Cell's Solar System Bust: KiloFOE or Baseline

As many of you are aware, I recently made a calculation for Cell that examined the power he would need to destroy the solar system. The calculation was done under one assumption: Cell didn't destroy the Sun before anything else.

I feel like a lot of the criticism for it came from a place of misunderstanding or innocent ignorance, rather than a genuine opposition for reasons that hold water. So I will be covering all the arguments for why this shouldn't be used and debunking them.

1. The Kamehameha Isn't Omnidirectional: Well, Cell being Solar System level already assumes that the blast is omnidirectional. While the Kamehameha itself isn't omnidirectional, it has shown the ability to explode upon impact, similar to how Vegeta's Galick Gun would destroy the Earth, only at interplanetary distances. While the initial Ki blast is a beam, the Ki explosion (or outright physical explosion) would be omnidirectional, achieving the solar system bust.

2. You Can't Use a Non-Canon Game to Scale Canon Cell: I'm not. The game only gives visualization to what canon Cell has already been accepted to be capable of. Calcing the game itself would involve taking the speed of the blast and derive an even higher result. My calculation is exclusively the power required the destroy the solar system from Earth.

3. Cell never said he would destroy it from Earth: There are three options in this scenario. Either...

• A. Cell fires the Kamehameha, which misses Earth, and travels farther into the solar system and finally hits a meteor or other planet and explodes. Now this option actually splits into A1. and A2. So really we have four possibilities.

• A1. The beam was fired towards the Sun, which would lower the result, as the blast is now closer to the Sun. This would still not be baseline though.

• A2. The beam was fired away from the Sun, which would raise the result, as the blast is now farther away from the Sun. This would be beyond my found result.

• B. The beam was fired directly at the Sun. This option is the only possible way Cell is baseline. Cell never mentions that he is targeting the Sun, and unless it was dawn/dusk, Cell could not have hit it this way without actively redirecting it. Since Cell never seems concerned with the Sun, hitting it or otherwise, this shouldn't be an option that holds water, in my opinion.

• C. The beam hits Earth and obliterates it, and then explodes. This explosion destroys the Solar System. This is what my above calculation entails, and requires the least assumption.

4. Cell said he could destroy the solar system, so he is Baseline, no more: Unlike Moon, Planet, or any of the star levels, Solar System has no rigid formula (GBE formula is used for our celestial bodies), and depends exclusively on the assumptions we make about it. Baseline Solar system level assumes that the point of origin of the blast is the Sun, and that the blast is capable of taking out Neptune. This is, for all intents and purposes, the minimum amount required to destroy the solar system. However, position of the blast within the solar system completely changes the value of the blast, unlike Planet level. If you overpower GBE of a celestial body, you're that level. The solar system, as mentioned above, doesn't have this. Assuming the solar system is destroyed from Earth, as established it should be by Cell above, it would yield KiloFOE, not baseline.

For Cell to be baseline, you must support option B of issue 3; there is no way around this.

5. Cell would just make the Sun go Supernova, destroying the solar system: Not only does this once again require the assumption of option B of issue 3, but this doesn't even work mathematically. A Supernova unleashes approximately 10^44 joules, what is known as 1 FOE. Not only is the extreme headcanon, it is only Large Star level.

6. Cell would leave Earth and then destroy the solar system: Incredibly unintuitive. Not only is the raw headcanon, but it completely butchers the meaning of the scene. Cell announces he has "gathered enough Ki" to destroy the solar system. Why would he unleash the attack that he powered with this "gathered Ki" only to not destroy the solar system, then leave after he killed Gohan and then do it? This makes no sense to me.

So I'll ask you: With your common sense and Occam's Razor, which is more likely: Cell destroys the Earth and the resulting explosion takes out the solar system, resulting in 1 KiloFOE, or Cell either turns is beam around to hit the Sun first or leaves the planet to then destroy the system after the fight ended.

TLDR: There is no TLDR for these arguments. In short: Cell busts the solar system from Earth and thus wields 1 KiloFOE of energy.

If Hellsing gets a highlight (Granted, it was needed), I think this deserve it too. This effects pretty much everyone in DBZ post-Cell saga, and I really want this to be put to bed.

Maybe this should be more of a staff disc due to its rather controversial nature? Or highlighted if you want, but that may cause the thread to explode.

SomebodyData said:

Maybe this should be more of a staff disc due to its rather controversial nature? Or highlighted if you want, but that may cause the thread to explode.

Click to expand...

You're right. I'll move it.

That said DBZ experts should get a pass.

So how does this change the existing stats?

Iapitus The Impaler said:

So how does this change the existing stats?

Click to expand...

No stats will change, but they will gain about 44x more power than before, since they are currently baseline Solar system.

I see, thank you for the clarification

I agree with this

Given the lighting on the Earth and the direction of Gohan's attack, Cell was likely aiming away from the sun.

https://youtu.be/I0WaiRulyoY?t=1m34s

FWIW there's also a calc placing First Form Frieza at 4-C, so the gap proportionally between Frieza and Cell wouldn't even change that much if both of these get accepted.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DarkDragonMedeus/Frieza_Destroys_Planet_Vegeta_Revised

I suppose that making Cell 44x baseline 4-B seems to make sense, but it is best to wait for further staff input.

Hopefully the staff that initially opposed it will see this and respond. I believe I covered all the gripes people had with it.

"I've already gathered enough ki power to blow away not only the Earth, but the solar system as well!"

Without any other headcanon, Occam's razor dictates that he indeed gathered enough energy to blow away the solar system from Earth itself, because this logic requires the least number of assumptions.

So I agree with Assaultwaffle's proposition.

The exact translation of Cell's line from Herms should clear up any doubts:

Chapter: 415 (DBZ 221), P3.2, P4.2 Context: while charging the Kamehameha
Cell: "I've already gathered enough ki power to blow away not only the Earth, but the solar system as well!"

Keep in mind that right before this he says he's going to destroy Gohan along with the Earth, it should be obvious that he means his attack will not only destroy the Earth, but the entire rest of the Solar System once it hits Gohan.

Going off the above saying Cell wasn't actually going to destroy the Solar System is like saying Cell was lying when he said he'd destroy Gohan along with the Earth, and he'd in fact use another attack to destroy it after he beat Gohan.

Remember when this thread was a staff only thread? It still is.

Stop derailing, the current discussion has nothing to do with the main topic.

I'm deleting all the non staff comments from now on

@Kaltias

Thank you for the help.

I agree with this and have shown why in the old thread.

Occam's Razor speaks for itself.

I also agree with this.

He's LS+ in his Perfect form his backscaling from his Super Perfect Form.

I know I can not comment here but it seems that everyone forgot about this.

You're not wrong.

So who is against this, if anyone?

No one.

It should probably be fine to apply then.

Cell's profile is locked. I cannot apply the calculation.

I will unlock it. Tell me here when you are done.

Done.

Okay. Should we close this thread then?

I believe so. Nothing really left to discuss.