Cal's Dragon Ball Super XXXXXX: 60 is here and 2 mins are left

[AKM sama]

I got the best mental image of Akira Toriyama standing on the tallest tower in Tokyo, pissed out of his mind, and just yelling at the top of his lounges "I AM THE HOPE OF THE UNIVERSE"

Likewise lol, that's why I said so.

 

[AKM sama]

What? You like Superman? I thought you couldn't like Goku and Superman at the same time

There's actually a reason for that. My relation with Supes is almost as old as it is with Goku. Back then I was little and didn't even know about this whole Goku v Superman fiasco.

I grew up a little and started admiring how deep Supes character was with the "responsibilities" and "burdens" and other goody-goody stuff. At the same time I liked how cool and badass Goku was.

You probably wouldn't believe but I wasn't introduced to this Goku v Superman fiasco till late 2016. And by that time I was old enough and mature so it didn't change anything lol.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qONc2-HhfRw&t=0m46sGoku does have morality and cares for innocent people. It just takes a major backseat to his lust for battle. That's his character in the original Japanese. This scene summarizes it perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmfyp_4JpUE

Then this is Funimation Goku. He's the exact opposite. His lust for battle takes a major backseat to his care for the innocent. He also takes upon a self-righteous symbol of justice persona that the original Goku is too simple and shallow to really care all that much about.

What do you think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQWVq4G040&t=2s

 

[Ovrhide]

The true battle. El hermano vs jiren

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2k_5ibXNGEI

Great editing too

 

[Pannaliciour]

Wired: There's actually "poison" inside?

Toriyama: Right. There's how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I've always been dissatisfied with the "righteous hero"-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn't quite get them to grasp the elements of "poison" that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

Wired: Perhaps that's because it's animation aimed at children, after all?

Toriyama: Well, that might be some of it, too.

Super did potray the Toriyama-Goku perfectly

Btw loll even Toriyama himself (like the fans) forgot its a kids show

 

[Ryukama]

What do you think of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQWVq4G040&t=2s

I can't see it for now. Can you give me the jist of the person's overall point?

Mine is that Goku does have moral and righteous motives. Just that his motives of wanting to fight and get stronger supercede those.

 

[ByAsura]

He has his priorities in order, such as saving his friends and family rather than just constant fighting, such as saving Gohan and Krillin from Recoome, rather than just fighting, and not fighting Frieza, because he's too strong, and Goku doesn't want to ruin his plans for the other characters.

The person also makes the point that his fight with Frieza was to avenge Krillin, rather than be selfish, and also goku wasn't the same as a Super Saiyan.

They also show that Goku wants to beat Piccolo Jr without killing him, rather than leave him as a rival, he does it out of concern for Kami's life (that i have problems about, as he fired the Super Kamehameha because he though he could resurrect him).

They show scans and quotes of all this, so they back up what they say.

 

[Ryukama]

Of course Goku isn't always just "fight fight fight" and has done genuinely good things out of the goodness of his heart. However he also puts his own selfish desires above the wellbeing of others at times. He even straight up admits that he's more focussed on fighting and being strong than saving the world in Super. And that saving the world has been more of a side effect of his overall martial arts goal, which is also what Toriyama said was the direction that he took with the character.

That's what's great about Goku's character. He's not entirely good or bad. He has elements of both within him. Just like real life people.

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

I can't see it for now. Can you give me the jist of the person's overall point?

Mine is that Goku does have moral and righteous motives. Just that his motives of wanting to fight and get stronger supercede those.

The creator of the video cites numerous examples (in the manga) of Goku prioritising the well-being of others, and things greater than himself, over his love for fighting and that his love for fighting is, in fact, what takes a backseat. Her overall argument is that the fandom misinterprets Goku as a character (at least outside of Super).

Outside of Super, I would agree. It would help if you watched the video though. I think Super has indeed made Goku more selfish than he's ever been in Z and classic Dragon Ball.

The youtuber's name is Kairi Yajuu Analysis. Here's two other videos I think are worth watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAfWsJprjAM&t=381s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oamttZNVoOQ

 

[Ryukama]

@Melee Thanks for the info. Like I said, there is definitely some depth and a grey area regarding Goku's character. Where he has both his moments of selflessness and selfishness. I love that about him.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Am I the only one who misses "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan"? It sounds way more godly and formal than "Super Saiyan Blue"

 

[MeleeniumRXJ]

@Melee Thanks for the info. Like I said, there is definitely some depth and a grey area regarding Goku's character. Where he has both his moments of selflessness and selfishness. I love that about him.

You should really watch those videos though. The video author argues that many of the moments people consider selfish moments for Goku, actually aren't.

 

[Ryukama]

@SSGJ I think the red haired form should've been called "Saiyan God" and blue haired form be "Super Saiyan God"

@Melee If I have the time and don't forget by then lol. No promises ovo

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

@Ryukama Agreed. Especially since SSJG resembles Base Goku and SSJGSSJ resembles Super Saiyan.

 

[Ryukama]

https://twitter.com/shirea0131/status/970136829209976837

https://twitter.com/DBmojamojak/status/970657089080053761

Some ridiculously amazing artwork of MUI Goku.

 

[TurboTriangle601]

"DBmojamojak"

oh bojack made a twitter account

 

[JackJoyce]

Dafuq?

 

[AKM sama]

@SSGJ I think the red haired form should've been called "Saiyan God" and blue haired form be "Super Saiyan God"

Me too.

And SSGSS Evolution could have been Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan ovo

 

[AKM sama]

Which God form had more hype and impact?

Super Saiyan God (2013) or Ultra Instinct (2017-18)

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

UI for me but SSG was the stepping stone for it to be possible

 

[Golden_Void]

Ultra instinct isn't a god form o.o

On another note, who wants to watch me stream the new xenoverse DLC? :^)

 

[DMUA]

I can.

 

[AKM sama]

What's the name of your youtube channel?

 

[DMUA]

Lord Rice

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

Beyond the three of you, @Super Saiyan God Julian, @AKM sama, and @Ryukama...


I think you guys are the only ones who prefer the ungainly mouthful of "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan". It's...dumb, and redundant. There's nothing really "formal" about it.


Maybe they should have called it "Super Saiyan God Blue" as sort of a pun on Super Saiyan 2. That seems more in line with Toriyama's writing style.

 

[Aceraspire]

If Gohan had UI he would have finally learned how to dodgeeeeee´╗┐

 

[Aceraspire]

When you think about it?what if now Goku can use IT without thinking,like everything else? :O

 

[ZERO7772]

I like how the key to achieving UI is to shut down down your mind and completely stop thinking like an idiot lol

The concept of UI is very simple if you think about, you just rely on your body reflex instead of having to take decision every time which can slow you down somewhat, example like these can be found in real life sport with talented players who train enough and plays a lot, your play will eventually become collection of reflex due to you repeating the same thing over and over, of course it's not as ridiculous as DBS

Also The ZONE in Kuroko no Basket is the same thing as UI

It's not NLF hax like some people made it seems like

 

[Ovrhide]

Been going around a lot lately on forums, and it amuses me how people think that UI is so unique that it allows goku to compete with anyone on other franchises. Do they not know that what UI represents in dragon ball, has been done before in other series? Attacking and dodging without the use of someone's mind has been done before at least a couple of times.

 

[Overlord775]

it would be funny if they made goten gain MUI just by sparring with MUI goku for a few minutes

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Been going around a lot lately on forums, and it amuses me how people think that UI is so unique that it allows goku to compete with anyone on other franchises. Do they not know that what UI represents in dragon ball, has been done before in other series? Attacking and dodging without the use of someone's mind has been done before at least a couple of times.

And when you think that other series have Cosmic Abstracts and Reality and Magic Users that make Multiverses their plaything, you see how DB can not compete... Its the same wank with every new final form really...

 

[Pannaliciour]

Been going around a lot lately on forums, and it amuses me how people think that UI is so unique that it allows goku to compete with anyone on other franchises. Do they not know that what UI represents in dragon ball, has been done before in other series? Attacking and dodging without the use of someone's mind has been done before at least a couple of times.

People really think that "not thinking" can give you that kind of speed advantage? We have to wait and see. Till now UI is (clean) unhittable. The rest is speculation.

In Beerus case (manga) he dodge 11 GoD's at the same time. 1 vs 1 (without UI) he had trouble but 1 vs 11 (with UI) he can dodge everything? Thats a speed advantage thats beyond the difference of thinking and not thinking. How can you not see that.

If what you say is true then UI is just a power up (in dbz a power up is usually a speed advantage) if you fast enough you can also dodge everything. I think thats not how UI work or should work.

 

[Ovrhide]

UI is not unhitable. Put MUI goku against someone who moves dozens of times faster than him... don't expect people to agree with you goku dodges. UI has brought the biggest NLF in dragon ball that I've ever seen

 

[Ovrhide]

And when you think that other series have Cosmic Abstracts and Reality and Magic Users that make Multiverses their plaything, you see how DB can not compete... Its the same wank with every new final form really...

I just hope the wank goes away soon. It's hard debating people like that.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Ultra Instinct is the ability to move without thinking, like Luffy did on the Skypea Arc ( He could only dodge tho)

Are you going to say that Luffy> Majority of Dragon Ball cast because he is able to move without thinking?

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

...At this rate, how is it not obvious that Ultra Instinct is more than just a state of mind? Did the color-changing hair not clue you guys in again? >_>

 

[CursedGentleman]

...At this rate, how is it not obvious that Ultra Instinct is more than just a state of mind? Did the color-changing hair not clue you guys in again? >_>

This is because is Goku, Whis have ultra instinct and we have yet to see a transformation out of it.

Beerus and the others GoD have ultra instinct and they have yet to have the same thing that Goku has.

Explanation: Goku is the protagonist.

That's why he can change his color hair with the new technique, because the Ultra Instinct that was somehow triggered by the Spirit Bomb made of the Ki of his group transformed him that way.

 

[Golden_Void]

Goku gets a transformation with UI instead of learning the technique alone.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

People are both wanking AND downplaying what Goku's Ultra Instinct does.

The basic concept is nothing special at all. It does not mean Goku will dodge EVERY attack. That SHOULD be common sense. However, Ultra Instinct has clearly demonstrated that it's effectiveness is beyond the normal move and fight without thinking. It's a massive power boost as well. It is still pretty potent. Just not as OP as people say. But it's not a weak as people are trying to imply.

 

[Stryk3r1337]

Beerus and the others GoD have ultra instinct and they have yet to have the same thing that Goku has.

Wrong. Only Beerus is implied (shown to in the manga) to have some level of ultra instinct. He did not master it and certainly did not have it as the same level of even UI Omen. None of the other GoDs have Ultra Instinct. Why did you assume they did when only Beerus was said to have some form of it?