- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #81
Too realMan devil should scale from bat devil
Honestly yeah, csm durability is a mess so it's best if we just scale the attack off devils who have more people fear themFear scaling would fix all of this btw
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Chainsaw Man Upgrades
- Thread starter GunshyFever
- Start date
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- 11,316
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New scaling should be saved for another thread.
This one was made to change the calculation that is currently being used.
Note: We also need to discuss how exactly Denji downscales from this.
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #83
The Bat Devil's Attack should equate to his durability via the context of the attack.
Denji was able to easily rip and tear through the Bat Devil. That would make the downscale contradictory unless we only downscale his durability and upscale his AP.
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There's no reason for this to scale to his durability. Nothing suggest that it should. Especially when the Bat Devil believed it could kill someone stronger than him.
Denji's AP is higher due to piercing/slashing with his chainsaws and his chainsaws were undamaged by the attack. So his body and chainsaw durability appear to be different. However, that stuff should be saved for another thread. Right now I'll just focus on the profiles as they are currently.
- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #85
So your saying his body and weapons would scale separately? That's fair
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We need more calc group members to give their opinion on my calculation versus the current one.
Honestly, this should've been made in the calc group discussion thread per our editing rules. "If there exist several calculations for a specific feat that have all been evaluated and accepted, but give conflicting results, the matter of which one that is most reliable should be first be discussed in the calc group forum by our calc group members before any changes are applied to the relevant character profiles."
Should focus on this first before anything else.
Honestly, this should've been made in the calc group discussion thread per our editing rules. "If there exist several calculations for a specific feat that have all been evaluated and accepted, but give conflicting results, the matter of which one that is most reliable should be first be discussed in the calc group forum by our calc group members before any changes are applied to the relevant character profiles."
Should focus on this first before anything else.
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #87
Agreed
- 4,716
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If I punch and break every bone in your body I don't think it's fair to say that you should somewhat scale to that attack
Zabazab
Any/All- 3,887
- 5,041
Nothing aside from his left arm looked broken, did I miss a page?
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It didn't break every bone in his body, but it's still really bad damage.
However, since the attack that broke Denji's bones was spread across his body's frontal surface area. While a punch is localized to a far smaller area.
That same level of power put into a human sized fist will inflict far more damage than what the Bat Devil's attack did.
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I'm not saying he did, I'm referencing him pulling the cord which basically means he's been one-shot
IE my example above
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #93
Looking at this again, wouldn't that still be the Bat Devils AP? Its an attack that came from his lungs which is another reason to believe why the attack should scale to his durability.
This is why Denjis AP should scale to this and his durability should be downscaled.
If the statement I said above is invalid then we can just say later versions of Denji scale to the full Potency of the attack. (Such as part 2 Denji and etc...)
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That's not how that works here. You'd need to provide proof it did in universe.
Fiction can do whatever it wants and an attack like this, if it worked logically, would rupture his organs. This would create circular scaling if we scaled it fully to his durability. The Bat Devil believed this attack would kill Denji, who was overpowering him. This means Bat Devil's physical AP/Dura are far lesser than this attack.
If he fully scaled to this attack the logic here falls apart. Especially when that attack inflicted serious damage on Denji. Heavily broken arm and heavy bleeding everywhere.
Future scaling is irrelevant here since that's not how Denji's profile is currently formatted, and that can be saved for another thread.
- 2,341
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the problem is that denji was tearing through the bat devil (i.e denji AP ~ bat devil dura) but the bat devil believed his sound attack would kill denji, meaning it's ABOVE his regular physicals.
ninja'd
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #97
But that's contradictory considering that fact that fiction shouldn't appeal to reality, meaning that in the long run his durability should just scale to his AP considering the attack came from his lungs. Otherwise the scaling would make no sense via the fact that fiction doesn't apply to the universe.
Same thing would apply if we don't via the fact that it is contradicted heavily despite the route you take
What's stopping his punches from being just as potent as his AP? from what I've seen weve never seen him land a direct punch on Denji. So we can just take from the fact he needed an AOE attack to harm Denji since he was being blitzed by him.
Sure, but that is durability wise I still believe his AP should scale to the entire blow regarding what I said in my first point.
Hybrid form/Chainsaw Man is still Part 2 Denji, which is only another reason why Denji would scale to the full Potency as his Part 2 counter part is massively stronger than his beginnings.
We can also speculate that the bat devil placed his attack in an AOE format since he couldn't keep up with Denji, an attack which would cause more harm than a regular punch considering that fact that it covered a much larger distance, as well as something Denji couldn't dodge considering that fact that pressure is forcing him backwards and his movement would be limited.
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While we're already pass that point, thinking about it now the OP's calculation would be a massive outlier. That's comparable to the Gun Devil's feat, who is so massively superior to the Bat Devil that they shouldn't even be anywhere close to each other. Honestly, even 8-B+ seems a bit too close for my liking.
Stronger characters than the Bat Devil lacks any feats on this level. Reze should be far superior to the Bat Devil, yet her feats are massively weaker.
I have a lot of issues with the current Chainsaw Man profiles that I've been planning to tackle for some time. I'm still currently gathering feats and making calculations. But I plan to make my CRTs for this verse at some point to tackle these issues. So I can't really say where they'll end up, just that right now it's kind of a mess.
Stronger characters than the Bat Devil lacks any feats on this level. Reze should be far superior to the Bat Devil, yet her feats are massively weaker.
I have a lot of issues with the current Chainsaw Man profiles that I've been planning to tackle for some time. I'm still currently gathering feats and making calculations. But I plan to make my CRTs for this verse at some point to tackle these issues. So I can't really say where they'll end up, just that right now it's kind of a mess.
- 5,819
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To be fair, I think Gun Devil's calc needs to be upgraded by accounting for ISL as well. Him just being in that general vicinity created a pressure strong enough to leave a huge ass crater.
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #100
The Gun devil was just floating and shooting, focusing on causing havoc and killing people left and right. The area he stood in became a crater because of his body mass as well as the force of the bullets as he fires rapidly at a long distance range. If the Gun devil where to focus on creating creators with no doubt there would have been a higher result. (Remember this is 20% of the Gun Devil)
Fear scaling wise she would easily scale above him even if her feats are massively weaker
Agreed the entire Chainsaw Man verse on VSBW is a complete mess, It needs a complete renovation. If im going to be honest Its going to be difficult doing anything without more calcs as foundation.
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #101
Looking back at this, I don't think denji can scale from this calc at all.
He had to pull his cord meaning he was one shot, and there is no loop hole around that.
He had to pull his cord meaning he was one shot, and there is no loop hole around that.
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Pulling his cord doesn't mean he was one-shot though? It just mean he took enough damage that he needed to regenerate. If he was one-shot, he wouldn't have even been conscious to pull his cord. If his arms were shot off, he couldn't pull his cord either (Like how he couldn't pull his cord after Reze blew them off intentionally). We don't really get to see the full extent of the damage. But it wasn't bad enough to blow his arms off, that much can be said.
- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #103
How would we scale him from this though? as in context he wasn't able to take the attack without his regenerative abilities
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I thought the downscaling proposition was fine.
- 1,548
- 1,005
- Thread starter
- #105
Agreed
- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #106
I'm bumping this
- 1,411
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why is pulverization even used?
Nothing indicates the area was literally pulverized to dust, the structural integrity of the buildings in question should also be taken into consideration as cracks will easily propagate when the damage is dealt to the structure which also requires far less energy
The calc doesn't take into account the actual structure of the building. Instead of treating it as a relatively hollow structure composed reinforced concrete bound together with mortar he calc simply adds up the total volume of the material and treats it as a single, solid mass that was all somehow pulverized or turned to little pieces
It should take into account that simply breaking parts of the building will compromise its structural integrity and make it collapse on itself, as well...well, all the above
If I'm being honest I was questioning my sanity just seeing destroying some buildings required 400 tons of tnt
also looking at the panel provided the area it assumed was destroyed wasn't as we can very visibly see trough the yellow ball, the area in front of it is largely unharmed, rather the damage was in the form of a circle with everything else being untouched exept for some shattered glass
the calc should be scrapped
Nothing indicates the area was literally pulverized to dust, the structural integrity of the buildings in question should also be taken into consideration as cracks will easily propagate when the damage is dealt to the structure which also requires far less energy
The calc doesn't take into account the actual structure of the building. Instead of treating it as a relatively hollow structure composed reinforced concrete bound together with mortar he calc simply adds up the total volume of the material and treats it as a single, solid mass that was all somehow pulverized or turned to little pieces
It should take into account that simply breaking parts of the building will compromise its structural integrity and make it collapse on itself, as well...well, all the above
If I'm being honest I was questioning my sanity just seeing destroying some buildings required 400 tons of tnt
also looking at the panel provided the area it assumed was destroyed wasn't as we can very visibly see trough the yellow ball, the area in front of it is largely unharmed, rather the damage was in the form of a circle with everything else being untouched exept for some shattered glass
the calc should be scrapped
- 2,341
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(i already rejected it after having a 2nd look)
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- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #110
Should I replace it with the new calc we are currently working with? (On the Crt)
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Bump
Zabazab
Any/All- 3,887
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I'd suggest that yes, since Rusty's calc is accepted while Phantom's has been rejected.
- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #113
Done
Zabazab
Any/All- 3,887
- 5,041
The OP should also reflect the new value- probably High 8-C+, since Part 2 has no keys at the moment.
- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #115
The total attack of the Bat Devil generated: 213.11 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level)
Denji took 21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level) of the attack
We know that Denji had to pull his cord because he was damaged and needed to regenerate
Meaning that Denji took alot of Damage from the portion of the attack he took "21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level)"
We also know that Denji lost alot of blood prior to his transformation, due to Power trading his blood to the Bat Devil
Likely the state we see Denji in after he pulls his cord, is the result of the impact the Bat Devils attack had on him, which means he was able to take on the 21.38 Tons of TNT to a decent amount
At most 21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level)
Are we allowed to discuss how the characters in the OP scale from this?
Denji took 21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level) of the attack
We know that Denji had to pull his cord because he was damaged and needed to regenerate
Meaning that Denji took alot of Damage from the portion of the attack he took "21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level)"
We also know that Denji lost alot of blood prior to his transformation, due to Power trading his blood to the Bat Devil
Likely the state we see Denji in after he pulls his cord, is the result of the impact the Bat Devils attack had on him, which means he was able to take on the 21.38 Tons of TNT to a decent amount
At most 21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level)
Are we allowed to discuss how the characters in the OP scale from this?
A new value was given that we are currently using
^
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- 1,548
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- Thread starter
- #117
The OP has been updated, I will be counting votes now and please tell me your thoughts on it
Zabazab
Any/All- 3,887
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There are plenty of characters that deal way more damage to (eg. one-shot) Chainsaw Denji than Bat's attack did, so yeah those listed should scale.
As for the characters that fully scale to Bat's complete sonic AP, there isn't actually anything that can be used to directly scale a single character to it, so Fear Scaling would need to be used.
As for the characters that fully scale to Bat's complete sonic AP, there isn't actually anything that can be used to directly scale a single character to it, so Fear Scaling would need to be used.
- 1,548
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- #119
Agreed, so this would apply to makima in terms of fear scaling and most likely santa for reasons I listed in the OP
Zabazab
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Santa at night maybe, but daytime Devil Santa punched Denji through 13 stories and all he had to say was "Owie".
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