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Cal's Base Sonic CRT

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@ShadowWarrior1999 this sca notes that he broke the world into 7 parts using Chaos Control and scattered the 7 Chaos Emeralds after doing so. And it says all seven Chaos Emeralds are needed to restore the planet. Furthermore, it's consistent with the plot of the rest of the game that each and every Emerald was possessed by Eggman's robots; he'd have no reason to only place one in the machine when he clearly had access to the other 6.

Furthermore, it's also consistent with literally every other Sonic game. The feat is 100% identical to the Chaos Cannon in Unleashed, which used all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and same with the plot of other Sonic games both Classic and Modern when Eggman needed all 7 to perform similar feats in the first place. There's no reason to assume the one random instance of 1 Chaos Emerald doing the same thing that was always depending on the access to all seven.
 
Sonic Forces saying Sonic was being tortured for six months despite him being his usual cheery self when he's freed, along with Tails "just losing it" despite him being all fine and dandy working on Omega, were both just added to the English version to try and make the story more serious. The original Japanese version lacks either of these statements, which explains why there's a discrepancy between what we're told and what we're shown.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
@ShadowWarrior1999 this sca notes that he broke the world into 7 parts using Chaos Control and scattered the 7 Chaos Emeralds after doing so. And it says all seven Chaos Emeralds are needed to restore the planet. Furthermore, it's consistent with the plot of the rest of the game that each and every Emerald was possessed by Eggman's robots; he'd have no reason to only place one in the machine when he clearly had access to the other 6.
Furthermore, it's also consistent with literally every other Sonic game. The feat is 100% identical to the Chaos Cannon in Unleashed, which used all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and same with the plot of other Sonic games both Classic and Modern when Eggman needed all 7 to perform similar feats in the first place. There's no reason to assume the one random instance of 1 Chaos Emerald doing the same thing that was always depending on the access to all seven.
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That scan is there to give you a general idea of the plot itself, yes Eggman used 7 Emeralds however in the cutscene which is more valid mind you we see Eggman use only one Emerald to reality warp the planet.

You can't compare the machine Eggman used in Advance 3 to the one in Unleashed. They are made differently and are two different machines.
 
@Sera, basically. A lot of Sonic characters including underdogs like Big the Cat and Amy Rose are currently rated at Planet level+ scaling from one random feat that one Chaos Emerald did restoring the Continent. And then we have Chaos 2 or Chaos 4 being empowered by more than one Chaos Emerald, despite the numerous feats of multiple Chaos Emeralds having consistent feats less than that; example 5 Chaos Emeralds performing a 6-B feat in Shadow the Hedgehog and 6 performing at Low 5-B feat in Sonic Adventure 2. And even Chaos 0 is 5-B due to fighting base Sonic, Base Knuckles, ect. And the other supposed back up feat is from Sonic Advanced 3. While the plot implies that the split the Earth and need all 7 to restore it, people are often assuming it was done by only one solely because we only saw one on camera.

Basically, the ones who agree with Zamasu and Cal agree that it's an outlier for one Chaos Emerald to be Tier 5 despite the numerous feats below that done by multiple Emeralds. And then the ones against are trying to say it isn't an outlier.

Also, I do apologize that you had to get involved, since you feel the need to avoid Sonic threads for reasons like this.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
@ShadowWarrior1999 this sca notes that he broke the world into 7 parts using Chaos Control and scattered the 7 Chaos Emeralds after doing so. And it says all seven Chaos Emeralds are needed to restore the planet. Furthermore, it's consistent with the plot of the rest of the game that each and every Emerald was possessed by Eggman's robots; he'd have no reason to only place one in the machine when he clearly had access to the other 6.
Click to expand...
That scan says nothing about Eggman having all 7 Chaos Emeralds, all it does is say that Sonic has to go find the 7 Emeralds. Plus it would make no sense for the Emeralds to be scattered across the world if Eggman already had all of them in his possession.

Furthermore, it's also consistent with literally every other Sonic game. The feat is 100% identical to the Chaos Cannon in Unleashed, which used all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and same with the plot of other Sonic games both Classic and Modern when Eggman needed all 7 to perform similar feats in the first place. There's no reason to assume the one random instance of 1 Chaos Emerald doing the same thing that was always depending on the access to all seven.

Saying "it's consistent" with literally every other Sonic game isn't a valid reason, at best it's extrapolation. You still have to providence actual evidence from the game to support the notion that the feat was done by all 7 Emeralds when the default assumption is that it was only done by one as that was all that was shown. Also Eggman doesn't need all 7 Emeralds to perform planet busting feats, he wants all 7 Emeralds because they are they key to obtaining ultimate power so he can rule over everyone.
 
My stance is that the cast is currently scaling to Chaos 4, and all of the cast at that, and Hereford the power of Chaos + 4 Chaos Emeralds, from Sonic to Big to Cream to Cheese. Which makes Chaos 0 completely fodder despite his appearance in Battle and Forces proving otherwise. Furthermore, DDM brought up the point that scaling to the SA3 feat due to Eggman using one emerald to break the planet shouldn't be the case given that it wouldn't require all 7 to fix the mistakes of one emerald.
 
Also, I agree with what everyone has stated here so far. Chaos 0 has literally been defeated by Sonic NUMEROUS times: >Sonic Adventure >Sonic Battle >Sonic Generations >Sonic Forces

In all of these games? Chaos 0 has been fodderized. Sonic beats him on numerous occasions in SA1, bodies Perfect Chaos in Gens, and Chaos 0 loses to Classic Sonic and the rest of the characters even fought an army of Chaos 0's.

I could level up my Pokemon team to lvl 100 and stomp the game but doesn't mean that Red no-diff'd Blue. With Forces, no, it's not just Tails suffering from PTSD. One, that's your own interpretation and purely headcanon. Two, Chaos 0 was capable of hurting Sonic as well as the others, and is treated on par with Zavok, Shadow, Metal Sonic, and Infinite. If you're saying that Chaos 0 was no-diff'd by the cast then you're saying Shadow and Metal Sonic get no-diff'd by the cast. There's undeniable inconsistencies here.

That's another false equivalency. Tails suffering from PTSD is simply bad writing, when Tails has shown to be a completely capable fighter in the past games. Chaos 0 was defeated by Classic Sonic, Cal. He's not on par with Infinite at all.
 
The real cal howard said:
Furthermore, DDM brought up the point that scaling to the SA3 feat due to Eggman using one emerald to break the planet shouldn't be the case given that it wouldn't require all 7 to fix the mistakes of one emerald.
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Even if that was the case, that'd be like saying a bomb can't destroy a city because it can't also be used to fix one.

The planet split as I mentioned was also undone by the Master Emerald, not all 7 Chaos Emeralds.
 
SA3 or Unleashed?


If it's the former, the plot of the games was to collect all 7 to undo that. You do collect the Emeralds there.

Heck, if it was the Master Emerald that reverted it, that would be even worse, given the ME is > the CE.
 
The real cal howard said:
@Godhand. Defeat=/=Stomp. Link has consistently defeated Ganon and Kirby has consistently defeated Zero. You'd be remiss to say that they stomped them though.
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No, once again those are false comparsions. Ganon can give Link an actual fight, so can Zero to Kirby. Sonic literally has mooped the floor with Chaos 0 several times throughout the games.
 
The Chaos Emeralds are not consistent due to their very nature. It wasn't that long ago when we discussed this. The power of the emeralds is variant on the user, so we should always go by feats.

Chaos 0 has been beaten by Sonic multiple times.

Eggman uses the emeralds for planet level feats because he wants to dominate the planet. The emeralds have been shown to have stellar and even universal feats depending on the wielder's intentions.

Tails (as well as many other Sonic characters) are being immensely flanderized in current writing, and has been since Sonic Colors. Heck, I can argue that Sonic and the Black Knight was the last Sonic game that had the characters have some actual depth. Even 06 has great character writing moments like Shadow's arc. Tails is not some wimpy crybaby dependent on Sonic, but he's been made that way in recent games. They gave him an inferiority complex out of nowhere.

There's more but I really don't feel like discussing this.
 
Chaos 0 was actually considered challenge to the cast in Sonic Battle and Sonic Forces, Chaos 0 also overpowered Knuckles early on in Sonic Adventure. Also, the Chaos Emeralds do have feats beyond planetary, but only when all 7 of them are together. But one Chaos Emerald is usually pretty featless.
 
Sera EX said:
The Chaos Emeralds are not consistent due to their very nature. It wasn't that long ago when we discussed this. The power of the emeralds is variant on the user, so we should always go by feats.
Click to expand...
Well this hits harder than I thought.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Chaos 0 was actually considered challenge to the cast in Sonic Battle and Sonic Forces, Chaos 0 also overpowered Knuckles early on in Sonic Adventure.
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Choas 0 was seen once in Sonic Battle and that's when he fought Emerl. Like I said before, Classic Sonic defeated Chaos 0 and the rest of the cast fought an army of them in the game.

Right, but Knuckles went on to fight a stronger version of him later on in his story.
 
The Chaos Energy Canon was used to send a blast of concentrated Chaos Energy to awaken Dark Gaia, thus the machine is required to absorb more power. The machine Eggman uses in Advance 3 isn't specified but it obviously functions differently because one chaos emerald is all that's needed to reality warp the entire planet.

Regardless it doesn't matter because...

The Emeralds each have an infinite amount of power, one is not stronger than the other. That's why the feats vary when characters use the Chaos Emeralds. So, no none of this is "inconsistent" but actually very consistent across the game's story.
 
Yeah, Sonic defeating enemies empowered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds is PIS; and/or the equivalent of a bee stinging an elephant in the eye. He defeated a weakened Ifrit, who has his High 6-A feat at his prime. And stuff like Eggrobo have High 6-A regular feats and one 5-B statement. But being empowered by something doesn't mean you have all of it absorbed; being empowered by the Sun doesn't make you 4-C. And none of the Black Hole stuff are legit and oneshot everyone even if they were. And Adventure Sonic is above Classic Sonic for sure; who has his Low 6-B feat. And honestly, High 6-A is the most generous thing to scale to the base form characters outside of obvious PIS and Outliers.

@Godhand1999, Also, "Infinite Power" is an obvious hyperbole/NLF that's constantly disproven in every single game. That also makes it sound like the 5-A feat was done by really stressing the Chaos Emeralds, as they basically became lifeless rocks after empowering the Chaos Cannon.
 
Sera EX said:
The Chaos Emeralds are not consistent due to their very nature. It wasn't that long ago when we discussed this. The power of the emeralds is variant on the user, so we should always go by feats.
Click to expand...
I'm gonna elaborate here. Since the Emeralds vary individually as well, that'll explain why more than one perform 6-B and low 5-B feats and why one has a 5-B+ feat and a low 2-C feat. Simply because they vary. However just because an Emerald has a 5-B+ feat doesn't mean we should scale the base cast to it. It's the same reason why a lot of Super Forms are just 5-A or 4-A and not all 2-C. Point is, we need feats and if it varies we always go for the low end.

Make of that as you well and don't @ me. I'm trying not to get too involved so lea me lone
 
No that's not what I'm saying, they're still gonna be 5-B but since the Emeralds vary and their lowest showing was 6-B then that's the low end for Emeralds not base characters.
 
It wasn't at you, it was GodHand, ShadowWarror, TheUser, Smashor, Oblivion Lighting, and Violet Void who all say every single non-amped character should be performed by the best feat done by one Chaos Emerald.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
It wasn't at you, it was GodHand, ShadowWarror, TheUser, Smashor, Oblivion Lighting, and Violet Void who all say every single non-amped character should be performed by the best feat done by one Chaos Emerald.
Click to expand...
Actually I didn't say anything yet.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah, Sonic defeating enemies empowered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds is PIS; and/or the equivalent of a bee stinging an elephant in the eye. He defeated a weakened Ifrit, who has his High 6-A feat at his prime. And stuff like Eggrobo have High 6-A regular feats and one 5-B statement. But being empowered by something doesn't mean you have all of it absorbed; being empowered by the Sun doesn't make you 4-C. And none of the Black Hole stuff are legit and oneshot everyone even if they were. And Adventure Sonic is above Classic Sonic for sure; who has his Low 6-B feat. And honestly, High 6-A is the most generous thing to scale to the base form characters outside of obvious PIS and Outliers.
@Godhand1999, Also, "Infinite Power" is an obvious hyperbole/NLF that's constantly disproven in every single game. That also makes it sound like the 5-A feat was done by really stressing the Chaos Emeralds, as they basically became lifeless rocks after empowering the Chaos Cannon.
Click to expand...
So, DDM let me cut you short right? 1. Ifrit was never weakened in Sonic Rivals 2. That was never stated in the game whatsoever.

2.The Eggrobo was literally created from and composed of energy harnessed from the entire planet's biosphere, which was stated to be capable of blowing up the whole planet without leaving a trace.

3.The Chaos Emeralds literally have been stated numerous times throughout the entire series to have an unlimited supply of energy. It is not a NLF at all DDM it's how the character's power vary when they use the Emeralds power. No, they weren't "lifeless rocks" after powering up the Chaos Cannon. They were just rendered inert and not useable at the time. The Emeralds are powered by one's thoughts, emotions, and aptitude. THAT is what powers the Emeralds, why we have a variable tier, and why their power varies between each game.
 
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