/the-actual-part-of-the-explosion-where-pressure-is-being-applied is.
here, the side of the cone doesn't have any pressure on it. only the "front", i.e the base area.
think of a point source of light vs a focused laser. both could have the same initial brightness but at the same distance from the source, the laser will appear brighter because its light is focused and spreads out over a smaller area (thus meaning higher intensity).

GIGA TL;DR
you know the distance and area that energy was applied over to destroy the building (thus you can find the energy at the epicenter/source)

then (assuming a mathematically-similar cone, same shape proportionally but different dimensions) you can then use inverse-square law again but with denji's surface area and his distance from the bat devil along with the just-calculated energy-at-epicenter to get how much energy he tanked.

i feel like i've slightly overcomplicated the point i wanted to get across so if there's anything that isn't making sense please do tell me so i can try and rephrase myself.
Click to expand...
You didn't overcomplicate it. To be honest, I think your explanation was rather brief and easy to follow. That said, the issue comes in when you try to actually calculate a feat only using the base of the cone as elaborated here:
TheRustyOne said:
If I use the base area nothing changes, the results are exactly the same as the destruction.

194.7205/194.7205*38259896652 = 38259896652 Joules or 9.144 Tons of TNT.

Doesn't matter how faraway he is at that point. Now you've confused me more, last time I did something similar I was told it was alright.
Click to expand...
Given the area destroyed by the attack is equal in area to the base of the cone, the attacks energy at the point of origin will be equal to the energy at the edge of the attack. Which doesn't add up. Is this just an issue of the method Vs Wiki uses for ISL?
 
LaserPrecision said:
Given the area destroyed by the attack is equal in area to the base of the cone, the attacks energy at the point of origin will be equal to the energy at the edge of the attack. Which doesn't add up. Is this just an issue of the method Vs Wiki uses for ISL?
Click to expand...
i've just done like a page worth of scribbling to put my numbers on paper and i finally get what you mean, i think i was just misunderstanding you.

i think it's just how the method for ISL works? it seemingly assumes 0 energy loss and that the energy-at-epicenter is just spread out over a given area.
logically, with those assumptions, something that tanks the energy over the explosion's entire area would be tanking the full yield of the blast-at-epicenter, solely because there's no accounting for energy loss.

the same thing happens for a sphere too. imagine you let off a 1 Kiloton explosion in the center of a spherical room with R = 10m, for example. at 10m away, your explosion has an intensity of 0.7958 Tons/m^2.

your explosion would hit the entire room due to being just as wide, so multiply your intensity by the area of what's tanking it (1256.6m^2 * 0.7958 Tons/m^2) and you get 1000 Tons again.
 
SeijiSetto said:
i've just done like a page worth of scribbling to put my numbers on paper
Click to expand...
Ye of more patience than me.

That said, your conclusion makes sense. It would be all of the energy from the point of origin, just distributed over a far larger area. Said area would need to be smaller than the area of energy distributed to matter.
 
LaserPrecision said:
That said, your conclusion makes sense. It would be all of the energy from the point of origin, just distributed over a far larger area. Said area would need to be smaller than the area of energy distributed to matter.
Click to expand...
precisely
so unless you plan on revising how ISL works wiki-wide it seems like that's what we have to run with
meaning rusty's math is (at first glance) correct.
just divide source explosion (which we now know is simply just the total energy from the damage) by the area of the shockwave at Denji-distance for intensity, and then multiply by Dennis Mansawchain's surface area for what he tanked.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Using that knowledge, is it alright to use that for the Bat Devil's distance?

I made my own calculation here, which is where I got these numbers.

I'll use a distance of 7 meters, as the road is 6.5 meters and there is a sidewalk. But the Bat Devil isn't completely across the road.

This me a surface area of 455.3059 m^2 from the Bat Devil to the Building.

The two radius are the same as the building's above, which is 7.73853 m and 8.00946 m.

The Cross-Sectional Area of the Building: π*7.73853*8.00946 = 194.7204 m^2.

Initial Energy = 38259896652 Joules or 381348643100 Joules

Bat Devil's Attack Potency (V.Frag) = 455.3058/194.7204*38259896652 = 89461365388.8 Joules or 21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level)

Bat Devil's Attack Potency (Pulverization) = 455.3058/194.7204*381348643100 = 891690079856 Joules or 213.11 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level)

Now to get Denji's Durability.

Shockwave Area = π*1.74^2 = 9.511 m^2

Energy Per m^2 (V.Frag) = 89461365388.8/9.511 = 9406094563.01 Joules per m^2

Energy Per m^2 (Pulverization) = 891690079856/9.511 = 93753556918.9 Joules per m^2

Denji's Surface Area = 1.68 m^2

Half of This = 0.84 m^2

Energy (V.Frag) = 9406094563.01*0.84 = 7901119432.93 Joules or 1.88 Tons of TNT (Building level+)

Energy (Pulverization) = 93753556918.9*0.84 = 78752987811.9 Joules or 18.82 Tons of TNT (City Block level)

How does this look?
Click to expand...
Assuming this is the final decision?
 
LaserPrecision said:
The distance Denji from the source of the soundwave wasn't yet accounted for. Only his surface area. His surface area and distance from the source should be calculated to get more realistic results in regards to his durability.
Click to expand...
Regarding this I believe denji should have different keys, As denji further on in the manga is leagues above the bat devils total attack potency.
 
I have no idea what you people want me to do. I do something and get told it's wrong. I change it, and I still get told it's wrong.

What am I suppose to do here?
GunshyFever said:
Regarding this I believe denji should have different keys, As denji further on in the manga is leagues above the bat devils total attack potency.
Click to expand...
That needs to be saved for another thread.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I have no idea what you people want me to do. I do something and get told it's wrong. I change it, and I still get told it's wrong.

What am I suppose to do here?
Click to expand...
Sorry 😭

I was basically just suggesting what the inverse square law page says in regard to Inverse Square Law. Since Denji is a couple meters away from the point of origin, the intensity at that distance should be measured, and then Denji's surface area should also be accounted for.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Inverse_Square_Law

The only difference is instead of a spherical area, you solve for the area of the base of a cone at the distance Denji is from it.
 
LaserPrecision said:
I was basically just suggesting what the inverse square law page says in regard to Inverse Square Law. Since Denji is a couple meters away from the point of origin, the intensity at that distance should be measured, and then Denji's surface area should also be accounted for.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Inverse_Square_Law

The only difference is instead of a spherical area, you solve for the area of the base of a cone at the distance Denji is from it.
Click to expand...
I am using the base area of a cone at the distance Denji is from when it hits him.

Am I missing something here?
 
TheRustyOne said:
I have no idea what you people want me to do. I do something and get told it's wrong. I change it, and I still get told it's wrong.

What am I suppose to do here?
Click to expand...
3QQqEZY.gif
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
The new calc was accepted

So what do we do about Denji's tier?

Since he by no means scales one-to-one to the blast
Click to expand...
Honestly I suggest we create new keys, Denji later on in the manga definitely scales far above the bat devils total AP. That including part 2 Denji and all hybrids as well as Makimas physical stats should scale to this as well.

Im suggesting

Key: Base | Katana Man Arc | Control Devil Arc | Part 2

I also suggest we remove Pochita and create his own page as they are completely different entities.
 
Would the bat dura scale to his own wind blast considering he compressed all that air inside his lungs?
 
Epiccheev said:
Would the bat dura scale to his own wind blast considering he compressed all that air inside his lungs?
Click to expand...
Yeah pretty much, Denji could easily shred and tear through the bat devil, punching him around while blitzing him like nothing. Denji should easily scale to the full blast.
 
Weapon Hybrids in general are glass cannons. Denji can saw through pretty much anything cleanly, including himself (like his own head.)
I'd say he should scale in AP to Bat Devil's dura, but downscale from the portion of wind blast he took.
 
GunshyFever said:
Based off what Laser said I think Denji should scale to the full blast, And if not his later versions do meaning new keys have to be created
Click to expand...
Tbf, I'm not fully sure of it. I think bare minimum downscaling is fine. At most fully scaling is also okay since he recovered from it so easily.
 
Epiccheev said:
Weapon Hybrids in general are glass cannons. Denji can saw through pretty much anything cleanly, including himself (like his own head.)
I'd say he should scale in AP to Bat Devil's dura, but downscale from the portion of wind blast he took.
Click to expand...

Nah, durability in general is just inconsistent as **** in CSM
 
Would makimas physicals scale to the full blast? Considering that she is simply superior to the Bat Devil in every aspect.

Should Reze, Quanxi and Santa scale off it as well?
 
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