Can this qualify for transduality type 3?

[ImmortalDread]

That just 4 truth stated but I assume she is apophatic or rather all gods in general. Yeah, if that the case, she should be TD3

TD3 is 5 truth state at least but ya

 

[PrinceofPein]

peoples spam on author twitter demand him to make the verse High 1-A or 0,

2 people doing that does not mean everyone is like that
Don't generalise this way

rather all gods in general.

Yes

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

IMO, this verse should not being brought back, i still remember peoples spam on author twitter demand him to make the verse High 1-A or 0, most people being fan of the verse because back then it was high on tiering system, like Demonbane they actually know nothing about the verse, its lore, storyline

The author looking at the comments and wondering wtf is high 1-A

 

[Vietthai96]

2 people doing that does not mean everyone is like that
Don't generalise this way

Huh, i remember there is more than just 2??, but well i don't generalise, sorry if i made you think that way

 

[PrinceofPein]

Huh, i remember there is more than just 2??, but well i don't generalise, sorry if i made you think that way

Just 2 vs wiki members and they were not even really supporters and not knowledgeable to begin with

 

[ImmortalDread]

Huh, i remember there is more than just 2??, but well i don't generalise, sorry if i made you think that way

It was offensive. Please be careful with your words next time.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

BTW i am gonna ask a very stupid question
Can the throne have infinite layered transduality for being apophatic
I am asking this question becuase someone told me this character has infinite layered transduality cause it is apophatic (Always above people can imagine/describe it to be)

 

[Vietthai96]

There is no such a thing as layered transduality

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

There is no such a thing as layered transduality

https://vsbattles.com/threads/so-who-can-kill-anos-now.138571/page-2#post-4890459

https://vsbattles.com/threads/so-who-can-kill-anos-now.138571/page-2#post-4890535

This user told me negative theology can work like that

 

[Vietthai96]

It is because Negative Theology can slap you the old Transdual type 4, which have no end point due to it being Plurality, mean multiple state. I still don't know about the new one though

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

It is because Negative Theology can slap you the old Transdual type 4, which have no end point due to it being Plurality, mean multiple state. I still don't know about the new one though

and? The throne works by negative theology only.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

The Throne does not have sufficient evidence to be treated as apophatic.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

The Throne does not have sufficient evidence to be treated as apophatic.

what is the required evidence to be apophatic?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Evidence that the character/thing can only be hoped to described by negative postulations + Any kind of positive description of it always being insufficient to grasp its nature no matter what, only being a lesser and incorrect form of it instead.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I didn't read the whole thread yet but I asked DT about if transcendence over a type 2 transdual (and type 3) state of being grants more truth states

He said no... so scaling chain granting higher transduality doesn't exist

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Evidence that the character/thing can only be hoped to described by negative postulations + Any kind of positive description of it always being insufficient to grasp its nature no matter what, only being a lesser and incorrect form of it instead.

what is a negative postulation exactly? I know that The throne is above all descriptions in any language at least.

 

[Vietthai96]

I didn't read the whole thread yet but I asked DT about if transcendence over a type 2 transdual (and type 3) state of being grants more truth states

He said no... so scaling chain granting higher transduality doesn't exist

Type 2 is a big no, Type 3 theoretically you can have "layer" or "higher into", since it is Plurality, and the definition of type 3 is at least 5 truths state, so you can have more than 5 truths state. But well, thing is not that easy

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

what is a negative postulation exactly? I know that The throne is above all descriptions in any language at least.

Here is an example;

"This is the information? There's no end to it … Doesn't that mean it's endless? " Ordonis sighed. "There's no end to it …" "Information can't be described with words, and its boundaries can't even be imagined. If you can imagine what the information is, then what you think is definitely not real information, at least not the whole picture. "

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Type 2 is a big no, Type 3 theoretically you can have "layer" or "higher into", since it is Plurality, and the definition of type 3 is at least 5 truths state, so you can have more than 5 truths state. But well, thing is not that easy

Using scaling of "transcending the state of being of X-Character." Won't get you higher into either type is the gist of what I was trying to say

 

[Vietthai96]

Using scaling of "transcending the state of being of X-Character." Won't get you higher into either type is the gist of what I was trying to say

Yeah, you can't exactly scale state of being ability like that

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Here is an example;

Hm, shinza only has this
That place is none other than the Taikyoku Throne. The Nucleus of the Universe, the Center where all phenomena emanated from the existing Law.


Of course that is not the place where one can reach by walking and flying. It is some sort of Hyperdimensional Space, an extreme point that cannot be described by any language.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Hm, shinza only has this
That place is none other than the Taikyoku Throne. The Nucleus of the Universe, the Center where all phenomena emanated from the existing Law.


Of course that is not the place where one can reach by walking and flying. It is some sort of Hyperdimensional Space, an extreme point that cannot be described by any language.

Close, but I don't think that would work.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Close, but I don't think that would work.

Welp. Seriously, the requirements of this wiki is too stupid sometimes. Apophatic is literally just being indescribable, which the throne is. Yet it does not qualify. bruh.
Will some supporting evidence help?

 

[Vietthai96]

could get you a Possibly rating at best, but again i don't know the entire verse to say anything

 

[Sniper670]

Welp. Seriously, the requirements of this wiki is too stupid sometimes. Apophatic is literally just being indescribable, which the throne is. Yet it does not qualify. bruh.
Will some supporting evidence help?

It's not that hard.

To be Apophatic you need a statement of superiority to any description that can be given to it, not just existing in some alien state that cannot be identified

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Welp. Seriously, the requirements of this wiki is too stupid sometimes. Apophatic is literally just being indescribable, which the throne is. Yet it does not qualify. bruh.
Will some supporting evidence help?

Apophatic is not just being indescribable, in fact Ultima specifically said that something being indescribable is nowhere near enough. That's because even the next Higher-Dimension to us are technically indescribable. We can try to describe them, but at best they are guesses.

If someone tries to describe the throne, that description needs to be wrong, or at least only a partial description. If they try to imagine it, their imagination has to imagine something less than it.

If I am 1-A, and I try to imagine something above me, I can do it. I can imagine a being viewing me as nothing more than fiction. What I can't imagine however is something that is beyond all the things I can imagine, all definitions I can give it, etc. It's outside of all logic I can muster, no matter how hard I try, it's inaccessible even in my thoughts and words.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Close, but I don't think that would work.

could get you a Possibly rating at best, but again i don't know the entire verse to say anything

It's not that hard.

To be Apophatic you need a statement of superiority to any description that can be given to it, not just existing in some alien state that cannot be identified

Apophatic is not just being indescribable, in fact Ultima specifically said that something being indescribable is nowhere near enough. That's because even the next Higher-Dimension to us are technically indescribable. We can try to describe them, but at best they are guesses.

If someone tries to describe the throne, that description needs to be wrong, or at least only a partial description. If they try to imagine it, their imagination has to imagine something less than it.

If I am 1-A, and I try to imagine something above me, I can do it. I can imagine a being viewing me as nothing more than fiction. What I can't imagine however is something that is beyond all the things I can imagine, all definitions I can give it, etc. It's outside of all logic I can muster, no matter how hard I try, it's inaccessible even in my thoughts and words.

You are in luck kids, as your favorite Big Sis is here to help.
Aside from Issei scans there are many more especially from avesta, but here is one from KKK.
It is yakou (who is also a god, although with 2 taikyoku he is the weakest ever), he was saying how it is impossible for humans to even imagine or describe the singularity.
Gods > Their own Singularity

魂を同調させ、より深く、より強大な存在へと自らの存在を誘導し、奥へ奥へと自らを運ぶ。 肌から感じる感覚は、ここがまさに無色透明の空白地帯であるということ。踏み入った夜行に対して何一つ、僅かとして影響を及ぼさない無窮の闇。 これはまさに、極限まで透き通った水のようなものだろう。もしくは徹底的に清潔さを保った無菌の箱か。人間の考え付く『無』を体現しながら、同時に如何なる様にも発展する多様性すら有している。 これは、果たして底があるのか？　正気の者ならそう思わずにいられぬ光景。大海原に投げ出された人間が海の広大さに恐怖を覚えるかのように、ここもまた、存在するだけで生半可な意志なら拡散する。 どこまでも続く変哲のない空間。薬にも毒にもならず、ただ在り続ける無色の太極。ひたすら巨大でありながら自己主張を行なわないものは、見る者の恐れを掻き立てるかのようだ。 だからこそ、夜行は思う。ここは神格にのみ許された世界なのだと。 常人の精神構造であればこの透明さに耐え切れない。大陸を沈没させるほどの真水に向かい、砂糖を一粒落としてみるようなものだ。当然、砂糖は溶かされ、水に甘味もつかぬだろう。 だが、それはあくまで凡夫の都合。ある一線を越えた場合、この場はまさに新世界の芽へ転身する。 即ち──太極の保有。現世界、丸ごと塗り潰すほどの波動を得た者に限り、この空にて活動を許され、また新たな理を生み出すことができるのだ。 されど色は一色のみ。神は両雄並び立てぬ。求道者ならばいざ知らず、覇道を持つなら、先住者を滅殺せねば存在できない。 夜行がここへ到達できたのも、太極有する求道であり、同時に覇道にあらぬからという理屈だった。 自らの外殻をかつてないほど強固に編み上げ、さらに深みへ沈み行く。自己の理を保ち続け、やがて、行き着いた先に──

It attunes the soul, directs its own being to a deeper and mightier presence, and carries itself deeper and deeper into the depths. The sensation on the skin is that this is truly a colorless void. It is an impenetrable darkness that has no effect, not even the slightest, on the nocturnal movement that has entered it. This is just like water that is crystal clear to the utmost limit. Or a sterile box that is kept thoroughly clean. It embodies "nothingness" as conceived by human beings, while at the same time possessing diversity that can develop in any way. Does it really have a bottom?　A sight that no sane person could help but think so. Just as a person thrown out into the ocean might feel fear at the vastness of the sea, this place, too, will spread if only half-heartedly willed to exist. A space that continues endlessly, without any trace of anything. A colorless taiji that is neither medicine nor poison, but simply continues to exist. It is so huge, yet it does not assert itself, that it seems to arouse the fear of those who see it. That is why Yagyo thinks. This is a world that is reserved for the divine. The mentality of an ordinary person would not be able to endure this transparency. It is like dropping a grain of sugar into fresh water that could sink a continent. Naturally, the sugar would dissolve and the water would not taste sweet. But that is only for the convenience of ordinary people. If you cross a certain line, this place will turn into the bud of a new world. That is, the possession of taiji. Only those who have obtained enough vibrations to paint the whole of the current world will be allowed to work in this sky and create a new reason. However, there is only one color. God does not allow the two to stand side by side. If you are a seeker, you must kill your predecessor in order to exist. The reason why Yagyo was able to reach this point was because he was a seeker with taiji and not a hegemony at the same time. He weaves his outer shell more tightly than ever before and sinks even deeper into the depths. He continued to maintain his own reason, and eventually arrived at the destination...

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

You are in luck kids, as your favorite Big Sis is here to help.
Aside from Issei scans there are many more especially from avesta, but here is one from KKK.
It is yakou (who is also a god, although with 2 taikyoku he is the weakest ever), he was saying how it is impossible for humans to even imagine or describe the singularity.
Gods > Their own Singularity

ah, saviour hath come

 

[Sniper670]

You are in luck kids, as your favorite Big Sis is here to help.
Aside from Issei scans there are many more especially from avesta, but here is one from KKK.
It is yakou (who is also a god, although with 2 taikyoku he is the weakest ever), he was saying how it is impossible for humans to even imagine or describe the singularity.
Gods > Their own Singularity

I'm not seeing Apophatic Theology here. I can think of something like Swirl of Root.

This is more of being in a weird state that cannot be understood or properly described.

The mentality of an ordinary person would not be able to endure this transparency

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm not seeing Apophatic Theology here. I can think of something like Swirl of Root.

This is more of being in a weird state that cannot be understood or properly described.

It is saying a human in the singularity won't be able to explain or comprehend it, if they tried to they run mad. And besides, this is like the easiest one to find, there are more from avesta that directly ttranslates to apophatic actually, all the others are just supporting evidences, this is one of that

 

[Vietthai96]

Swirl of Root get 1-A not only because of it being indescribable, it have statement to be at the summit of all dimensional theories, and completely independent of it's definitions, all of reality is its extension, and the biggest shit is this: 「　」
But again there could be more context in Masada so.....................

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

It is saying a human in the singularity won't be able to explain or comprehend it, if they tried to they run mad. And besides, this is like the easiest one to find, there are more from avesta that directly ttranslates to apophatic actually, all the others are just supporting evidences, this is one of that

you have those avesta scans?

 

[Sniper670]

It is saying a human in the singularity won't be able to explain or comprehend it, if they tried to they run mad. And besides, this is like the easiest one to find, there are more from avesta that directly ttranslates to apophatic actually, all the others are just supporting evidences, this is one of that

Nah, not Apophatic Theology.

You need proof of superiority over its definitions, not "trying to explain it will make you go mad"

A statement like this

"Nothing can describe it, any description you try to give to it is the product of a human's extreme limited knowledge of what a truly transcendent being is, as this being alone is the Supreme, standing independently of and beyond any and all conceptualization"

If you have supporting evidence, drop it.

@Vietthai96 explained why SoR qualifies so I'll not go into it

 

[Vietthai96]

to be honest, being indescribable, most of the time, is supporting evidences, not the main one

 

[Sniper670]

Yeah. SoR became 1A because it was at the apex of dimensional theories.

It all depends on how the verse interprets it

 

[PrinceofPein]

Nah, not Apophatic Theology.

You need proof of superiority over its definitions, not "trying to explain it will make you go mad"

A statement like this

If you have supporting evidence, drop it.

@Vietthai96 explained why SoR qualifies so I'll not go into it

Did you bother to read what i typed?
Never mind you did not

Swirl of Root get 1-A not only because of it being indescribable, it have statement to be at the summit of all dimensional theories, and completely independent of it's definitions, all of reality is its extension, and the biggest shit is this: 「　」
But again there could be more context in Masada so.....................

Yes there are many things talking about the throne and all of reality is its extension to begin with.
Anyway when the time comes you would see it

you have those avesta scans?

Not right now

 

[Vietthai96]

Yes there are many things talking about the throne and all of reality is its extension to begin with.
Anyway when the time comes you would see it

Alright

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Not right now

Do you have any vague idea of what did the avesta scan say? That the throne/singularity is above any description given to it?

 

[Sniper670]

Did you bother to read what i typed?
Never mind you did not

LOL. Okay

But what you sent won't get you anything

But you said there is supporting evidence, so good luck with that

 

[PrinceofPein]

Do you have any vague idea of what did the avesta scan say? That the throne/singularity is above any description given to it?

Pretty much, it cannot be described

LOL. Okay

But what you sent won't get you anything

But you said there is supporting evidence, so good luck with that

This is exactly why I said you did not read what I said. Try reading this again

It is saying a human in the singularity won't be able to explain or comprehend it, if they tried to they run mad. And besides, this is like the easiest one to find, there are more from avesta that directly ttranslates to apophatic actually, all the others are just supporting evidences, this is one of that

This is a supporting evidence not the other way around