- 3,976
- 4,446
Now I know what people are thinking…………
You're being a huge wanker and you shouldn't be taken seriously if you think anyone in Naruto is even Planet level let alone Multiversal and beyond!
But here's the thing,
I'm nearly 100% confident in the evidence I have to show you
Since I will be using Statements backed up by Scaling, Feats, and WORD OF AUTHOR HIMSELF!
To people who might feel differently
I'll be happy to debate with you
To people who will do nothing but leave memes and troll
All you're doing in my eyes is conceding to me being right and not wanting to admit it out loud
You will be ignored
I want actual debaters who will be willing to have friendly discussions
Not trolls……….
Also....... use the links I put, they're my evidence
On that final note,
Here…...we……go…………
The size of Kaguya's Dimensions has always been a controversial topic
But I will end it here
They are Universes
And to those who guys who say she didn't create them or even she created them over a long unknown period of time……...
You're both wrong
It was confirmed in the Databooks that not only did she create them
But she created them at will/instantaneously at that
https://imgur.com/a/Te1JwxF
It was confirmed by Kishimoto that she could destroy these Dimensions just as easily AND that Kaguya is Multiversal in the databooks and manga.
https://imgur.com/a/RuJxzfe
Expansive Truthseeker Orb ('Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë', Bōchō Gudōdama)
It is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, Ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb Chakra from all of the Shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the Universe and return it to nothing. Ôåæ Caption: Comprised of all Chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the Universe, it was a huge mass of chaos.
And I know what people are going to say...... The red highlighted part in the Picture says Sekai which can mean WORLD TOO! Therefore, Kaguya is only Planet Level WANKER!
But here's the thing, even if we lowball Kaguya's Dimensions they're at least Solar System in Size due to having Stars in each of them, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM as you clearly see!
https://imgur.com/a/JrM7UHV
But here's the thing, Solar System in Japanese is Taiyōkei
NOT SEKAI!
So if MULTIPLE DIMENSIONS have STARS IN THEM, and it says SEKAI IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE UNIVERSE! Because SAYING WORLD WOULD MAKE NO SENSE DUE TO THEM HAVING STARS!
Sekai means either.... Society, World, or Universe
Society- I think WE ALL don't need to explain why this doesn't work whatsoever
World- You admit to seeing the Stars, But STARS DON'T EXIST ON PLANETS! THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
You can't even use the word Hoshi or Wakusei
Hoshi means either Star or Planet and Wakusei means Planet
Yes there are Stars in Kaguya's Dimension but the Databook uses SEKAI! NOT HOSHI OR WAKUSEI!
And you can't use Uchu. I know it means Universe as well but if you say Sekai doesn't count and it should use Uchu then you've CLEARLY forgotten WHAT A SYNONYM IS!
So if Sekai is the word.....
Saying Society and Planet doesn't make any sense
Then that CAN ONLY MEAN IT'S A UNIVERSE!
And once again to those who are saying where are the Nebulae, Black Holes, and such,
Just because we didn't see the FULL Dimension doesn't mean it's not a Universe.
Plus, them being Universes is consistent with the Juubi having CREATED THE UNIVERSE, which was confirmed in the databooks. And even a FRACTION OF a NERFED Kaguya's Chakra utterly dwarfing the Juubi.
https://imgur.com/a/Jclp5YO
https://imgur.com/a/CjcstyP
And before you start saying how Universe is mistranslation for World or it meant that the Original Juubi was Universal and not the fragment that Kaguya devoured I will debunk those notions here and now.
Here's the Original Translation:
https://imgur.com/a/Y2IHhPv
It says "Tenchi" [Õñ®Õ£░] which means "Heaven and Earth", commonly used to refer to the universe. LOOK IT UP EVEN!
Exact translation would be: A piece of the God Tree created Heaven, Earth, and Life - Ten-Tails
So not only does it prove that Universe ISN'T a mistranslation for world, it also that only just ONE FRAGEMNET ALONE created the Main Naruto Universe.
Which also implies there's a sort of greater god tree that acts as a God of War Yggdrasil for the Naruto verse or like the Root in Fate that is FAR STRONGER!
Now I know what people are going to start saying……
Even if we believe this
She's still an Outlier for the verse and no scales to her still
Me: ………. BWAHAHAHAHA!
There are PLENTY of characters that are not only stronger than Kaguya, but have similar feats.
It's also consistent with Momoshiki's Dimension PROVING it's an INFINITELY EXPANDING UNIVERSE!
Why?
It's called a Parallel Dimension and parallel has connotations for meaning equal in size
https://imgur.com/a/H8Lr5Xc
Also........
A Red Shift Nebula is a sign of an ever expanding Universe its part of the Big Bang Theory.
Momoshiki's Dimension has Red Shift Nebula
Therefore, it's an Infinitely Expanding Universe
https://imgur.com/a/weJlVGr
And here's another one of Momoshiki's feats
Here's him draining this Dimension, and MULTIPLE OTHER UNIVERSES IN SECONDS!
https://imgur.com/a/4wR6FDD
Now I know what you're thinking……
Wait………… It says he's drawing from his surroundings and since they were in his Parallel Dimension, doesn't make it only ONE Universe?
WRONG!
It clearly says he was also draining not only from his surroundings, but even BEYOND the Parallel Dimension he created.
Meaning he was absorbing chakra from his dimension and chakra from an unknown amount of other dimensions that are beyond his. Unless you think there's just pure nothingness beyond his dimension. Which we know is false cause it literally says he was getting chakra from beyond his dimension.
And finally Jigen
While we didn't see even much of a fraction of his Dimension, to assume his Dimension, when I've already proved why Kaguya's and Momoshiki's are, plus the fact that he stomped, nearly one shotted at that, much stronger versions of Naruto and Sasuke that Kaguya and Momoshiki lost to weaker versions than, ISN'T a Universe………. Is honestly Asinine.
https://imgur.com/a/FH1iJu2
https://imgur.com/a/WCg4by2
So yes, these guys all have consistent feats
I've proven why NONE OF IT IS MISTRANSLATION
AND NONE OF IT IS AN OUTLIER FEAT(S)
So for all you negatively biased people against Naruto
So Author's Words+Consistent with Other Feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your Opinion!
And OH BOY
I'm just getting started…………...
Act 2-
Naruto has greater power than that of ENTIRE UNIVERSES!
Don't believe me……….
So as I showed before
Momoshiki has demonstrated the ability to absorb Multiple Universes of their power in mere moments
https://imgur.com/a/4wR6FDD
Yet it took him HOURS TO A WHOLE DAY to absorb a PORTION of Naruto's Chakra
https://imgur.com/a/irQqEXR
So Momoshiki can absorb Universes like fodder yet has a hard time absorbing SOME of Naruto's Power………
This proves that Naruto has more power than entire Universes and even a MERE PORTION of Naruto's Chakra UTTERLY DWARFS that of ENTIRE UNIVERSES and this proves it by FEATS!
Also, Naruto's Chakra as an Adult has become SO POWERFUL that it caused his Universes Space Curvature to turn from under a 10 to OVER A 16 and is actually CAUSING CRACKS IN SPACE AND TIME ITSELF!
And this all from a SUPRESSED/PASSIVE Naruto just going about his life and doing paperwork in his office!
And it was how Momoshiki and Kinshiki found him in the first place! Because Naruto's Power could be felt throughout all Space and Time by them from god knows how many Dimensions away.
I repeat…………
Naruto's power is so great, it could be sensed from other dimensions and the universes in those dimensions. It was how Momoshiki and Kinshiki originally found him and started the plot for Boruto in the first Place.
https://imgur.com/a/xRBYpi1
And before people try to claim this as an Outlier
This is ACTUALLY CONSISTENT with a feat Naruto has in Shippuden during his fight with Kaguya that at NOT EVEN HIS STRONGEST FORM NOR EVEN HIS FULL POWER AS WELL AS BEING EXHAUSTED ON TOP OF THAT, Naruto still had SO MUCH CHAKRA, that Sasuke could sense Naruto charging up his chakra from SEVERAL DIMENSIONS (EACH AT LEAST UNIVERSE+ IN SIZE AS I'VE SHOWN) AWAY!
https://imgur.com/a/Ecyv0uw
So a suppressed Adult Naruto's Chakra growing beyond even that to the point where it can destroy all of Space and Time is actually consistent and just goes to show how much stronger he has gotten as an Adult.
Act 3-
Now here's where things might heat up a little………….
Now before you go crazy
Hear me out
What if I told you………...?
That Naruto characters…………
Are potentially……………
POTENTIALLY…………………
Outerversal……………….?
………………………….
You Guys: "KILL HIM!"
"SET HIM ON FIRE!"
"BURN THE WANKER AT THE STAKE!"
Me: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!!!
PUT DOWN YOUR PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES!
LET ME EXPLAIN MYSELF!!!!!
You Guys: ………… You get one shot
Me: Thank you
Now you see
I DO have a reason for insinuating this
Here are my reasons………...
So…...
Hagoromo Otsutsuki has shown that he is SO POWERFUL that he exists beyond Space and Time itself and even the concept of DEATH ITSELF!
Don't believe me?
It's confirmed in the databooks
https://imgur.com/a/hAsT47D
He confirms it himself, No matter what translation you use
https://imgur.com/a/fWO4UtU
And finally to back this up, he has shown that he is Omnipresent as such like when he was seen talking to Naruto and Sasuke while simultaneously existing in two different places at the same time
https://imgur.com/a/q9kHS1K
Further proof to back this up when he is shown to easily be able to manipulate the Pure Land itself, a realm that has shown to be BEYOND SPACE AND TIME ITSELF! (Hence Kakashi and Obito's young appearances)
https://imgur.com/a/9vieWLL
Now some people might say
Even if we believed this
It would make like……. Infinite 5th Dimensional at best
Since he is probably only above Linear Time or Something and not the full extent of it.
But here's the thing……………...
How would Kishimoto know any of that?
He doesn't know about there being different dimensions of Infinity?
Or there being different levels of Time?
You think he goes around on sites like these and thinks
Hmm……………
I think I want to make Madara Complex Multiversal with Immeasurable Speeds and Kaguya Hyperversal with Near Omnipotent Power or Infinite 49th Dimensional or whatever?
I doubt it…………….
Most people don't know about this kind of tiering unless your nerds like me and everyone else here.
When Kishi made Hagoromo beyond Space and Time, or had Naruto crack Space and Time by existing
He was most likely going for the WHOLE 9 Yards!
More proof of what I'm saying might be true
Well
When Kishimoto is referring to Universe or Multiverse
He most likely means
Universe= Infinite Dimensional Realm
Multiverse= Omniverse
Now people ask what I'm talking about
There ARE series and franchises who do that
Like MARVEL, DC, and BEN 10
When they refer to Multiverse, we know they mean Omniverse because they're actual Omniverses.
And you're thinking
How can that work for Naruto?
Well when Kishimoto stated for Kaguya's Dimensions to be Universes he mostly likely meant for them to be Infinite Dimensional Realms
Proof of this:
Obito could connect to the Main Time Space and his Kamui Dimension with ease without any trouble whatsoever
Yet when he tries to open a portal in Kaguya's Dimensions to find Sasuke, even with Sakura's Chaka (A KAGE KEVEL SHINOBI) he struggled to open a portal for even just A FEW SECONDS and it starts to close immediately afterwards. He was in awe of just how VAST Kaguya's Dimensions were and how she could move in between them and control them with such ease even flat out calling it "A VAST TIME SPACE" when the Time Space of WHOLE UNIVERSES don't impress him in the slightest proving that Kaguya's Dimensions are bigger than just normal Universes and that they're most likely INFINITE REALMS!
https://imgur.com/a/es9NCSv
More proof of this to back this up is Momoshiki's Red Shift Nebula in his Dimension which shows an INFINITELY EXPANDING REALM! This is MORE PROOF that Kishi most likely meant for Universe to mean Infinite Dimensional Realm because he made Momo's Infinitely Growing
https://imgur.com/a/weJlVGr
Also, Kaguya's Yomotsu Hirasaka allows her to EXIST OUTSIDE of Space and Time.
The user is able to open rifts in the fabric of space/time that allow them to instantaneously transport themselves to another locatio
https://imgur.com/a/eh0voIg
The reason this is more proof that Kishi meant the full extent of space/time is because she was able to use this technique to get the drop on Naruto and Sasuke. NARUTO! The same person who can sense beings in other Dimensions like Sasuke and on another totally separate Plane of Existence like Madara's limbo Clones!
https://imgur.com/a/VQYYX5x
https://imgur.com/a/CFGLubD
Rinnegan (Sasuke)
TRANSCENDING DIMENSIONS, it's the strongest Doujutsu!!
It's LITERALLY STATED that Sasuke's Power Transcends Dimensions when he uses his Rinnegan!
https://imgur.com/a/cCW1Gbz
Now I know some people will say
"Wait! Sasuke with his Rinnegan can Dimension Travel!
That's why it says that!
He can Dimensional Travel, thus "Transcending" the borders between Alternate Dimensions!
That would be possible
But considering ALL the evidence I've been giving you about this, do you honestly still think that's what he meant?
More proof:
Naruto, Sasuke, Kaguya, Madara, Momoshiki, Kinshiki, and Jigen, and the Juubi all have Infinite Chakra!
Proof:
The Juubi was stated and shown to have Infinite and Immeasurable Chakra by Kurama and SM Naruto
And even a SMALL FRACTION of a NERFED Kaguya's Chakra UTTERLY DWARFING the Juubi's Chakra!
https://imgur.com/a/hpbIDVc
https://imgur.com/a/CjcstyP
So Kaguya has Infinite Chakra!
Kurama's words are COMPLETELY RELIABLE seeing as he WAS ONCE A PART OF THE JUUBI!
Even if we ignore the fact that we LITERALLY SAW the Juubi's Infinite Chakra, what reason would Kurama have to lie?!
He's trying to help Naruto out by feeding him as much Info as possible! So they both don't get enslaved/die.
Even if we ignore Kurama's words, it was stated even before this by Obito
When he told the Kages of the Juubi and said it had NEAR Infinite Chakra (He's studied the lore for years so you he's not entirely wrong)
https://imgur.com/a/Ms8snM9
And a fraction of Kaguya's chakra was WAY BEYOND THAT!
So what's not only greater than Near Infinite but WAY GREATER than it!
FREAKING INFINITE!
And before people try to pull the Black Zetsu said Kaguya uses up a lot of chakra to move her Dimensions or she absorbed the Shinobi Alliance Chakra to perform her ETSB
Need I remind you that
1. A Pre Six Paths Power Up Naruto in Unmastered Bijuu Mode with only a SMALL FRACTION of a YANG Kurama's Chakra, was able to CASUALY power up THOUSANDS of Shinobi to 3x the level of Kakashi who can fight on par with Akatsuki Members each of whom are worth THOUSANDS of Shinobi with LOWBALL! This Naruto wouldn't even be comparable to JUUBITO let alone KAGUYA! So the Shinobi Alliance isn't even 1% of Kaguya's Power
2. How can Kaguya have Infinite Chakra if she loses a huge amount? You seem to be forgetting that Outerversal beings are beings of GREATER THAN INFINITE POWER! So while her power is Infinite in one set, it's FINITE in another set! The Juubi having Infinite Chakra and Kaguya having greater than Infinite Chakra is consistent and is more proof! With just .1% of her power, she was going to perform a potential Infinite Dimensional+ (Bare Minimum Universal-Multiversal) Feat!
3. So characters like Juubidara who scale to the Prime Juubi have Infinite Chakra and Teen Naruto and Sasuke would have Near Infinite Reserves. And Fused Momoshiki, Jigen, Adults Naruto and Sasuke have more sets of Infinity due to being stronger than her.
4. In fact, that was the whole reason Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki in the first place! While she was stronger than Base Momoshiki in terms of raw power his ability was specifically meant to counter hers. The power to absorb almost any attack and add them to his arsenal making them at least 3x more powerful! Normally that wouldn't be a problem because he would have a limit to how much he can absorb! But here's the thing……… Momoshiki HAS NO LIMIT to how much he can absorb!
Proof: Why else would she be frightened of his ability?! If he had a limit, then she could just overload it and it would destroy him from the inside out much like Toneri did when he absorbed Naruto's Chakra and Sunlight and began to mutate and go out of control in "The Last" (Though granted he had been near dead, exhausted, and his eyes had been ripped out so he has an excuse)
But if he had no limit, then she has cause to be frightened of his ability because whatever she would throw at him he could absorb endlessly!
This WOULD make the MOST SENSE!
So that's even MORE PROOF!
But to those who say Kaguya is still overall stronger than no………...
Base Momo after absorbing "Half" of Naruto's Chakra surpassed her in power
And Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki while revved up on "Half" of Naruto's Chakra FAR surpassed her in raw power by I'd say by a few sets of Infinity due to Naruto having more power than her at this point by a lot
In fact, if I had to make a guesstimate
I'd say
Prime Kaguya+Kinshiki= 50% Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki while revved up on "Half" of Naruto's Chakra
While 100% Momo would surpass that greatly
So YES, he's still stronger
Plus, it shows how much power Naruto has!
Also more about Naruto's Chakra
He got stronger as the Kaguya fight went on. As shown when he was holding his own against her using just Taijutsu and swapped hands with her as he did most of the fighting himself! He didn't use Ninjutsu or go into his Asura Kurama Sage Mode or anything because she would have jutsu absorbed them.
https://imgur.com/a/81YtJlE
He fought her for HOURS STARIGHT without stopping with JUST TAIJUTSU! And Kaguya was trying to reclaim the "Massive Chakra" that was in Naruto! Kaguya…………. The woman with more than Infinite Chakra, acknowledged Naruto's Chakra as Massive
It's because even though she had Infinite Chakra, even she could sense that Naruto's Chakra was very much a match for her own. Even she understood that the chakra inside of Naruto was massive, and constantly growing more powerful the longer that Naruto was fighting her. He was also able to overpower her in both speed and strength, both of which she had in inhuman levels.
https://imgur.com/a/RsVrhiB
And before people try to use this to downplay Kaguya keep in mind that Naruto was becoming so powerful that Kaguya and Black Zetsu just said screw it! His chakra isn't worth it! Naruto has no become a genuine THREAT in the eyes of a Dimension Creating/Destroying Primordial Goddess!
https://imgur.com/a/gk9MFst
And remember how I showed you Momoshiki draining Naruto earlier and how he had more power than entire Universes! Momo can drain Infinite energy and struggles to drain just a "half" of Naruto's Infinite Chakra.
Showing that Kaguya was right about his Reserves Infinitely Growing.
Plus………… he has so much power that Momoshiki calls him A MONSTER!
The same guy who can destroy Universes like fodder SAW NARUTO AS A MONSTER IN POWER!
https://imgur.com/a/1WEhHeL
This is further backed up by the fact that when he stabbed all the Kages with Gedo Rods he used several on everyone except Naruto saying he saw Naruto as the real threat. While Sasuke is stronger than Momoshiki too yes Momo saw Naruto as the greater threat between the duo. Showing how weary of Naruto he still was even while he was weakened.
https://imgur.com/a/XRX2Jel
Also forgot to mention
Kaguya was going to destroy ALL of SPACE/TIME of her Dimensions as stated by the Anime/Manga and return it to NOTHING as stated by the Databooks. Most likely referring to the nothingness that lies beyond Space/Time and even Dimensions themselves.
Expansive Truthseeker Orb ('Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë', Bōchō Gudōdama)
It is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, Ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb Chakra from all of the Shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the Universe and return it to nothing. Ôåæ Caption: Comprised of all Chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the Universe, it was a huge mass of chaos.
https://imgur.com/a/RenOYPE
So I think I'm just about done here…………
Conclusion-
I think I've made my point pretty clear.
I've given you Statements yes, but ALMOST ALL OF THEM were backed up by Scaling, CONSISTENT Feats, and even WORD OF AUTHOR HIMSELF (Kaguya's and Juubi's Databook Entries, 4th Databook was written by Kishimoto)
Plus one more thing to further back this up is that WE ALL KNOW Kishimoto WANTED to make the Narutoverse AS STRONG AS POSSSIBLE! Hence all the power ups in the war Arc! So this isn't ENTIRELY FARFETCHED!
If there's anything I forgot, I'm sure we'll discuss this further in the thread
So in conclusion
I'd say Naruto's Strongest God Tiers (Not all of them, like Toneri, Juubito, BSM Teen Naruto)
Would rank
At least:
Multiversal- Teen Naruto and Sasuke, Juubidara, Kinshiki, Urashiki without PIS, Kaguya, Hagoromo during the Kaguya Battle and Post Death, Hamura, Fragment Juubi
Complex Multiversal- Jinchurki Hagoromo, Momoshiki, Adult Naruto and Sasuke, Jigen, Implied Original Juubi
Likely by what Kishimoto most likely intended:
Universe Busters (Vs Battle Logic being Infinite Dimensional)- Teen Naruto and Sasuke, Juubidara, Kinshiki, Urashiki without PIS, Kaguya, Hagoromo during the Kaguya Battle, Hamura, Fragment Juubi
Multiversal (Vs battle Logic being Outerversal, but NOT HIGH OUTERVERSAL! Just Low-Mid Outerversal)- Jinchurki Hagoromo and Post Death Hagoromo, Momoshiki, Adult Naruto and Sasuke, Jigen, Implied Original Juubi
Like I said floors open
I'm prepared to make HISTORY!
Whether in a good…………. Or bad way
Bring it!
You're being a huge wanker and you shouldn't be taken seriously if you think anyone in Naruto is even Planet level let alone Multiversal and beyond!
But here's the thing,
I'm nearly 100% confident in the evidence I have to show you
Since I will be using Statements backed up by Scaling, Feats, and WORD OF AUTHOR HIMSELF!
To people who might feel differently
I'll be happy to debate with you
To people who will do nothing but leave memes and troll
All you're doing in my eyes is conceding to me being right and not wanting to admit it out loud
You will be ignored
I want actual debaters who will be willing to have friendly discussions
Not trolls……….
Also....... use the links I put, they're my evidence
On that final note,
Here…...we……go…………
The size of Kaguya's Dimensions has always been a controversial topic
But I will end it here
They are Universes
And to those who guys who say she didn't create them or even she created them over a long unknown period of time……...
You're both wrong
It was confirmed in the Databooks that not only did she create them
But she created them at will/instantaneously at that
https://imgur.com/a/Te1JwxF
It was confirmed by Kishimoto that she could destroy these Dimensions just as easily AND that Kaguya is Multiversal in the databooks and manga.
https://imgur.com/a/RuJxzfe
Expansive Truthseeker Orb ('Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë', Bōchō Gudōdama)
It is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, Ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb Chakra from all of the Shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the Universe and return it to nothing. Ôåæ Caption: Comprised of all Chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the Universe, it was a huge mass of chaos.
And I know what people are going to say...... The red highlighted part in the Picture says Sekai which can mean WORLD TOO! Therefore, Kaguya is only Planet Level WANKER!
But here's the thing, even if we lowball Kaguya's Dimensions they're at least Solar System in Size due to having Stars in each of them, NOT JUST ONE OF THEM as you clearly see!
https://imgur.com/a/JrM7UHV
But here's the thing, Solar System in Japanese is Taiyōkei
NOT SEKAI!
So if MULTIPLE DIMENSIONS have STARS IN THEM, and it says SEKAI IT'S TALKING ABOUT THE UNIVERSE! Because SAYING WORLD WOULD MAKE NO SENSE DUE TO THEM HAVING STARS!
Sekai means either.... Society, World, or Universe
Society- I think WE ALL don't need to explain why this doesn't work whatsoever
World- You admit to seeing the Stars, But STARS DON'T EXIST ON PLANETS! THAT MAKES NO SENSE!
You can't even use the word Hoshi or Wakusei
Hoshi means either Star or Planet and Wakusei means Planet
Yes there are Stars in Kaguya's Dimension but the Databook uses SEKAI! NOT HOSHI OR WAKUSEI!
And you can't use Uchu. I know it means Universe as well but if you say Sekai doesn't count and it should use Uchu then you've CLEARLY forgotten WHAT A SYNONYM IS!
So if Sekai is the word.....
Saying Society and Planet doesn't make any sense
Then that CAN ONLY MEAN IT'S A UNIVERSE!
And once again to those who are saying where are the Nebulae, Black Holes, and such,
Just because we didn't see the FULL Dimension doesn't mean it's not a Universe.
Plus, them being Universes is consistent with the Juubi having CREATED THE UNIVERSE, which was confirmed in the databooks. And even a FRACTION OF a NERFED Kaguya's Chakra utterly dwarfing the Juubi.
https://imgur.com/a/Jclp5YO
https://imgur.com/a/CjcstyP
And before you start saying how Universe is mistranslation for World or it meant that the Original Juubi was Universal and not the fragment that Kaguya devoured I will debunk those notions here and now.
Here's the Original Translation:
https://imgur.com/a/Y2IHhPv
It says "Tenchi" [Õñ®Õ£░] which means "Heaven and Earth", commonly used to refer to the universe. LOOK IT UP EVEN!
Exact translation would be: A piece of the God Tree created Heaven, Earth, and Life - Ten-Tails
So not only does it prove that Universe ISN'T a mistranslation for world, it also that only just ONE FRAGEMNET ALONE created the Main Naruto Universe.
Which also implies there's a sort of greater god tree that acts as a God of War Yggdrasil for the Naruto verse or like the Root in Fate that is FAR STRONGER!
Now I know what people are going to start saying……
Even if we believe this
She's still an Outlier for the verse and no scales to her still
Me: ………. BWAHAHAHAHA!
There are PLENTY of characters that are not only stronger than Kaguya, but have similar feats.
It's also consistent with Momoshiki's Dimension PROVING it's an INFINITELY EXPANDING UNIVERSE!
Why?
It's called a Parallel Dimension and parallel has connotations for meaning equal in size
https://imgur.com/a/H8Lr5Xc
Also........
A Red Shift Nebula is a sign of an ever expanding Universe its part of the Big Bang Theory.
Momoshiki's Dimension has Red Shift Nebula
Therefore, it's an Infinitely Expanding Universe
https://imgur.com/a/weJlVGr
And here's another one of Momoshiki's feats
Here's him draining this Dimension, and MULTIPLE OTHER UNIVERSES IN SECONDS!
https://imgur.com/a/4wR6FDD
Now I know what you're thinking……
Wait………… It says he's drawing from his surroundings and since they were in his Parallel Dimension, doesn't make it only ONE Universe?
WRONG!
It clearly says he was also draining not only from his surroundings, but even BEYOND the Parallel Dimension he created.
Meaning he was absorbing chakra from his dimension and chakra from an unknown amount of other dimensions that are beyond his. Unless you think there's just pure nothingness beyond his dimension. Which we know is false cause it literally says he was getting chakra from beyond his dimension.
And finally Jigen
While we didn't see even much of a fraction of his Dimension, to assume his Dimension, when I've already proved why Kaguya's and Momoshiki's are, plus the fact that he stomped, nearly one shotted at that, much stronger versions of Naruto and Sasuke that Kaguya and Momoshiki lost to weaker versions than, ISN'T a Universe………. Is honestly Asinine.
https://imgur.com/a/FH1iJu2
https://imgur.com/a/WCg4by2
So yes, these guys all have consistent feats
I've proven why NONE OF IT IS MISTRANSLATION
AND NONE OF IT IS AN OUTLIER FEAT(S)
So for all you negatively biased people against Naruto
So Author's Words+Consistent with Other Feats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Your Opinion!
And OH BOY
I'm just getting started…………...
Act 2-
Naruto has greater power than that of ENTIRE UNIVERSES!
Don't believe me……….
So as I showed before
Momoshiki has demonstrated the ability to absorb Multiple Universes of their power in mere moments
https://imgur.com/a/4wR6FDD
Yet it took him HOURS TO A WHOLE DAY to absorb a PORTION of Naruto's Chakra
https://imgur.com/a/irQqEXR
So Momoshiki can absorb Universes like fodder yet has a hard time absorbing SOME of Naruto's Power………
This proves that Naruto has more power than entire Universes and even a MERE PORTION of Naruto's Chakra UTTERLY DWARFS that of ENTIRE UNIVERSES and this proves it by FEATS!
Also, Naruto's Chakra as an Adult has become SO POWERFUL that it caused his Universes Space Curvature to turn from under a 10 to OVER A 16 and is actually CAUSING CRACKS IN SPACE AND TIME ITSELF!
And this all from a SUPRESSED/PASSIVE Naruto just going about his life and doing paperwork in his office!
And it was how Momoshiki and Kinshiki found him in the first place! Because Naruto's Power could be felt throughout all Space and Time by them from god knows how many Dimensions away.
I repeat…………
Naruto's power is so great, it could be sensed from other dimensions and the universes in those dimensions. It was how Momoshiki and Kinshiki originally found him and started the plot for Boruto in the first Place.
https://imgur.com/a/xRBYpi1
And before people try to claim this as an Outlier
This is ACTUALLY CONSISTENT with a feat Naruto has in Shippuden during his fight with Kaguya that at NOT EVEN HIS STRONGEST FORM NOR EVEN HIS FULL POWER AS WELL AS BEING EXHAUSTED ON TOP OF THAT, Naruto still had SO MUCH CHAKRA, that Sasuke could sense Naruto charging up his chakra from SEVERAL DIMENSIONS (EACH AT LEAST UNIVERSE+ IN SIZE AS I'VE SHOWN) AWAY!
https://imgur.com/a/Ecyv0uw
So a suppressed Adult Naruto's Chakra growing beyond even that to the point where it can destroy all of Space and Time is actually consistent and just goes to show how much stronger he has gotten as an Adult.
Act 3-
Now here's where things might heat up a little………….
Now before you go crazy
Hear me out
What if I told you………...?
That Naruto characters…………
Are potentially……………
POTENTIALLY…………………
Outerversal……………….?
………………………….
You Guys: "KILL HIM!"
"SET HIM ON FIRE!"
"BURN THE WANKER AT THE STAKE!"
Me: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!!!!
PUT DOWN YOUR PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES!
LET ME EXPLAIN MYSELF!!!!!
You Guys: ………… You get one shot
Me: Thank you
Now you see
I DO have a reason for insinuating this
Here are my reasons………...
So…...
Hagoromo Otsutsuki has shown that he is SO POWERFUL that he exists beyond Space and Time itself and even the concept of DEATH ITSELF!
Don't believe me?
It's confirmed in the databooks
https://imgur.com/a/hAsT47D
He confirms it himself, No matter what translation you use
https://imgur.com/a/fWO4UtU
And finally to back this up, he has shown that he is Omnipresent as such like when he was seen talking to Naruto and Sasuke while simultaneously existing in two different places at the same time
https://imgur.com/a/q9kHS1K
Further proof to back this up when he is shown to easily be able to manipulate the Pure Land itself, a realm that has shown to be BEYOND SPACE AND TIME ITSELF! (Hence Kakashi and Obito's young appearances)
https://imgur.com/a/9vieWLL
Now some people might say
Even if we believed this
It would make like……. Infinite 5th Dimensional at best
Since he is probably only above Linear Time or Something and not the full extent of it.
But here's the thing……………...
How would Kishimoto know any of that?
He doesn't know about there being different dimensions of Infinity?
Or there being different levels of Time?
You think he goes around on sites like these and thinks
Hmm……………
I think I want to make Madara Complex Multiversal with Immeasurable Speeds and Kaguya Hyperversal with Near Omnipotent Power or Infinite 49th Dimensional or whatever?
I doubt it…………….
Most people don't know about this kind of tiering unless your nerds like me and everyone else here.
When Kishi made Hagoromo beyond Space and Time, or had Naruto crack Space and Time by existing
He was most likely going for the WHOLE 9 Yards!
More proof of what I'm saying might be true
Well
When Kishimoto is referring to Universe or Multiverse
He most likely means
Universe= Infinite Dimensional Realm
Multiverse= Omniverse
Now people ask what I'm talking about
There ARE series and franchises who do that
Like MARVEL, DC, and BEN 10
When they refer to Multiverse, we know they mean Omniverse because they're actual Omniverses.
And you're thinking
How can that work for Naruto?
Well when Kishimoto stated for Kaguya's Dimensions to be Universes he mostly likely meant for them to be Infinite Dimensional Realms
Proof of this:
Obito could connect to the Main Time Space and his Kamui Dimension with ease without any trouble whatsoever
Yet when he tries to open a portal in Kaguya's Dimensions to find Sasuke, even with Sakura's Chaka (A KAGE KEVEL SHINOBI) he struggled to open a portal for even just A FEW SECONDS and it starts to close immediately afterwards. He was in awe of just how VAST Kaguya's Dimensions were and how she could move in between them and control them with such ease even flat out calling it "A VAST TIME SPACE" when the Time Space of WHOLE UNIVERSES don't impress him in the slightest proving that Kaguya's Dimensions are bigger than just normal Universes and that they're most likely INFINITE REALMS!
https://imgur.com/a/es9NCSv
More proof of this to back this up is Momoshiki's Red Shift Nebula in his Dimension which shows an INFINITELY EXPANDING REALM! This is MORE PROOF that Kishi most likely meant for Universe to mean Infinite Dimensional Realm because he made Momo's Infinitely Growing
https://imgur.com/a/weJlVGr
Also, Kaguya's Yomotsu Hirasaka allows her to EXIST OUTSIDE of Space and Time.
The user is able to open rifts in the fabric of space/time that allow them to instantaneously transport themselves to another locatio
https://imgur.com/a/eh0voIg
The reason this is more proof that Kishi meant the full extent of space/time is because she was able to use this technique to get the drop on Naruto and Sasuke. NARUTO! The same person who can sense beings in other Dimensions like Sasuke and on another totally separate Plane of Existence like Madara's limbo Clones!
https://imgur.com/a/VQYYX5x
https://imgur.com/a/CFGLubD
Rinnegan (Sasuke)
TRANSCENDING DIMENSIONS, it's the strongest Doujutsu!!
It's LITERALLY STATED that Sasuke's Power Transcends Dimensions when he uses his Rinnegan!
https://imgur.com/a/cCW1Gbz
Now I know some people will say
"Wait! Sasuke with his Rinnegan can Dimension Travel!
That's why it says that!
He can Dimensional Travel, thus "Transcending" the borders between Alternate Dimensions!
That would be possible
But considering ALL the evidence I've been giving you about this, do you honestly still think that's what he meant?
More proof:
Naruto, Sasuke, Kaguya, Madara, Momoshiki, Kinshiki, and Jigen, and the Juubi all have Infinite Chakra!
Proof:
The Juubi was stated and shown to have Infinite and Immeasurable Chakra by Kurama and SM Naruto
And even a SMALL FRACTION of a NERFED Kaguya's Chakra UTTERLY DWARFING the Juubi's Chakra!
https://imgur.com/a/hpbIDVc
https://imgur.com/a/CjcstyP
So Kaguya has Infinite Chakra!
Kurama's words are COMPLETELY RELIABLE seeing as he WAS ONCE A PART OF THE JUUBI!
Even if we ignore the fact that we LITERALLY SAW the Juubi's Infinite Chakra, what reason would Kurama have to lie?!
He's trying to help Naruto out by feeding him as much Info as possible! So they both don't get enslaved/die.
Even if we ignore Kurama's words, it was stated even before this by Obito
When he told the Kages of the Juubi and said it had NEAR Infinite Chakra (He's studied the lore for years so you he's not entirely wrong)
https://imgur.com/a/Ms8snM9
And a fraction of Kaguya's chakra was WAY BEYOND THAT!
So what's not only greater than Near Infinite but WAY GREATER than it!
FREAKING INFINITE!
And before people try to pull the Black Zetsu said Kaguya uses up a lot of chakra to move her Dimensions or she absorbed the Shinobi Alliance Chakra to perform her ETSB
Need I remind you that
1. A Pre Six Paths Power Up Naruto in Unmastered Bijuu Mode with only a SMALL FRACTION of a YANG Kurama's Chakra, was able to CASUALY power up THOUSANDS of Shinobi to 3x the level of Kakashi who can fight on par with Akatsuki Members each of whom are worth THOUSANDS of Shinobi with LOWBALL! This Naruto wouldn't even be comparable to JUUBITO let alone KAGUYA! So the Shinobi Alliance isn't even 1% of Kaguya's Power
2. How can Kaguya have Infinite Chakra if she loses a huge amount? You seem to be forgetting that Outerversal beings are beings of GREATER THAN INFINITE POWER! So while her power is Infinite in one set, it's FINITE in another set! The Juubi having Infinite Chakra and Kaguya having greater than Infinite Chakra is consistent and is more proof! With just .1% of her power, she was going to perform a potential Infinite Dimensional+ (Bare Minimum Universal-Multiversal) Feat!
3. So characters like Juubidara who scale to the Prime Juubi have Infinite Chakra and Teen Naruto and Sasuke would have Near Infinite Reserves. And Fused Momoshiki, Jigen, Adults Naruto and Sasuke have more sets of Infinity due to being stronger than her.
4. In fact, that was the whole reason Kaguya was afraid of Momoshiki in the first place! While she was stronger than Base Momoshiki in terms of raw power his ability was specifically meant to counter hers. The power to absorb almost any attack and add them to his arsenal making them at least 3x more powerful! Normally that wouldn't be a problem because he would have a limit to how much he can absorb! But here's the thing……… Momoshiki HAS NO LIMIT to how much he can absorb!
Proof: Why else would she be frightened of his ability?! If he had a limit, then she could just overload it and it would destroy him from the inside out much like Toneri did when he absorbed Naruto's Chakra and Sunlight and began to mutate and go out of control in "The Last" (Though granted he had been near dead, exhausted, and his eyes had been ripped out so he has an excuse)
But if he had no limit, then she has cause to be frightened of his ability because whatever she would throw at him he could absorb endlessly!
This WOULD make the MOST SENSE!
So that's even MORE PROOF!
But to those who say Kaguya is still overall stronger than no………...
Base Momo after absorbing "Half" of Naruto's Chakra surpassed her in power
And Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki while revved up on "Half" of Naruto's Chakra FAR surpassed her in raw power by I'd say by a few sets of Infinity due to Naruto having more power than her at this point by a lot
In fact, if I had to make a guesstimate
I'd say
Prime Kaguya+Kinshiki= 50% Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki while revved up on "Half" of Naruto's Chakra
While 100% Momo would surpass that greatly
So YES, he's still stronger
Plus, it shows how much power Naruto has!
Also more about Naruto's Chakra
He got stronger as the Kaguya fight went on. As shown when he was holding his own against her using just Taijutsu and swapped hands with her as he did most of the fighting himself! He didn't use Ninjutsu or go into his Asura Kurama Sage Mode or anything because she would have jutsu absorbed them.
https://imgur.com/a/81YtJlE
He fought her for HOURS STARIGHT without stopping with JUST TAIJUTSU! And Kaguya was trying to reclaim the "Massive Chakra" that was in Naruto! Kaguya…………. The woman with more than Infinite Chakra, acknowledged Naruto's Chakra as Massive
It's because even though she had Infinite Chakra, even she could sense that Naruto's Chakra was very much a match for her own. Even she understood that the chakra inside of Naruto was massive, and constantly growing more powerful the longer that Naruto was fighting her. He was also able to overpower her in both speed and strength, both of which she had in inhuman levels.
https://imgur.com/a/RsVrhiB
And before people try to use this to downplay Kaguya keep in mind that Naruto was becoming so powerful that Kaguya and Black Zetsu just said screw it! His chakra isn't worth it! Naruto has no become a genuine THREAT in the eyes of a Dimension Creating/Destroying Primordial Goddess!
https://imgur.com/a/gk9MFst
And remember how I showed you Momoshiki draining Naruto earlier and how he had more power than entire Universes! Momo can drain Infinite energy and struggles to drain just a "half" of Naruto's Infinite Chakra.
Showing that Kaguya was right about his Reserves Infinitely Growing.
Plus………… he has so much power that Momoshiki calls him A MONSTER!
The same guy who can destroy Universes like fodder SAW NARUTO AS A MONSTER IN POWER!
https://imgur.com/a/1WEhHeL
This is further backed up by the fact that when he stabbed all the Kages with Gedo Rods he used several on everyone except Naruto saying he saw Naruto as the real threat. While Sasuke is stronger than Momoshiki too yes Momo saw Naruto as the greater threat between the duo. Showing how weary of Naruto he still was even while he was weakened.
https://imgur.com/a/XRX2Jel
Also forgot to mention
Kaguya was going to destroy ALL of SPACE/TIME of her Dimensions as stated by the Anime/Manga and return it to NOTHING as stated by the Databooks. Most likely referring to the nothingness that lies beyond Space/Time and even Dimensions themselves.
Expansive Truthseeker Orb ('Þå¿Õ╝Áµ▒éÚüôþÄë', Bōchō Gudōdama)
It is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, Ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb Chakra from all of the Shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the Universe and return it to nothing. Ôåæ Caption: Comprised of all Chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim. Created to reshape the Universe, it was a huge mass of chaos.
https://imgur.com/a/RenOYPE
So I think I'm just about done here…………
Conclusion-
I think I've made my point pretty clear.
I've given you Statements yes, but ALMOST ALL OF THEM were backed up by Scaling, CONSISTENT Feats, and even WORD OF AUTHOR HIMSELF (Kaguya's and Juubi's Databook Entries, 4th Databook was written by Kishimoto)
Plus one more thing to further back this up is that WE ALL KNOW Kishimoto WANTED to make the Narutoverse AS STRONG AS POSSSIBLE! Hence all the power ups in the war Arc! So this isn't ENTIRELY FARFETCHED!
If there's anything I forgot, I'm sure we'll discuss this further in the thread
So in conclusion
I'd say Naruto's Strongest God Tiers (Not all of them, like Toneri, Juubito, BSM Teen Naruto)
Would rank
At least:
Multiversal- Teen Naruto and Sasuke, Juubidara, Kinshiki, Urashiki without PIS, Kaguya, Hagoromo during the Kaguya Battle and Post Death, Hamura, Fragment Juubi
Complex Multiversal- Jinchurki Hagoromo, Momoshiki, Adult Naruto and Sasuke, Jigen, Implied Original Juubi
Likely by what Kishimoto most likely intended:
Universe Busters (Vs Battle Logic being Infinite Dimensional)- Teen Naruto and Sasuke, Juubidara, Kinshiki, Urashiki without PIS, Kaguya, Hagoromo during the Kaguya Battle, Hamura, Fragment Juubi
Multiversal (Vs battle Logic being Outerversal, but NOT HIGH OUTERVERSAL! Just Low-Mid Outerversal)- Jinchurki Hagoromo and Post Death Hagoromo, Momoshiki, Adult Naruto and Sasuke, Jigen, Implied Original Juubi
Like I said floors open
I'm prepared to make HISTORY!
Whether in a good…………. Or bad way
Bring it!
