• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Cell Downgrade to Baseline 4-B

Status
Not open for further replies.
The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

Read my comic
VS Battles
Retired
40,470
12,953
Alright, I wanted to stay out of the Cell thing when it first happened, but decided against it now.

1 KiloFoe Cell is, no offense, very bad.

To make it short and sweet, Cell said that his attack had the power to blow away the solar system. He didn't say that the attack would've blown away the solar system. Therefore the assumption that he would've done it from earth is null and void (plus, I'd find it to go much more under the hyperbolic statement category if the attack was millions of times stronger than anything done in the CANON Buu saga)
 
I'm leaning towards towards agreeing, though I should note that the last argument in parenthesis is... rather bad. Like, Buu is featless outside of busting the Earth (It's not Planet level, I know, but still).

Also Cal plz answer my messages. :~:

It's about Lavos.
 
@Saik. Tbh, while I saw that thread, I didn't see many staff members commenting it in the first place, and none of the ones that disagreed. Also, you know I'm bad with long posts (puff face)

@Ever. I don't mind powerscaling, obviously. And clearly Low 4-C isn't the peak of DBZ. Even being very negative, the lowest it'd get is well...very low end 4-B by the Buu Saga. But this was the argument that some made in that Marvel/DC thread, and in those cases, the accurate value was the one that was well above the consistent values, while this is a throwaway statement. When I upgraded Pokemon via statements, I had to find consistent 6-C feats (granted, through statements, but you get the point).
 
I disagree with this for multiple reasons.

1. It was already explained in much greater detail here; if a detailed explanation for each and every point is given, then so be it.

2. Super Perfect Cell is a casual 4-B, not going to be changed, not now, not ever.

3. DBZ Vs Marvel/DC is too off topic, and I personally think it never should have been unbanned. Multiple Admins agree with me on that.

4. Kid Buu is still capable of destroying every planet and star in the universe, albeit one by one. Creating/Destroying Neutron stars is calc'd at 4-B iirc. So 4-B Buu saga is a lot more consistent than some realize.
 
I will agree on the notion of disagreement.
 
I'm very confused. Haven't you just supported everything Cell said? It just seems likes your argueing the difference between blowing away a Solar System and destroying, when by this sites rules they are the same thing. Also to all the people finding things wrong with the satement - such as it being hyperbole like you said - where were ypu when Cell was Solar System baseline? It was accepted long aho and yet nothing was said against it for some reason. And people aren't assuming that he was going to do it on earth. He was literally on Earth, crouched down, making absolutely no attempt to move away. If he wasn't going to destroy it from earth where was he going to do it from? Wasn't the whole point of the attack to finish of Earth and the Z fighters as quickly as possible. I can understand Matt's theory that Cell was possibly going to hit the earth and then the chain reaction from it's destruction would destroy the solar system but all other suspicions that I've seen make no sense.
 
1. The only statement that matters is "The Kamehameha Isn't Omnidirectional" "Cell never said he would destroy it from Earth" and "Cell said he could destroy the solar system, so he is Baseline, no more" . The rest don't matter. Debunking the first, being 4-B doesn't mean the Kamehameha is omnidirectional. Charizard's Flamethrower isn't omnidirectional despite being High 6-C. The rest basically amount to using extrapolation that ultimately leads to Cell destroying it from the earth. Which no matter what, isn't said. No amount of wording will change that. The best assumption is that he knew (somehow) that he had enough ki stored up that he'd be able to emit enough energy to destroy the solar system.

2. Even in the best case scenario, SCP isn't a casual 4-B at all. What gives him a 4-B status is his strongest and final attack.

3. Completely missed the point. I could use Umbreon's tier 5 feats and it would be the same diff.

4. Depends on the method, and since we never see it, it's still a form of 4-C. Same reason why most planet busts/movers are 5-A or higher when seen, but when offscreeen, are baseline. Also, Hoshi was clearly planet in that case. Even Matt admitted he was wrong using star there. And it doesn't make sense for Babidi to have Buu destroy stars anyway.
 
So if a guy off-planet said he can destroy the earth, then that means that he's going to bust the earth from right there and is tier 4 rather than a planet buster.
 
That's all well and good but you do realise the method used to calc the feat does n require the Kamehameha to be omnidirectional right? Call just needs to hit the sun and ''"THEN''' it will explode in an omni directional blast.
 
The simple matter of the fact is that there shouldn't be a calc in the first place. There's nothing to calc.

Only thing we can assume is that Cell has the capacity to gather (insert the amount of joules needed to destroy the solar system here) of ki. Hell, Cell doesn't even say that the Solar Kamehameha was going to. He said that he could.
 
The real cal howard said:
So if a guy off-planet said he can destroy the earth, then that means that he's going to bust the earth from right there and is tier 4 rather than a planet buster.
Click to expand...
Wat? That comparison isn't even relating to Cells feat. Does every Solar System buster need to be on the aun to destroy it. Obviously if I only destroy the earth from Venus I'm just planet level. But if I destroy the entire solar system then I'm clearly Solar System.
 
Of course not, because most solar system level characters have more than just a throwaway statement to justify it. And I'm (currently) not saying that Cell's not Solar System level.
 
1. The Kamehameha has shown to have omni-directional aftermaths. And ignoring the other points completely is just baseless assumptions and borderline headcanon.

2. Yes, it is his best attack, but it's still within his power with no need for amps. The starting point of the attack clearly wasn't at the center of the solar system and was clearly aimed away from the center of the solar system.

3. That sounds like #4

4. Actually, both planets and stars were spoken separately in the original Japanese manga. If Hoshi was said exclusively, it can mean planet or star. But when both the word for planet and the word for star are both used in the same sentence separated by conjunction, then it means both. Anyway, Buu clearly isn't 4-A, 3-C, 3-B or 3-A, but he still can destroying all objects in the universe piece by piece over time. Destroying certain Neutron stars have been calc'd to be in the Megafoe department. In other words, casual 4-B is still consistent and canon.
 
Man alive. This again?

This is just completely ridiculous. Your assumption of "he only had the power to destroy the solar system" is just absurd. Destroying the solar system isn't a specific and concrete numerical amount. This isnt GBE or anything like it; the construct of solar system level energy is defined by what variables we choose to load the formula with, not what science and mathematics give us.

Also if he is able to destroy the solar system at any notable speed he is going to be clean into 4-B. Dragon ball stellar destruction is fast. The 1 KiloFOE amount is pretty low for him, tbh.

I am firmly against this for everything I listed previously and everything the defenders of it have listed here so far.
 
1. False, because the other points don't matter to the point I'm bringing up, unless you're saying that I think Cell's scaled from a video game, he's 1 FoE, and he left the solar system to blow up earth. Also, need I mention that despite this being such a big upgrade, only four staff members agreed with this, none of them being any dissenters? No Matt, Ever, me, Kal, Dragon, UMR, etc. (yes, I'm aware that Kal, UMR, SD, and myself commented, but we never left an opinion).

2. Except that it's never stated that the Solar Kamehameha would destroy the solar system. It's stated that he has enough ki to. Not to mention that's still assumptions.

4. Scans? Furthermore, Buu destroying everything in the universe while remaining anywhere near consistent to 1 megafoe in the best case scenario is absurd. Black holes would need destruction, which, using the best of black holes, is so above 1 megafoe that he'd fit right in with Kaguya in final bosses having an outlier feat.
 
@AW. You can take the same logic and make anyone who says that they'll destroy a Hyperverse 1-B, because it's a fluid term depending on what we use.

And if it's FTL, which it probably will be if it's destruction of the whole solar system, it's the tier we calculated that it would take to destroy the solar system. No matter what you say, destroying the solar system from earth with the Solar Kamehameha is never even implied in that one sentence.
 
1. Actually, Unite My Rice and Dark649 said something about agreeing with AssaltWaffle. And no one gave a decent counter argument to AssaltWaffle's respect thread. And it didn't come from the game, it game from the canon manga. The game was used just to low balled demonstrate the size of the explosion that's consistent with literally every single medium out there. If he actually used the 3DS game, the result would be much higher.

3. He stated it while charging the Solar Kamehameha, which implied he was about to destroy it even from a distance.

4. It's on the AP revisions blog for the Tier High 5-A and above. Ther due exist stars that require that much energy to destroy in out universe. There's no reason not to believe that Buu can destroy those stars too.
 
Where is the actual proof that Buu can destroy neutron stars? Because I have never seen this brought up before.
 
@Cal

It's never implied? Despite the fact that multiple data books confirm it and he actually does it in a game? Also, no, is it is FTL we just go back and use the stellar explosion formula using the assumption of an Earth-based Kamehameha.

There is no reason that he wouldn't have destroyed the solar system from Earth, nor would he refer to an arbitrary energy value based on our assumptions.
 
The Everlasting said:
Where is the actual proof that Buu can destroy neutron stars? Because I have never seen this brought up before.
Click to expand...
He can't. His best feat without scaling is blowing up a planet very casually. And all he did in the past was destroy hundreds of planets before being stopped.
 
1. Most of us still wait after doing that, btw. And I'm well aware of that. I said nothing of the games until you made me bring up the other points in AW's thread.

3. Once again, still assumptions. Cell's upgrade relies on nothing but a bunch of assumptions.

4. Except that I still have yet to see the scans of Buu being able to destroy everything in the universe. Void Termina, if he wasn't 4-A, would be a form of 4-C for not being able to destroy everything, but being stated to being capable of crushing the stars. Buu is no different.
 
Despite the mountains of evidence from the entire blog? And its only been now - despite being a high rankings staff member who is highly respected - you have decided to voice this by using poor reasining such as blaming Verse bias? My problem is not you voicing your disagreement its the timing and the way you have done so.
 
I don't see how Cells statement (backed up by every other DBZ information/source) can be compared to what you are claiming.
 
Keep in mind that the thread's not about Cell going out of 4-B, hence why it's called (or was called) "Return to baseline, Cell!"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Just_Butchering
Buu Saga Gohan, Dabura and Perfect Cell scaling
Replies
18
Views
2K
Just_Butchering
Just_Butchering
Omegas03
Weird scaling in Toei profiles.
2 3
Replies
101
Views
6K
KaizerCone
Ednaxel2
  • Locked
Toeiverse Cell Upgrade (3-A)
Replies
15
Views
3K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Vizer04
Tien Shinhan High 4-C upgrade
2 3
Replies
87
Views
3K
Vizer04
Vizer04
Damage3245
  • Locked
Cell Games Saga revisions (Dragon Ball Z)
5 6 7
Replies
267
Views
16K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Back
Top