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Chainsaw Man Upgrades

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GunshyFever

GunshyFever

850
538
Based off this calc: All hybrid profiles should be upgraded to Large Building level+ (8.04 Tons of TNT) AP.
The total attack of the Bat Devil generated:
91.144 Tons of TNT (City Block level+)
Denji took 8.04 Tons of TNT (Large Bulding level+) of the attack

We know that Denji had to pull his cord because he was damaged and needed to regenerate

Meaning that Denji took alot of Damage from the portion of the attack he took "8.04 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+)"

We also know that Denji lost alot of blood prior to his transformation, due to Power trading his blood to the Bat Devil

Likely the state we see Denji in after he pulls his cord, is the result of the impact the Bat Devils attack had on him, which means he was able to take on the 8.04 Tons of TNT to a decent amount

At most 8.04 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+ ) for each hybrid

Characters who should scale to it:
Aki/Gun fiend: (Who with weapons can harm Reze/Can harm Denji)
Reze (Who can harm Hyrbid Form Denji)
Quanxi (Can easily harm Santa Clause whom her and her dolls can harm hybrid Denji)
Katana Man: (Can cut Denji in half and harm him in combat)

Characters who scale to the full AP: 91.144 Tons of TNT (City Block level+)

Note: Fear Scaling (As a devil embodying the fear of a concept, the more feared they are, the more powerful they become even a relatively minor boost in fear can immensely boost a devil's overall strength and effects of their abilities, Due to this once a Devil is more feared than the Bat Devil, their AP surpasses his)

Makima (Physically): Makima fought and defeated a clone of Pochita (Being the clone of Pochita who is the Devil that all devils fear the most albeit he had lost a large amount of fear from humanity prior to this fight), this clone has shown himself to be superior to all the other Hybrids being able to one shot them showing that his AP is massively higher than that of 8.01 Tons of TNT, granted this shows him to be far stronger than the total AP of the Bat Devils attack. Makimas strength upscales from this as she was able to deal heavy damage onto this clone of Pochita, punching away his arms and ripping out his vital organs, which should equate to 91.114 Tons of TNT, Makimas striking strength = her durability albeit it as shown to be the most inconsistent durability in the series, but it should suffice as she is able to take on the force of her own strikes, Makima is also very feared to the extent that countries all around the world had a fear for Makima and refused to stand in her way of bringing peace, she also represents the fear of control (fear of loosing free will) which is more feared than Bats.

Santa Claus (Night state): She formed a contract with the Darkness Devil (A Primordial Devil in hell whom have never died once embody fears that almost everyone on the planet has) consuming a piece of his flesh giving her a huge strength AMP making her able to harm Denji but her durability was still below Quanxi and Denjis AP as she was easily harmed by both of their attacks which is at least 8.01 Tons of TNT. During night state she is even stronger in the darkness, even being much stronger and faster than before, and she should be far superior to the likes of the Bat Devils complete Attack Potency 91.144 Tons of TNT, Denji was only able to harm her due to lighting himself on fire bypassing her invulnerability at night which should be apart of her AP.

Power (Blood Devil): This version of Power should be relative to the Clone of Pochita, as they have the same Power Source, her attacks were able to tear Makima apart and the fear of Blood related sceneries and gore are higher than that of the fear of Bats. This should all account to 91.144 Tons of TNT

Quanxi (Hybrid Form): She was able to block an attack from clone Pochita and harm him with her arrows. Eventually both of them end up killing each other showing Hybrid Quanxi has relativity to clone Pochita which should account to 91.144 Tons of TNT

Agree: @Zabazab, @Epiccheev, @TheRustyOne [calc group member], @KingTempest {Thread Mod}, @CiscoTheSoto, @LordGinSama, @LordGriffin1000 (Administrator)

Disagree:
 
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I've mentioned in the discussion thread that i have issue's with the Bat devil feat as a whole so this is probably a good place to bring them up

For one Denji's durability wouldn't fully scale to this as he is actually damaged enough to need to pull his cord to regen. There's also the issue of him not tanking the full area of the blast, while the overall attack might be 8-A Denji only took a small portion of the attacks overall surface area. Kind of like how taking an explosion from dozens of meters away weilds far lower results thann explosion itself because by that point the surface area of the blast is far larger than that of the person tanking it
 
Giannysmag said:
I've mentioned in the discussion thread that i have issue's with the Bat devil feat as a whole so this is probably a good place to bring them up

For one Denji's durability wouldn't fully scale to this as he is actually damaged enough to need to pull his cord to regen. There's also the issue of him not tanking the full area of the blast, while the overall attack might be 8-A Denji only took a small portion of the attacks overall surface area. Kind of like how taking an explosion from dozens of meters away weilds far lower results thann explosion itself because by that point the surface area of the blast is far larger than that of the person tanking it
Click to expand...
Denjis AP should still scale to this as the Bat Devils AP should equate to his durability based on how the attack was disputed. As well as the fact Denji was swiftly and easily able to deal with the bat devil with little or relative ease.
 
GunshyFever said:
Denjis AP should still scale to this as the Bat Devils AP should equate to his durability based on how the attack was disputed. As well as the fact Denji was swiftly and easily able to deal with the bat devil with little or relative ease.
Click to expand...
I don't think it would scale to the Bat Devil physically as Bat is surprised Denji could even survive the attack, implying it's well above his normal attacks
 
I aint some calc god but like Denji definitely received more energy from the sound blast than the building. Denji took the sound blast pretty much at point blank range, while the rest of sound that went further after hitting Denji pulverized the building behind him
 
Emerald said:
I aint some calc god but like Denji definitely received more energy from the sound blast than the building. Denji took the sound blast pretty much at point blank range, while the rest of sound that went further after hitting Denji pulverized the building behind him
Click to expand...
If there ain't a stated decibel count we can't really use it lol
 
Okay so, despiste Denji surviving it, I dont believe that he should fully scale to the value since he needed to pull his cord to really survive, however, he was still alive enough to well, pull his cord. So despiste he being inferior to the blast itself, I think he should get a "At most 8-A" instead of a concrete rating. Characters that scale massively above him should get the fully rating tho

But I do like to see some CGM here. Last time that I tried to scale Sukuna to Jogo's meteor poeple said to me to compare the area of the meteor with Sukuna's body to know how much he would really took instead of using all of the yield
 
I also have issues with the scaling. The attack broke bones from Denij leaving him heavily injured. Had he not possessed regeneration I don't see how anyone would think he fully scales to it. He should be downscaling from that value at the most.

However, using the Inverse Square Law to find the power of the shockwave and how much energy hits Denji would be better.

As explain, the Bat Devil was also shocked to see Denji survive the attack despite the fact he was crushing the Bat Devil easily. So I highly doubt this scales to the Bat Devil physically. If he was this strong with his normal durability and punches, why would he think this attack would kill someone who was overpowering him?

Small Calculation.

Denji Transformed Height = 1.8 m (509 px)

Shockwave Diameter = 3.49 m (987 px)

Shockwave Radius = 1.74 m

Shockwave Height = 1.83 m (519 px)

Shockwave Surface Area (Cone) = 23.3150 m^2

Energy = 2.6027848e+12 Joules

Energy Per m^2 = 2.6027848e+12/23.3150 = 111635633712 Joules per m^2

Average Human Cross Section Area = 0.68 m^2

Denji Energy = 111635633712*0.68 = 75912230924.3 Joules or 18.14 Tons of TNT (City Block level)

Assuming other calc group members agree that we should do this.
 
TheRustyOne said:
I also have issues with the scaling. The attack broke bones from Denij leaving him heavily injured. Had he not possessed regeneration I don't see how anyone would think he fully scales to it. He should be downscaling from that value at the most.

However, using the Inverse Square Law to find the power of the shockwave and how much energy hits Denji would be better.

As explain, the Bat Devil was also shocked to see Denji survive the attack despite the fact he was crushing the Bat Devil easily. So I highly doubt this scales to the Bat Devil physically. If he was this strong with his normal durability and punches, why would he think this attack would kill someone who was overpowering him?

Small Calculation.

Denji Transformed Height = 1.8 m (509 px)

Shockwave Diameter = 3.49 m (987 px)

Shockwave Radius = 1.74 m

Shockwave Height = 1.83 m (519 px)

Shockwave Surface Area (Cone) = 23.3150 m^2

Energy = 2.6027848e+12 Joules

Energy Per m^2 = 2.6027848e+12/23.3150 = 111635633712 Joules per m^2

Average Human Cross Section Area = 0.68 m^2

Denji Energy = 111635633712*0.68 = 75912230924.3 Joules or 18.14 Tons of TNT (City Block level)

Assuming other calc group members agree that we should do this.
Click to expand...
the area you got is for the total surface area of a cone with those dimensions, i'm pretty sure here the only part relevant would be the surface area of the base (i.e the wavefront that is actually hitting Denji)

another thing of note is that, since you're modelling with inverse-square law, the intensity of the wave at Denji-distance would be far stronger than at building-distance and it tore through the building, so.

you could probably just work backwards to get the intensity at the epicenter, and then use that to get Denji's durability from him tanking a large portion of it at point-blank range.
 
The entire surface area would be needed since I need to know how much energy is spread across per m^2. I wanted to use to inverse square law to find the strength of the shockwave so I could get a more accurate result. However, I lack the size of the Bat Devil which I need in order to find the size of the shockwave when it hits the building.

Since we obviously have the diameter/radius, but I don't know how far the Bat Devil is from the building. That's why I didn't make it into a blog, more of an example.

Assuming that I can't find it, using just the circle area would be a good as you already explain.

Shockwave Area = π*1.74^2 = 9.51 m^2

Energy Per m^2 = 2.6027848e+12/9.51 = 273689253417 Joules

Denji Durability = 273689253417*0.68 = 186108692324 Joules or 44 Tons of TNT (City Block level)
 
TheRustyOne said:
The entire surface area would be needed since I need to know how much energy is spread across per m^2.
Click to expand...
yeah but
zfPtecq.png
the area you initially got was what's drawn in B, despite the fact that the soundwave (i.e a travelling wave of air pressure) would only actually be the base of the cone, i.e A.
when you make a noise (ignoring echos and reverb), you hear it once while the wave - the base of this cone - passes your ears and that's the end of it.

TheRustyOne said:
However, I lack the size of the Bat Devil which I need in order to find the size of the shockwave when it hits the building.
Click to expand...
definitely do-able. pretty sure there's a couple shots of it holding a car and whatnot so it's possible to get its height, then angsize (and subtract) to get the distance it was away from the building, use that to get intensity at epicenter, yada yada.

i could do it if you aren't already planning on it.
 
SeijiSetto said:
Snip
Click to expand...
I feel like we just misunderstood each other here and it's irrelevant to any main point here. I did realized my own reply was very vague on what I was trying to say.

If you can do the calculation that'd be great and I don't mind evaluating it.
 
TheRustyOne said:
The entire surface area would be needed since I need to know how much energy is spread across per m^2. I wanted to use to inverse square law to find the strength of the shockwave so I could get a more accurate result. However, I lack the size of the Bat Devil which I need in order to find the size of the shockwave when it hits the building.

Since we obviously have the diameter/radius, but I don't know how far the Bat Devil is from the building. That's why I didn't make it into a blog, more of an example.

Assuming that I can't find it, using just the circle area would be a good as you already explain.

Shockwave Area = π*1.74^2 = 9.51 m^2

Energy Per m^2 = 2.6027848e+12/9.51 = 273689253417 Joules

Denji Durability = 273689253417*0.68 = 186108692324 Joules or 44 Tons of TNT (City Block level)
Click to expand...
Seeing this I am assuming you are calcing the bit of the attack that Denji endured through.

I see this as fine for denji but later on in the manga his durability should be stronger, as well as hybrids listed in this thread should be above that bat devils full AP considering the fact that progressively denji faces stronger opponents.
Such as; typhoon devil, Santa clause etc... the gun fiend also should have some calc worthy feats, I suggest taking a look as it could upscale denji and hybrids as a whole. (He destroys a couple buildings in a town like complex)

Notable feats such as the spear hybrid harming the chainsaw devil, via AP reduction. (The chainsaw devil was seemingly off gaurd upon being impaled in the shoulder by the spear hybrid)

Regarding my stance based on these feats denji should well easily scale higher than the Bat devils total AP from that attack.

Thoughts?
 
i'm looking back at the calc now with a fresher pair of eyes and the numbers are very off - likely due to the panel's curvature.

the building is assumed to be 60m deep because of angsizing shenanigans.
you can see 5, maybe 6 inner walls before you reach the "light" that's probably supposed to be the other end of the building.

for example, angsizing shenanigans (part 2) would end up getting the door as being 24.8m away from the PoV, despite the fact that it's literally just across the road. japan has road widths of around 6.5m for 2 lanes (+ 2-ish metres for the sidewalk) and you start to see what i'm talking about.

i accepted it earlier but a second look says "nah".
 
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SeijiSetto said:
i'm looking back at the calc now with a fresher pair of eyes and the numbers are very off - likely due to the panel's curvature.

the building is assumed to be 60m deep because of angsizing shenanigans.
you can see 5, maybe 6 inner walls before you reach the "light" that's probably supposed to be the other end of the building.

for example, angsizing shenanigans (part 2) would end up getting the door as being 24.8m away from the PoV, despite the fact that it's literally just across the road. japan has road widths of around 6.5m for 2 lanes (+ 2-ish metres for the sidewalk) and you start to see what i'm talking about.

i accepted it earlier but a second look says "nah".
Click to expand...
Hm, are we going to fix/change
this one via the calcs done above? Or will we continue to use the current bat devil calc and close this thread?
 
TheRustyOne said:
The old calculation does needs to be changed to use Reinforced Concrete values and take into account the surface area difference if we're going to keep using it.

However, I did make my own calculation with this feat.
Click to expand...
Instead of assuming that the depth of the impact is equal to the radius of the blast, you could instead find the width if the entire building using the door you already scaled and use that as the depth of the blast

Also why are you using an ellipsoid when it's a cylinder shaped hole?
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
Instead of assuming that the depth of the impact is equal to the radius of the blast, you could instead find the width if the entire building using the door you already scaled and use that as the depth of the blast

Also why are you using an ellipsoid when it's a cylinder shaped hole?
Click to expand...
I'm doing the same thing the original calculation did, except a ellipsoid instead of a sphere.

I've changed the calculation to be an elliptical cylinder and I'm using the Building Width for Depth.
 
Bat Devil's Sonic Attack: 9.144 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+) or 91.144 Tons of TNT (City Block level+)

Denji's Durability: 0.653 Tons of TNT (Building level) or 6.51 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+)

Already updated the calculation. Results vary depend on V.Frag or Pulverization being used.

I used both since V.Frag was the original and this new one used Pulverization. I'll let the calc group member who evaluate it decides on which is better.
 
.. -. - . .-. . ... - .. -. --. --..-- / -- .- -.-- -... . / -.-- --- ..- / -.-. --- ..- .-.. -.. / --. --- / ..-. ..- .-. - .... . .-. ..--..
 
TheRustyOne said:
Bat Devil's Sonic Attack: 9.144 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+) or 91.144 Tons of TNT (City Block level+)

Denji's Durability: 0.653 Tons of TNT (Building level) or 6.51 Tons of TNT (Large Building level+)

Already updated the calculation. Results depend on V.Frag or Pulverization being used.

I used both since V.Frag was the original and this new one used Pulverization. I'll let the calc group member who evaluate it decides on which is better.
Click to expand...
One more thing

To wank this to the max I recommend finding his BSA using this calculator and your found height

I got a slightly higher value than the average we assume
 
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson said:
One more thing

To wank this to the max I recommend finding his BSA using this calculator and your found height

I got a slightly higher value than the average we assume
Click to expand...
We normally don't do that for normal human size characters.

"CA is approximately 0.68 m^2 for a grown human. It can also be estimated as half of the bodies surface area calculated using this, but that is a slight overestimation."

We need to update our page, since that link is dead.

Edit: Denji's CA is going to be inaccurate anyway, since he's got a chainsaws on his head and his limbs.
 
TheRustyOne said:
We normally don't do that for normal human size characters.

"CA is approximately 0.68 m^2 for a grown human. It can also be estimated as half of the bodies surface area calculated using this, but that is a slight overestimation."

We need to update our page, since that link is dead.
Click to expand...
For what reason?
The first link you sent does not provide a source for what they base their "Average humans" size to be
The truth is that this found average is not the same for everyone regardless of size and should be factored in when making a calc like this
The second link doesn't work but you yourself admit that body surface area can be used to find CA so why not use it in this case?
Denji is 1.8 meters tall in his chainsaw form like you claim and that is far from an "Average" sized human so IMO the second method you listed should be used to determine his CA

At worst you could put it as a possible end, I don't care as long as the issue is addressed
 
SeijiSetto said:
for example, angsizing shenanigans (part 2) would end up getting the door as being 24.8m away from the PoV, despite the fact that it's literally just across the road. japan has road widths of around 6.5m for 2 lanes (+ 2-ish metres for the sidewalk) and you start to see what i'm talking about.
Click to expand...
Using that knowledge, is it alright to use that for the Bat Devil's distance?

I made my own calculation here, which is where I got these numbers.

I'll use a distance of 7 meters, as the road is 6.5 meters and there is a sidewalk. But the Bat Devil isn't completely across the road.

This me a surface area of 455.3059 m^2 from the Bat Devil to the Building.

The two radius are the same as the building's above, which is 7.73853 m and 8.00946 m.

The Cross-Sectional Area of the Building: π*7.73853*8.00946 = 194.7204 m^2.

Initial Energy = 38259896652 Joules or 381348643100 Joules

Bat Devil's Attack Potency (V.Frag) = 455.3058/194.7204*38259896652 = 89461365388.8 Joules or 21.38 Tons of TNT (City Block level)

Bat Devil's Attack Potency (Pulverization) = 455.3058/194.7204*381348643100 = 891690079856 Joules or 213.11 Tons of TNT (Multi-City Block level)

Now to get Denji's Durability.

Shockwave Area = π*1.74^2 = 9.511 m^2

Energy Per m^2 (V.Frag) = 89461365388.8/9.511 = 9406094563.01 Joules per m^2

Energy Per m^2 (Pulverization) = 891690079856/9.511 = 93753556918.9 Joules per m^2

Denji's Surface Area = 1.68 m^2

Half of This = 0.84 m^2

Energy (V.Frag) = 9406094563.01*0.84 = 7901119432.93 Joules or 1.88 Tons of TNT (Building level+)

Energy (Pulverization) = 93753556918.9*0.84 = 78752987811.9 Joules or 18.82 Tons of TNT (City Block level)

How does this look?
 
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