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Cal's Base Sonic CRT

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The Biosphere/Geothermal energy =/= Gravitational Binding Energy. Geothermal energy is still only High 6-A. And that's just what's stored in the extractor, not how much Eggrobo can harness in every punch. And actually, Ifrit was stated to have gotten weaker based on what Weekly Battles mentioned on another thread. Also, I'm well aware of the variable tiers via being hearts of the users, but the Chaos Emeralds themselves do have limits; they're not Tier 0 like what's literally being implied by the word "Limitless". And even that, that would only qualify for Infinite stamina, but High 3-A individually. And they were depleted of all their power in Unleashed.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
The Biosphere/Geothermal energy =/= Gravitational Binding Energy. Geothermal energy is still only High 6-A. And that's just what's stored in the extractor, not how much Eggrobo can harness in every punch. And actually, Ifrit was stated to have gotten weaker. Also, I'm well aware of the variable tiers via being hearts of the users, but the Chaos Emeralds themselves do have limits; they're not Tier 0 like what's literally being implied by the word "Limitless". And even that, that would only qualify for Infinite stamina, but High 3-A individually. And they were depleted of all their power in Unleashed.
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I need a scan for that
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
The Biosphere/Geothermal energy =/= Gravitational Binding Energy. Geothermal energy is still only High 6-A. And that's just what's stored in the extractor, not how much Eggrobo can harness in every punch. And actually, Ifrit was stated to have gotten weaker based on what Weekly Battles mentioned on another thread. Also, I'm well aware of the variable tiers via being hearts of the users, but the Chaos Emeralds themselves do have limits; they're not Tier 0 like what's literally being implied by the word "Limitless". And even that, that would only qualify for Infinite stamina, but High 3-A individually. And they were depleted of all their power in Unleashed.
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Despite being stated that the Eggrobo had enough power to destroy the planet. It doesn't function like a battery, by the time Sonic fought the machine it was already powered by the energy it sucked from the planet. I have no idea what Weekly Battles mentioned on another thread, but I've played Sonic Rivals 2 recently and nowhere in the plot does it say he's weakened. The Chaos Emerald's have an unlimited supply of power, however from what we have seen so far via feats? Yes, they are at Tier 2 nothing higher. So, nobody is putting them at Tier 0 or Tier 1, based on the feats we have so far from the Emeralds is that they are Tier 2. The Emeralds power depends on a variety on other factors, they don't work on a fixed scale.
 
Ok after reading all of this, DDM and co. are almost on the money when it comes to the Emeralds' power. Sure they're "inconsistent", but not really. It's a "Yes, but actually no" type of deal. I'll explain. inhales deep

The Chaos Emeralds house infinite power. It's been stated in SA1, Sonic Battle, Shadow the Hedgehog, and many other games before and after it. The Emeralds can really be just as powerful as they want (as they were created by unknown Gods based on some Classic Era scans), but can be as weak as they want. Why? Because it depends on the user who wields them!

"The servers are the 7 Chaos. Chaos is power... Power enriched by the heart. The controller is the one that unifies the chaos." -Tikal

Tikal states that power is enriched by the heart. The heart is mostly a metaphor defining feelings and emotions. And the user who has the most positive emotions, or in this aptitude, has more control or power with the Emeralds. Hence why Blaze stated that the Emerald's can turn your thoughts into power. Which explains why Super Sonic has beaten Perfect Chaos in SA1. Or in Sonic Rush, Blaze lacked the positive emotions to bring back the warm and glowing energy of the Sol Emeralds until Sonic and co. help bring back the glow from the Emeralds. They were like ordinary stones, but became normal because of the "Power of Friendship", literally (which we all know are just parallel versions of the Emeralds so this analogy makes sense).

So we got the whole positive emotions part out of the way, but what about aptitude and variable AP? It's because with that aptitude the Emeralds HAVE a variable tier in power. It's why the Emeralds can destroy planets in one game, pierce stars in the next, a freakin' city, an entire universe and multiverse, then back to planet level just like that. It's because various characters, when using the emeralds, responds differently. Here are some examples:

>Shadow almost dying from using them in his Super Form after his sudden change into the good side

>Chaos going malevolent in his Perfect Chaos form where he destroyed the Echidna Tribe and almost wiped out an entire city

>Ix getting one shot by Super Sonic even though both use the same source of power

>Emerl going haywire and died mostly after absorbing all those Chaos Emeralds

>Tails going super with the Super Emeralds, but not with the Chaos Emeralds unlike Sonic and Knuckles And that's all I got for now as far as examples go.

So DDM, Cal, and anyone else who's in this downgrade, this is why the Emeralds have been showing different forms of AP in different games. It's not because of inconsistency, it's because of the aptitude of the ones wielding the emeralds. Or machines who are specialized to use a set variable because science.

Here are more sources that you need to look at:

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Emerald

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Master_Emerald

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Chaos_Control

https://sonic.fandom.com/wiki/Tikal
 
I....kinda already said that but okay lol. Scans are always fine.
 
That kind of also proves the problems with making every single non amplified character Tier 5. The Tier 5 feat done by one Emerald was done with Sonic's good heart in mind. Same with Sonic Advanced 3; they needed all 7 to undo another Tier 5 feat; which one again the good guys need all that. When a bad guy did the Tier 5 destruction feat. Sonic and the others have no reason to gather all 7 if all it took was one planet used by an evil person like what's being assumed. It's also consistent that the positive energy feats are usually well above the negative energy ones.
 
So the fact that it was the Master Emerald, not all 7 Emeralds that reversed the split is going to be ignored? Okay then.

A bomb can't undo a city being destroyed, I guess that means a bomb can't destroy a city.
 
Pre-fully healed Shadow's aptitude via his own statements about using the Chaos Emeralds "true power" to help him in fights in Sonic Battle allow conclusive power scaling multiple characters to a singular Chaos Emerald's best shown output feat in the first place with the said feat being tier 5. Even if you could say mecha laser cannons aren't as equal in aptitude as Shadow during Sonic Battle due to the one in Unleashed or some such. Multiple Emeralds having varying levels of AP is covered pretty nicely by VV100.


The Sonic Unleashed feat using 1 Emerald was also replicated more or less going by the volume and velocity of the said continents that got slammed back into place 6 other times.
 
Honestly, story inconsistencies shouldn't matter unless they're really contradictory for our purposes, so "Sonic and the others have no reason to gather all 7 if all it took was one planet used by an evil person like what's being assumed." doesn't really work as an argument. It's like the whole "Galactus can't be stronger than planet level because his power source is planet energy".
 
Granted, there are such inconsistencies. This is Sonic we're talking about.
 
There's still 0 proof that all it took was only one Chaos Emerald to cause the Earth to separate in Sonic Advanced 3. The only argument was just the whole, "We only saw one in the cut scene meaning he must not have the other 6 at all." That's the same thing as saying we don't see the rest of Eggman's body when he could have placed the other 6 in the other 6 identical slots off camera. It's never outright stated one way or the other, but the fact that Eggman was in possession of all seven Chaos Emeralds from the very beginning of the game and the plot was him separating the the Emeralds to Sonic and his friends can't find them makes him using all seven the Occam's Razor.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There's still 0 proof that all it took was only one Chaos Emerald to cause the Earth to separate in Sonic Advanced 3. The only argument was just the whole, "We only saw one in the cut scene meaning he must not have the other 6 at all." That's the same thing as saying we don't see the rest of Eggman's body when he could have placed the other 6 in the other 6 identical slots off camera. It's never outright stated one way or the other, but the fact that Eggman was in possession of all seven Chaos Emeralds from the very beginning of the game and the plot was him separating the the Emeralds to Sonic and his friends can't find them makes him using all seven the Occam's Razor.
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Eat it good
 
Because between this feat and this feat that 5-B+ is the baseline for a single Chaos Emerald. And that every single character, including Big the Cat and Amy Rose scale from it because they fought Chaos 4. That's how the ratings currently are which the purpose of the thread is saying that's not really consistent to make everyone that high. And as said above, it's extremely debatable whether or not the second feat was actually performed by a single Emerald.
 
Pause on 1:38 it clearly says "The Chaos Emeralds" if he only used one, it would have simply said "A Chaos Emerald".
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There's still 0 proof that all it took was only one Chaos Emerald to cause the Earth to separate in Sonic Advanced 3. The only argument was just the whole, "We only saw one in the cut scene meaning he must not have the other 6 at all." That's the same thing as saying we don't see the rest of Eggman's body when he could have placed the other 6 in the other 6 identical slots off camera. It's never outright stated one way or the other, but the fact that Eggman was in possession of all seven Chaos Emeralds from the very beginning of the game and the plot was him separating the the Emeralds to Sonic and his friends can't find them makes him using all seven the Occam's Razor.
Click to expand...
"There's still 0 proof that all it took was only one Chaos Emerald."

No, it's up to you to prove it's all 7 because you're saying something that isn't shown in the actual cutscene is present in it.

"He could have placed the other 6 in the other 6 identical slots off camera."

This is headcanon. Next.

"the fact that Eggman was in possession of all seven Chaos Emeralds from the very beginning of the game and the plot was him separating the the Emeralds to Sonic and his friends can't find them makes him using all seven the Occam's Razor."

Also never stated he had all of them in his possession. If the other 6 Emeralds were anywhere on the surface they'd still be separated by the planet splitting so that is irrelevant.
 
@DarkDragonMedeus

Why do you keep repeating this ad-nauseam? Dude, the cutscene literally shows you that one Chaos Emerald was all that was needed to reality warp the planet in Sonic Advance 3. If it was all 7 Emeralds? Then the cutscene would've showed Eggman using the other 6 emeralds, but we are shown that he's used one of them. The manual you linked as well doesn't even support you're point because it doesn't even state that Eggman used 7 emeralds to use Chaos Control.

Stop this lol. Base Sonic Characters are Tier 5
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Pause on 1:38 it clearly says "The Chaos Emeralds" if he only used one, it would have simply said "A Chaos Emerald".
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This is a non-sequitur argument. It says Eggman is planning to use the Chaos Emeralds to build Eggmanland, not that he's obtained all of them yet. Splitting the planet was part of the goal, but it doesn't complete it.
 
Yes, and would he need all 7 if the feat allegedly only required one? Again, the cut-scene was rushed, unfinished, and doesn't really hold a lot of weight. The rest of the whole plot of the game clearly indicates that Eggman was in possession of all 7. Each and every boss was also in possession of a Chaos Emerald and was a robot built by Eggman. If one of Eggman's robots was holding an Emerald, that counts as Eggman being in possession of it. So we have countless indicators of using all 7 versus only one and that one is awfully too vague. It's headcanon to assume he didn't have the other 6 either. Consistency is a better reason for Occam's Razor then simply hiding an outlier.

@Sera, alright, rest up well.
 
Sorry, but if a cutscene only shows one Chaos Emerald? The greater assumption is to assume he had all seven rather than fewer.

Also you'll have to show clips of "every boss" having a Chaos Emerald. Which still wouldn't prove that he used all seven Chaos Emeralds in that moment either. Don't accuse us of spewing headcanons when that's what many of your arguments rely on. Like Dark Gaia "holding back" split pieces of the planet in Unleashed, or similar things that have been stated in an attempt to disprove an upgrade.

I mean no offense by any of this btw, so don't take it too harshly.
 
Really DDM, you're going to blame the cutscene for being rushed and unfinished? That's just silly, the cutscene is there to show the context of why the planet got split into pieces, which was Eggman using Chaos Control, and it does the job just fine.

Also Eggman robots on the ground having possession of a Chaos Emerald still wouldn't prove Eggman had them with him on the space station.

You don't use "consistency" as a reason for Occam's Razor. You look at the actual evidence in the game, not unrelated events from other games.
 
The greater assumption is to assume the one chaos emerald we see on screen is the only Chaos Emerald in his possession. You have to prove that Eggman stated he only had one, or where the other 6 were when he activated it. Because, part of Occam's Razor means you have to consider the consistency of both the rest of the series and the rest of the game. Also wow, the one time I use the word Headcanon, people call me out for it when everyone else has used the word at every single statement that disagrees with them. I never said Dark Gaia holds back, I simply said Inverse Square law of a bee fighting an elephant and Gaia Colossus also being the one that's doing all the muscle work. And that Sonic simply pokes Gaia in the eyes.

@Shadow, yes, you do consider consistency and evidence from other works. It's still better than 0 evidence at all. Either Chaos Emerald splitting the planet is an outlier, or it required all 7. Assuming the 5-A feat was performed by one Chaos Emerald is called fan service.

I also know full well what you guys all say behind my back offsite. So I think twice before pointing the fingers at me. And it's not just me, the other stuff being said behind other staff members behind their backs are even worse.
 
@DDM You have the SA3 planet splitting and the moving continents in Unleashed that was calced at 5-B. One Emerald being tier 5 is not an outlier. Also the SA3 feat is rated as 5-B since it happened off-screen and there's no calc for it.

And "fan service?" That's not a mature thing to say because someone doesn't agree with you. The evidence shows that there's only one Emerald that Eggman used to split the planet, you have to prove otherwise.

BTW Shake was referring when you tried to dismiss the Chaos Emeralds moving continents as just Dark Gaia holding them up and the Emeralds nulled him, not about scaling Base Sonic to Dark Gaia.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I also know full well what you guys all say behind my back offsite. So I think twice before pointing the fingers at me. And it's not just me, the other stuff being said behind other staff members behind their backs are even worse.
Click to expand...
Maybe if you were nicer, debate without headcanons, and overall a better person (both on and offsite), then we all wouldn't hate you as a collective group. Take Cal for instance. He's bias against Sonic too, hell he admitted it, and yet he still respects us and actually debates. He was kinda our friend for a pretty substantial amount of time. You? You lack respect and try to argue with your game theorist logic and appeal to authority in like every. single. thread. There's a reason why we think you're distasteful and annoying as hell to deal with. Like legitimate reasons. No headcanons or anything else stupid.
 
I'm not talking about the Continent lifting part, that part is indeed 5-B, but it shouldn't scale to anyone is the problem. The Chaos Cannon splitting the Planet into 7 pieces very similarly to what happened in SA3, was the 5-A calculation. And Naruto Forum accepted it as a second 5-A feat, but considered it being done by 7 Chaos Emeralds.

It's not about disagreeing with me, it's about what's legitimate accuracy. There's 0 evidence that the one we see on screen is the only Emerald and is the same thing as saying we don't see anything beyond Eggman's head and hand on screen so he doesn't have any legs.

@VioletVoid, and I'm not biased against Sonic at all or any verse for that matter. I do my job as an Admin, and I've actually been very friendly to a lot of people. But when people legit attack me first and I have every right to be defensive. I really don't need to remind you about that final warning Antvasima gave you.
 
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