Cal's Base Sonic CRT

[The_real_cal_howard]

It really doesn't need to be stated in game tbh when cutscenes and gameplay indicate he ain't that tough.SA Sonic beat him with next to no problem.

Yeah and gameplay can also have Link fodderize Ganon. Gameplay isn't necessarily canon.

 

[Wokistan]

"We never get an explanation for how the Officio Assassinorum is tier 8"

They're explicitly augmented but okay

Anyways I only really commented because of that, but I guess now that I'm here I'll pick a side at some point or another. Neutral for now.

 

[Theuser789]

Chaos 0 can still be able to fight people who can fight his stronger forms. Many people on this wiki downscale from their stronger forms. Chaos 0 isn't fodder, but he isn't tier 6 either.

This as well, people like Cream downscale from him, not that they are his level or stronger

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

They straight up said that Tails lost it Cal, plus that same Chaos gets one shoot by Classic Sonic

"Tails lost it" isn't the same thing as saying Tails has PTSD. Tails being scared is him losing it, not him having a mental breakdown (though given he thinks Sonic's dead, that's not impossible).

Shadow also one-shots Shadow.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

And Chaos already being on that level doesn't make sense. Chaos 0 would scale to being equal to the main cast, who by your account gets destroyed by them no problem.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Also, Chaos Emeralds are far too inconsistent to be taken seriously, and shouldn't be part of the power scaling chain for the feat of one Emeralds. Chaos Emeralds are 5-B based on one feat, when two or more struggled to do feats far less then that constantly. When a certain other verse has many of a "Common power source" and many of that same having many tier 4 feats, and yet people try to pass the hundreds of feats equals outlier but this feat isn't an outlier based on 1 feat followed by a whole bunch of backwards scaling.

"One feat."

Incorrect, there's two feats, the continent moving in Unleashed and the planet splitting in SA3.

Also don't try to bring up the Space Colony Ark doing a 6-B feat as an example of an inconsistency when that was a warning shot.

 

[Theuser789]

So we shouldn't use Forces for scaling because of that then, since you are implying Tails is weaker than classic, plus you yourself are saying that's not impossible, he was scared because he lost it, simple

 

[Theuser789]

And Chaos already being on that level doesn't make sense. Chaos 0 would scale to being equal to the main cast, who by your account gets destroyed by them no problem.

Just explaining that he being stronger or weaker doesn't change the scaling

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

I agree with this, I was going to address the over the place circular scaling in more detail eventually, but this is a decent start.

And I was going to debunk you, but we all can't have whatever we want now can we?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@ShadowWarrior1999, and there's 0 proof that one Chaos Emerald spit the planet. The very plot even points to them having all 7.

 

[Js250476]

I mean I'm sure it's unanimous that Forces is badly written.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Why are we even discussing Tails being afraid of Chaos 0 in Forces when he defeated Chaos 4? That was just bad writing.

 

[The_Smashor]

Anyways, I'd like to not be a part of this CRT. Do you guys think you got this?

 

[Theuser789]

@ShadowWarrior1999, and there's 0 proof that one Chaos Emerald spit the planet. The very plot even points to them having all 7.

This was already debunked in the original 5-B thread

 

[Theuser789]

Anyways, I'd like to not be a part of this CRT. Do you guys think you got this?

Any help is good I guess

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

I also want to mention that Cal deleted this comment. Like wow lol

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@ShadowWarrior1999, and there's 0 proof that one Chaos Emerald spit the planet. The very plot even points to them having all 7.

The cutscene only shows one, it's on you to provide evidence that all 7 were used.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

I'll be back to fill in my REAL input

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Why are we even discussing Tails being afraid of Chaos 0 in Forces when he defeated Chaos 4? That was just bad writing.

Bad writing doesn't mean it didn't happen. All of Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou is bad writing. It's still Tier 0.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Chaos 0 is a Chao mutated by the Master Emerald, but is inferior to the normal Chao Cheese, which makes no sense. Chaos 0 is also a match for both, Knuckles & Silver in Sonic Forces: Stress Test, but Knuckles could beat Chaos 2 no problem.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Stopping by to give my usual spiel about toxicity being bad, and about how we should all make sure to not go for each other's throats. If a debate is gonna happen at all, make sure it's civil at the very least. We aren't gonna get anywhere by running around in circles and being aggressive. Not saying anybody has been, just saying that people easily can.

Everybody, keep their heads! UwU

 

[The_Smashor]

@Cal

I never said I'm okay with wisp stuff. In fact, I'm against it. By the way, thanks for reminding me to bump that thread.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Chaos 0 is a Chao boosted by the Master Emerald, but is inferior to the normal Chao Cheese. Chaos 0 is also a match for both, Knuckles & Silver in Sonic Forces: Stress Test.

Fixed

 

[Theuser789]

Bad writing doesn't mean it didn't happen. All of Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou is bad writing. It's still Tier 0.

Yeah, but that's not really a relevant point unless you want Classic>Tails

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@ShadowWarrior1999 Because looking at the plot, it says Eggman used 'The Chaos Emeralds" into the Death Egg to split the planet. Just because we only see him place one doesn't mean he never placed the other 6 off screen. Also, that's literally the plot of ever other Classic Sonic Game is Eggman gathering all 7 Chaos Emeralds so he could do that in the first place. And Sonic needing all 7 to reverse the effect is further back up; otherwise, there's no reason to not assume one Chaos Emerald could have easily reversed it if it was really caused by one. Chaos Control has always treated the reversing abilities equal to their destructive abilities.

@VioletVoid screenshotting removed comments or unedited comments and posting them publicly isn't a good idea.

 

[The_Smashor]

@DDM

We can't assume he did, either.

 

[Theuser789]

Chaos 0 is a Chao mutated by the Master Emerald, but is inferior to the normal Chao Cheese, which makes no sense. Chaos 0 is also a match for both, Knuckles & Silver in Sonic Forces: Stress Test, but Knuckles could beat Chaos 2 no problem.

Cheese backscales from Chaos, not the contrary, and I literaly already debunked this on my original comment

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bad writing doesn't mean it didn't happen. All of Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou is bad writing. It's still Tier 0.

Yeah, but that's not really a relevant point unless you want Classic>Tails

The point being that Sonic Team doesn't give a darn about consistent powerscaling and they do what they please. I mean, I can't necessarily blame them, as gameplay comes first, but still.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Bad writing doesn't mean it didn't happen. All of Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou is bad writing. It's still Tier 0.

What I meant is that it's PIS resulting from bad writing. Chaos in that same scene also gets bopped on the head by Classic Sonic and is instantly defeated.

 

[Theuser789]

Bad writing doesn't mean it didn't happen. All of Ichiban Ushiro no Daimaou is bad writing. It's still Tier 0.

Yeah, but that's not really a relevant point unless you want Classic>Tails

The point being that Sonic Team doesn't give a darn about consistent powerscaling and they do what they please. I mean, I can't necessarily blame them, as gameplay comes first, but still.

And why is that relevant to my point when I already explained why Chaos's power doesn't matter to the scaling?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Can we also please stop using long quotes? Especially back and forth?

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

@VioletVoid screenshotting removed comments or unedited comments and posting them publicly isn't a good idea.

So you finally going to stop dodging me?

 

[The_Smashor]

For once I agree with DDM.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Shadow also kicks Shadow in the neck, who's supposedly his equal, and one-shots him. And Chaos 0 also holds his own against Sonic during when they jumped him, and Knuckles and Silver during that one side story.

 

[The_Smashor]

Shadow kicks a fake Shadow, unless your talking about Silver.

 

[Theuser789]

Shadow also kicks Shadow in the neck, who's supposedly his equal, and one-shots him. And Chaos 0 also holds his own against Sonic during when they jumped him, and Knuckles and Silver during that one side story.

And that's not relevant at all due to reasons already explained

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@DarkDragonMedeus Show a scan proving that Eggman had all the Emeralds with him. Also the planet splitting was reversed by the Master Emerald.

The Sonic Advance series aren't Classic Sonic games, it's Adventure Era.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

ƒì┐ ƒì┐ ƒì┐

 

[ElixirBlue]

Am I missing something? I thought Chaos 4 was taken down by a team effort of Sonic, Tails and Knuckles, after Knuckles got tricked again by Eggman and thought Sonic was collecting pieces of the Master Emeralds.

Sonic and Knuckles fought, and Sonic lost 2 of his Chaos Emeralds. Eggman quickly collected them, and Chaos 4 appeared.

In Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles's story line, they all fought Chaos 4. They had to have teamed up. It wouldn't make sense otherwise that only one person fought Chaos 4 while the other two watched.

 

[Theuser789]

Yeah, but how many people fought Chaos 4 doesn't matter since

1 They still would scale

2 Knuckles beat Chaos 2 in a 1-1

Plus Shadow giving up his emerald because he could use it's full power

In fact that helps my argument because it makes Chaos 4 stronger than the cast debunking the Cream and Cheese are stronger than Chaos argument