Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
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"Promise to me now, you won't look away!"
King of the Dead, Ainz Ooal Gown!
Koishi Komeiji vs Ainz Ooal Gow
Standard Battle Assumptions
Speed is Equal
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Can the Skeleton Remember who he's fighting?
- Thread starter Udlmaster
- Start date
"Promise to me now, you won't look away!"
King of the Dead, Ainz Ooal Gown!
Koishi Komeiji vs Ainz Ooal Gow
Standard Battle Assumptions
Speed is Equal
- 152
- 8
I Vote for Koishi
She would immediately start with Danmaku, so Ainz would be definitely be hit. He would most likely panic in what he would consider an ambush, considering himself to be at a disadvantage because a spellcaster's main strength comes from being prepared. Ainz would then react by chucking his own spells at her, probably leading with [Grasp Heart], but i don't think any of his spells can bypass Koishi's Low-Godly regen.
Then, there's the matter of their mind resistances. Koishi can manipulate the subconscious of those who resisted the mind manip of the fake moon. But Undead in Overlord are said to be "immune to all mind manipulating effects" unless a World Item is used. So the question boils down to if Koishi's mind manipulation can be considered as on the same level as a World Item.
Ultimately, I would say only a handful of Ainz's 718 spells could stop Koishi's Low-Godly regen.
She would immediately start with Danmaku, so Ainz would be definitely be hit. He would most likely panic in what he would consider an ambush, considering himself to be at a disadvantage because a spellcaster's main strength comes from being prepared. Ainz would then react by chucking his own spells at her, probably leading with [Grasp Heart], but i don't think any of his spells can bypass Koishi's Low-Godly regen.
Then, there's the matter of their mind resistances. Koishi can manipulate the subconscious of those who resisted the mind manip of the fake moon. But Undead in Overlord are said to be "immune to all mind manipulating effects" unless a World Item is used. So the question boils down to if Koishi's mind manipulation can be considered as on the same level as a World Item.
Ultimately, I would say only a handful of Ainz's 718 spells could stop Koishi's Low-Godly regen.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
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- Thread starter
- #5
Possibly? The Mind Affecting power of the Moon was a Wide-Spread AOE (The Best Mind Hax) instant insanity or Death effect which is very strong.
As for her abilities, Ainz wouldn't actually be able to see her inless she wants to be seen. So, she could just spam her Danmaku abilities as well.
As for her abilities, Ainz wouldn't actually be able to see her inless she wants to be seen. So, she could just spam her Danmaku abilities as well.
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With speed equalised, Danmaku would fail simply due to Ainz being able to time stop. With Silent Casting, Ainz can simply stop time just by thought alone. I don't need think one can even surprise attack him when he can just stop time just by thinking about it.
As for her Mind Manipulation, we measure that hax based on the volumes of minds it has affected at once (amongst other things). So how many individuals has Keishi affected with her mind-hax at once?
As for her Low-Godly Regenerationn, how does she regenerate exactly? Does she just regenerate in the same position her body was previously in, or can she just reform her body at a location of her choosing akin to teleportation (like, if her body got destroyed at point A and gets BFRed to point B, does she reform her body at the location she was BFRed in, or does she reform at the place she was originally in)?
Also, if her Low-Godly Regenerationn is anything like resurrection, then Ainz's True Death might be able to prevent her from coming back (where, in Overlord, resurrection works by restoring the body and soul of the dead target. From what I can recall, lower tier resurrection magic is capable of restoring even the destroyed soul of the dead target... Which Ainz's True Death was able to nullify). What even is a disembodied "mind" in Touhou? Because it might not mean the conventional meaning of "mind" that we all know, since Koishi evidently lacks that.
As for her Mind Manipulation, we measure that hax based on the volumes of minds it has affected at once (amongst other things). So how many individuals has Keishi affected with her mind-hax at once?
As for her Low-Godly Regenerationn, how does she regenerate exactly? Does she just regenerate in the same position her body was previously in, or can she just reform her body at a location of her choosing akin to teleportation (like, if her body got destroyed at point A and gets BFRed to point B, does she reform her body at the location she was BFRed in, or does she reform at the place she was originally in)?
Also, if her Low-Godly Regenerationn is anything like resurrection, then Ainz's True Death might be able to prevent her from coming back (where, in Overlord, resurrection works by restoring the body and soul of the dead target. From what I can recall, lower tier resurrection magic is capable of restoring even the destroyed soul of the dead target... Which Ainz's True Death was able to nullify). What even is a disembodied "mind" in Touhou? Because it might not mean the conventional meaning of "mind" that we all know, since Koishi evidently lacks that.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
- 2,064
- Thread starter
- #7
>With speed equalised, Danmaku would fail simply due to Ainz being able to time stop. With Silent Casting, Ainz can simply stop time just by thought alone. I don't need think one can even surprise attack him when he can just stop time just by thinking about it.
Well, not really, he'd have no idea who actually even attacked him, he has no prior knowledge of Koishi, and yes, you can catch someone by suprise who can cast Time Stop Quickly.
>As for her Mind Manipulation, we measure that hax based on the volumes of minds it has affected at once (amongst other things). So how many individuals has Keishi affected with her mind-hax at once?
Hundreds casually, she's gone into the Human Villages of Gensokyo and not been found out.
She also bypasses the Resistance that the Cast have from Mind Hax, this resistance to it was shown by the True Moon, which was a (Gensokyo?) wide Instant Insanity or Death Mind Hax for anyone who looked at it.
>As for her Low-Godly Regenerationn, how does she regenerate exactly? Does she just regenerate in the same position her body was previously in, or can she just reform her body at a location of her choosing akin to teleportation (like, if her body got destroyed at point A and gets BFRed to point B, does she reform her body at the location she was BFRed in, or does she reform at the place she was originally in)?
As the Mind, Body and Soul for Yokai are basically all the same, they regenerate from their incorporeal Minds. Can she regenerate from anywhere, possibly.
That's if Ainz' remembers her after he looks away or blinks.
>Also, if her Low-Godly Regenerationn is anything like resurrection, then Ainz's True Deathmight be able to prevent her from coming back (where, in Overlord, resurrection works by restoring the body and soul of the dead target. From what I can recall, lower tier resurrection magic is capable of restoring even the destroyed soul of the dead target. And Ainz's True Death can nullify that type of resurrection).
It's not like ressurection.
Well, not really, he'd have no idea who actually even attacked him, he has no prior knowledge of Koishi, and yes, you can catch someone by suprise who can cast Time Stop Quickly.
>As for her Mind Manipulation, we measure that hax based on the volumes of minds it has affected at once (amongst other things). So how many individuals has Keishi affected with her mind-hax at once?
Hundreds casually, she's gone into the Human Villages of Gensokyo and not been found out.
She also bypasses the Resistance that the Cast have from Mind Hax, this resistance to it was shown by the True Moon, which was a (Gensokyo?) wide Instant Insanity or Death Mind Hax for anyone who looked at it.
>As for her Low-Godly Regenerationn, how does she regenerate exactly? Does she just regenerate in the same position her body was previously in, or can she just reform her body at a location of her choosing akin to teleportation (like, if her body got destroyed at point A and gets BFRed to point B, does she reform her body at the location she was BFRed in, or does she reform at the place she was originally in)?
As the Mind, Body and Soul for Yokai are basically all the same, they regenerate from their incorporeal Minds. Can she regenerate from anywhere, possibly.
That's if Ainz' remembers her after he looks away or blinks.
>Also, if her Low-Godly Regenerationn is anything like resurrection, then Ainz's True Deathmight be able to prevent her from coming back (where, in Overlord, resurrection works by restoring the body and soul of the dead target. From what I can recall, lower tier resurrection magic is capable of restoring even the destroyed soul of the dead target. And Ainz's True Death can nullify that type of resurrection).
It's not like ressurection.
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So, you've put in a character with great mind-hax, nonexistent physiology, Low-Godly Regenerationn (which seems to operate through restoring their body from something that is not of the soul or mind, and can work by simply restoring an another body from scratch), and spammable danmaku against a character who has no counter to either of those because they can't even remember the opponent they've just fought...
I'm pretty sure you've just created a stomp thread. And like how stomp threads go, they would not be added to each characters profiles.
I'm pretty sure you've just created a stomp thread. And like how stomp threads go, they would not be added to each characters profiles.
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That... Still doesn't matter when the opponent she's fighting against couldn't even remember if they've just fought her or not (which she can choose on when they should or should not remember her). And since I don't know Koishi's exact AP, I'll just assume she has enough to damage Ainz, which would turn this match into a stomp (thus, cannot be added to each of the character's profile).
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
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- Thread starter
- #11
Actually, no, it's not a stomp match as Ainz can do something, it's just unlike to happen.
"A Stomp thread is when one character is immediately able to win against another, whether it is via battlefield removal, incapacitation or killing, with the opponent having no chance to retort with their own abilities or statistics."
Ainz can retort, but it's going to be hard for him.
"A Stomp thread is when one character is immediately able to win against another, whether it is via battlefield removal, incapacitation or killing, with the opponent having no chance to retort with their own abilities or statistics."
Ainz can retort, but it's going to be hard for him.
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A stomp thread counts if there's literally no win condition for a character. In this case, Ainz can't even remember the opponent he just fought, has to deal with his enemy's mindhax, as well as having to deal with Low-Godly Regenerationn. All of which Ainz has no win condition against.
A stomp thread isn't really determined by whether or not a character can fight back, it's determined by whether or not they can actually gain victory. If there's literally no way for that character to win, then it's a stomp.
In this case, this is a stomp thread, thus should be closed.
A stomp thread isn't really determined by whether or not a character can fight back, it's determined by whether or not they can actually gain victory. If there's literally no way for that character to win, then it's a stomp.
In this case, this is a stomp thread, thus should be closed.
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As DeathNoodles said, this is clearly a stomp thread.
You are pitting Ainz against someone who might as well passively make herself completely invisible and undetectable(Can make people forget about her presence or even her existence if they've never seen her before, and people can't see her unless she wants to be see because of this).
Ainz is not going to be able to do anything at all if she can just manipulate him into thinking hes not even fighting, or has never fought her and make herself completely unnoticeable. She kills him without him even realizing whats happening every single time.
Not to mention you just said
"As for her abilities, Ainz wouldn't actually be able to see her unless she wants to be seen. So, she could just spam her Danmaku abilities as well.".......
Really?
This is 100% a stomp thread and should be closed.
You are pitting Ainz against someone who might as well passively make herself completely invisible and undetectable(Can make people forget about her presence or even her existence if they've never seen her before, and people can't see her unless she wants to be see because of this).
Ainz is not going to be able to do anything at all if she can just manipulate him into thinking hes not even fighting, or has never fought her and make herself completely unnoticeable. She kills him without him even realizing whats happening every single time.
Not to mention you just said
"As for her abilities, Ainz wouldn't actually be able to see her unless she wants to be seen. So, she could just spam her Danmaku abilities as well.".......
Really?
This is 100% a stomp thread and should be closed.
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If what Im reading in her profile is correct Timestop nulls 100% of her invisiblity and memory stuff. Ainz wont need to remember her when she is literally frozen in time, just cast his killing Death hax and once time resumes and he forgets about her, she is death.
Also, Ainz can and will make himself invisible and impossible to detect by conventional means with Perfect Unknownable as well as summon Undead to aid him.
Ainz can fight.
Also, Ainz can and will make himself invisible and impossible to detect by conventional means with Perfect Unknownable as well as summon Undead to aid him.
Ainz can fight.
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I heard Ainz starts with Timestop.
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That would depend on how her ability works is something that she needs to activate, will she have it activated at the start? Is it a passive type?PaChi2 said:
Because if this-
(Can make people forget about her presence or even her existence if they've never seen her before, and people can't see her unless she wants to be see because of this).
ability works passively....
We need however this mind hax works explained. If this works only when activated then yea, its not a stomp.
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Yes its an assumption of what Ainz would do first when forced to fight without any prior knowledge on his opponent and therfore maybe be a powerful opponent. Based on his description of how pvp in Yggdrassil worked and his generally paranoid demeanour, which I agree with.DragonEmperor23 said:
Although some have used his feat when against stronoff as proof but I wouldn't neccessarily use that though as he did it for different reasons.
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So she has at at the start already then, then how do you think Ainz is going to fight against that without any opportunity to prevent her mind hax in the first place?Udlmaster said:
So.
Lets say the mind hax isn't totally passive that means timestop is going to trump her.
Totally passive mind hax means she just has it on already at the start preventing any sort of counter in the first place.
Either way this match seems like a mismatch.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,868
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- #21
Well, Koishi is a bit mad and can sometimes come in and out of her own "invisibility".
The Memory wipe thing is totally passive to her body, whenever she leaves something's sight, they forget about her, the only way to counter this was with the Mask of Joy which allowed people to remember her, but the Mask ran out of "Joy".
Anyway, Koishi is pretty insane and goes in and out of her "non-existence", if you see 15.5's Pre-Battle actions.
The Memory wipe thing is totally passive to her body, whenever she leaves something's sight, they forget about her, the only way to counter this was with the Mask of Joy which allowed people to remember her, but the Mask ran out of "Joy".
Anyway, Koishi is pretty insane and goes in and out of her "non-existence", if you see 15.5's Pre-Battle actions.
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Ok I understand this ability now more or less thank you, this ability was confusing.Udlmaster said:
If she is invisible at the start (which she is, its a passive) that means Ainz won't even be able to remember she even exists. Meaning he cannot fight her, quite literally. Anyways, this match like I said either way is a mismatch in my opinion.
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There's also Koishi's Low-Godly Regenerationn that can apparently work through restoring the body through a consciousness different to that of the mind or soul (so it isn't mental or spiritual based, which I don't think Ainz can affect). I don't think most of Ainz's death hax would even put her down for long here, making this a stomp thread. There's also passive mind-hax to consider, which doesn't help prove that this thread isn't a stomp here.
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It seems that the only way for Ainz to win is if: Step 1. He immediately timestops as a reaction for suddenly being put in Central Park. Step 2. Koishi's passive memory-erasure (somehow?) doesn't work in the timestop and Ainz can perceive her. Step 3. Ainz goes for the insta-kill.
I can't really see Ainz reacting this way, I mostly remember him being panicky when faced with something unexpected. Granted, I only watched the anime.
I can't really see Ainz reacting this way, I mostly remember him being panicky when faced with something unexpected. Granted, I only watched the anime.
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Most of the other users from other VS threads involving Ainz (particularly debating against Ainz) doesn't follow the same logic as you, where those with Low-High regen or over would be able to resist instant death hax (probably due to one being able to pseudo-revive themselves due to how high tier Regenerationn works in general). Then there's the fact that Koishi's own Low-Godly Regenerationn allows her to simply recreate an another body from scratch, making her unaffected due to simply just forming an another body as the original one gets destroyed (which is basically what you've just implied).Udlmaster said:
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I don't see how this is a stomp. Both have solid chances of winning with it edging on Koishi.
Koishi FRA.
Koishi FRA.
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It's a stomp because of Koishi's Low-Godly regen (which Ainz can't counter due to its nature), mindhax, and passively being able to make the opponent forget whenever she wants to (by turning invisible).CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
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I don't know, how about Koishi's Low-Godly Regenerationn via her incorporeal "mind" (which she can use to recreate an another body from scratch apparently)?
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It's dependent on a case by case basis.
From what I see here thought, it's not as if Koishi can be decisive on her victory either. I mean at best you can even go for a tie.
From what I see here thought, it's not as if Koishi can be decisive on her victory either. I mean at best you can even go for a tie.
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Koishi's low-godly regen can be beat by spiritual-based attacks. Her incorporeal "mind" is basically meant to be her spirit. This is true for most other youkais in touhou.
Does Ainz always lead with Time-stop? if he doesn't he WILL be hit by those lasers. They're either light-speed or MFTL+, since they can keep up with other 2hus. And attack speed for projectiles isn't equalized.
Whatever Ainz decides to do, his chance of picking the correct set of spells to cast is very low. And him being teleported back into modern-day Earth should mess with his mentality a bit.
Does Ainz always lead with Time-stop? if he doesn't he WILL be hit by those lasers. They're either light-speed or MFTL+, since they can keep up with other 2hus. And attack speed for projectiles isn't equalized.
Whatever Ainz decides to do, his chance of picking the correct set of spells to cast is very low. And him being teleported back into modern-day Earth should mess with his mentality a bit.
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