Butters Brackets: Round 12 Deathstroke vs Bonsly

[WeeklyBattles]

PP is game mechanixs

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

So now it is my fault that you made claims that even you admit that you cannot back up or are unwilling to? Really man?
He hasn't dealt with all of slades abilities at once but he has dealt with many similar things, each with abilities comparable to slades and many he lacks. So nothing he has is that special since bonsly can mimic them.

Terra can't summon rocks above him like Bonsly so his experience will actually hurt him since he would not expect that from any other earth manipulator since it didn't happen to him.

Mimic and Copycat can mimic attacks from technological Pokémon such as Genesect, Magerna, Klink, and a few others.

Reducing drag would increase speed though as it reduces what slows you down, even if you were right about that Bonsly would still have the edge. A reaction/ attack speed amp still lets him dodge or block most of not all of slades attacks and overwhelm him in melee when combined with sucker punch and mimic/ copycat to mimic the

Does the suit protect him from blades attacks or bullets? Bonsly can mimic those too and with how long those last he would get to try it eventually.

This isn't just a strength difference like Slade has dealt with, this is blitz/tank worthy difference. Has he dealt with people who can blitz him and tank most to all of his attacks? Has he dealt with that plus someone who can copy all of his moves and is literally about foot tall? How would tranqs work on a rock? How would explosions work when Bonsly resists the only two moves that are explosives and is 4-8 times more durable then slades attacks? How would a staff even hit him when he has a massive stat advantage (Blitz plus tanking everything with half of his stat changes.)

Except I have backed them up. You just don't believe the evidence unless I do something like personally livestream me poeaching an elephant. I've shown what damage those weapons do to elephants, I've listed several links saying that poachers commonly use AK-47s, and more examples of elephant poachers killing elephants with that. There's only so much stubbornness I can fight against.

Except Bonsly can't mimic any useful ability from Slade that'd help him win the fight. Deathstroke is a combat genius with all of his abilities, compared to wild animals with one of several abilities at a time. It's not a reliable comparison like someone with say, half his abilities or so.

That wouldn't cause his experience hurt him at all. Who would think that all abilities work exactly the same way, especially in a verse like DC Comics?

Those pokemon are alive. There's a difference between technology and an actual living thing. Where's the evidence that it outright mimics technology? You can't seriously try to be so nitpicky over me posting something illegal yet not expect to do the same yourself.

I never said reducing drag doesn't increase speed, it just doesn't increase all sections of speed to make an absolute blitz like you claim. The only think that gets amped is attack speed and maybe travel speed, but the combat speed and reactions remain the same. This is still not the first time Deathstroke fought against someone far faster than him.

Give evidence that Bonsly can mimic bullets. And yes, the suit does protect him from that. In fact, the smaller the surface area of the attack, the more effective it is. That's why the suit was described as impenetrable to the area of a human fist, let alone a bullet.

What? Deathstroke has experience against people TIERS above him in both speed and strength.

> Has he dealt with people who can blitz him and tank most to all of his attacks?

Have you ignored me saying Superman? Did you remember that Speedsters exist in DC? Slade used tactis to fool a speedster to run straight into his blade once, let alone someone far slower to the point of Slade still being capable of reacting to.

> Has he dealt with that plus someone who can copy all of his moves and is literally about foot tall?

Until you show otherwise, there's nothing Bonsly can reliably copy that'd help much in the fight, and Deathstroke has shown precision to hit someone at the microscopic level.

> How would tranqs work on a rock?

The "rock" is alive. It can breed. It can eat. It can get knocked out and it can die. Yes, it has a unique physiology, but you'd have to prove it wouldn't work.

> How would explosions work when Bonsly resists the only two moves that are explosives and is 4-8 times more durable then slades attacks?

Beause those explosions are repelled forces from Bonsly, who is not immune to explosions.

> How would a staff even hit him when he has a massive stat advantage

This is a repeat of the first argument, refer to above.

You still made no argument as to how Bonsly is gonna get passed that suit with physical attacks.

 

[00potato]

You need to prove that Tranqs work on a literal Rock, it isn't a traditionally alive being. You can't treat a rock like a cat or dog, it is a rock. Why should I have to prove the negative, that isn't even how basic logic works.

Show me the fight with Superman and the speedsters, comics are extremely inconsistent so that is most likely an outlier unless you can prove it was purely through skill and not just an inflated statistic for Slade in a few appearances. Tricking someone into running into a sword only works if they can't move out of the way in time, Bonsly can definitely dodge or intercept with Sucker Punch, just Tank it since a sword won't hurt him, Counter hurts Slade more then it does Bon.

Bonsly resists explosion and has dura/ speed amps and speed debuffs, so he can get out of the way of the deadliest part of the blast and tank it with ease.


The staff nor the explosions can't hurt him due to his durability amps.


I did though, he can mimic it, nullifying the advantage, or mimic any of slades moves that can bypass it.


How is Slade gonna hit him when he can get blitzed? You have yet to provide a good explanation for that.


Also did you actually claim Slade could react to an amped Bonsly? In total that would be 8 times, 7.5 times is blitz worthy.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Need to stop acting like the sword won't hurt him cause it will hurt him. The difference in power is not that big. Especially with a cut weapon and the fact his stats aren't realistically gonna be knocked that low

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Need to stop acting like the sword won't hurt him cause it will hurt him. The difference in power is not that big. Especially with a cut weapon and the fact his stats aren't realistically gonna be knocked that low

I mean at max stat reduction he will only be doing something like 25% of his normal damage

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

The burden of proof is on you. This isn't a robot or anything, it's a Pokemon that has a consciousness (since it an be knocked out, which is unconsciousness), which, along with my other statements of it, means it is capable of sleep.

If it wasn't by skill, of course it'd be an outlier. Deathstroke" #8, 2016, the entire fight was against someone with super senses, super speed, and super strength. You still haven't provided a reliable counter to why the swords and bullets wouldn't pierce Deathstroke, so don't act like it wouldn't until you do so. I'll go ahead and grab more proof later.

Resists, not immune. Especially to concussion grenades designed to diminish one's ability to think and concentrate, which your entire argument falls under since you assume that Bonsly would think about doing everything in the order you claim it would.

The staff is made of metal, one of its weaknesses. Hell tbh the sword is made out of metal as well.

Don't say you did it, show you did it. You have the nerve to get on me about the whole elephant thing yet you're just outright not giving it to me when I asked for it. All you're doing is saying without proof.

I have stated that only the attack speed is increased, not the general combat and reaction speed. It won't be a blitz regardless.

Refer to above, again.

You still made no argument as to how Bonsly is gonna get passed that suit with physical attacks.

Edit: Flash makes a move to charge at Deathstroke, when he activates explosives, foring the only viable option to attack from being from behind, where he casually has the Flash doom himself .

 

[Buttersamuri]

I mean at max stat reduction he will only be doing something like 25% of his normal damage

And in cases where they started out just as strong as each other; it would work in that case. But slade starts out above 1.7 tons of TNT. Even at 25 percent of that (.425 Tons of tnt), it's still not nearly weak enough to not be capable of doing damage. Bonsly scales to .62 Tons of tnt. It's not even a Times 2 gap in power and durability. Adding on Bonsly weakness to metal attacks and cut damage being a thing. And that's the best situation for bonsly assuming he's gets max stat reduction. So even then, Slade should be more than capable of causing harm.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Bonsly is able to amp its durability to the same degree tho

 

[Psychomaster35]

It doesnt matter, it starts almost 3 times weaker, and by the time it tries to stat amp/debuff, Slade already has the range to shoot the false tree to death.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except bonsly has equal range with its ranged attacks

 

[GyroNutz]

Just saying, there are feats that place baby Pokemon higher into 8-C.

Also Bonsly being concious doesn't mean that it has a bloodstream which can be affected by tranq darts and the like. And iirc it was agreed that we can't verse-equalize weaknesses/resistances to stuff like swords/martial arts/bird attacks when it comes to Pokemon.

 

[00potato]

Hedge, that is Slade reacting to the flash, that is just an outlier speed feat, not a skill feat.

He doesn't start at 3 times weaker, he tanks the .62 Feat (I already mentioned that but you have to ignore that if you want to have an argument I guess.) and he can lower slades AP by looking at him by 4-6 times. So most attacks won't hurt him and he can amp to dodge them with ease. The amps are faster then aiming and shooting even before speed amps (looking at him Tensing up, etc) so he will definitely use them, they are the most basic actions possible, so it is pathetically easy to get max stat effects.

Bonsly will lower slades AP to below tank able levels and can increase his dura 4 times, so even super effective moves will be tanked.

Slade has no real win cons here. He can't hurt Bonsly, he gets Blitzed, and you clearly need to misrepresent things to win (using outlier speed feats, misrepresentation of AP, what you said about PP, etc)

Let's look at the advantages

Bonsly AP Blitz worthy Speed Tanking levels of Durability Small and hard to hit. Can mimic all of Slades Attacks

Slade Skill Range (Ignored since blitz level amps let Bonsly get into range with ease)

 

[Buttersamuri]

Bonsly is able to amp its durability to the same degree tho

But it's an unlikely event he uses and gets both in at their max capabilities.

 

[00potato]

It doesnt matter, it starts almost 3 times weaker, and by the time it tries to stat amp/debuff, Slade already has the range to shoot the false tree to death.

The dura amp is just caused by tensing up. Bonsly tanks .62 a 4 times amp will make that chip damage at most. The AP debuff (literally just looking at him.) will make it tankable.

Before you pull of "lolpierce" attacks like blades, Megahorn, and Pin Missle don't pierce him, so why would a gun?

 

[00potato]

But it's an unlikely event he uses and gets both in at their max capabilities.

No it isn't the amps are just stuff like looking at Slade or tensing up, that will easily be done throughout the fight.

You are again misrepresentating things for no reason.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Did you read the second scan? Wally was fast enough to move around the explosions, that's what Deathstroke was counting on so he could blinly run into the sword Slade was holding. The entire process was a tactical counter to speed. This wasn't Deathstroke just blindly swinging his blade and it just happened to hit the Flash, this is the equivalent of blindly running around a corner and bumping into a person. Literally the only reason this was brought up in the first place was because you wanted proof that Slade has experience against speedsters, and now you're trying to change this to a speed feat.

The amps are faster then aiming and shooting even before speed amps (looking at him Tensing up, etc) so he will definitely use them, they are the most basic actions possible, so it is pathetically easy to get max stat effects.

You have ignored several times now that Bonsly has no way to physically get by Slade's Ikon-suit. I've repeated it for you, I've quoted it for you, and you still go out of your way to ignore it. Yet you have the nerve to talk about wincons. Blade, bullets, penetration damage wins this and they're Slade's go-to.

You've also ignored, again, how I said the speed amp would only boost attack speed and possibly travel speed, not all speed in general, so it isn't a blitz.

You've also ignored to give me actual proof of Bonsly mimicing pure technology.

You've also ignored the incapacitating tech that Slade has, when he'd already get an informational analysis of Bonsly and its weaknesses to exploit with a concussion grenade, especially since there's no argument that about Bonsly always using a speed amp as his go-to first move.

Address them.

@Gyro it's split in the weakness section what are weaknesses 'out-of-verse' and 'in-verse'. The only thing Bonsly has for in-verse weakness for is Martial Arts.

And I didn't only use the fact that Bonsly had a consciousness, I brought up that it breeds, I brought up that it eats, I brought up that it dies, etc. I see too much signs of life to dismiss everything else just beause it has a different physiology.

 

[00potato]

Your scans say "Slade saw it coming." And "He was quicker where it counts. Not only does that suggest that he wasn't blitzes, just a bit slower, but if he was blitzes by the flash then he wouldn't have been able to do any of that in time. So that, like most things here, are moot.

You still haven't proven that Tranqs would work on a rock. He is alive in some respects (the same respects that Pokémon attributes to a literal Chandelier so it probably is just game mechanics.) but still is a rock, he is made of rock and does rocky things. You still need to prove the positive, I don't need to prove the negative when your proof is like most things here, moot.

He could easily dodge the concision grenades due to amps and will not get harmed much due to resistance.

He stills tanks or dodges Slades martial Arts (Half of his AP effectiving abilities cause him to tank most attacks, one instance of the other will increase his durability to the point that Even a super effective attack can't hurt him.


I already gave proof to the technology point, Genesect, Klink, and Magearna. but you must have ignored it, it kinda hurts your case.


Blades don't work due to tanking and blitz

Bullets get dodged due to blitz and the points I already mentioned about other moves not piercing.

All of your win cons are false, I don't get why I am explaining it but some people never learn.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Which is still looking at the best and unlikeliest Situation as your refusing to look at any other possibility. Like them not spamming that ability. Which is much more plausible since they don't tend to actually spam it. They may use it, but not spam it to continue to knock him down. "Bonsly isnt stupid" still isn't a valid argument as you don't have to be stupid to not do something in character. Only times they try that is with a trainer, and that's trainer tactics, not Bondlys tactics. And even then, the projectile ones can still be dodged.

 

[00potato]

Yeah it is. The Bonsly's you are using to claim that he won't do it are far less experienced and have less moves, so they won't scale at all. (Unless you need to Downplay to make your argument, which we all understand is the case here.)The amps are for literally in every respect, the most reasonable option, so it is the most sensible choice for an experienced fighter in a life or death situation.

The projectiles are often AOE and are coming from someone with a blitz level speed advantage so no he isn't dodging no matter how much you wank or downplay.


Can you please move on to actual arguments? This is getting tiring.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

"Quicker where it counts" was speaking about his tactical thinking, like saying "I'm two steps ahead of you". Your entire argument for a speed blitz (even though I've already addressed that Rock Polish doesn't grant a possible speed blitz) relies on Bonsly being 4-8 times faster. Slade can move an entire foot by the time Bonsly doesn't even cross 10 feet, and that's assuming he is even likely to use the ability twice from the getgo, else you can't even argue for 5 feet. On top of that, this all comes to an end of needing to activate this ability at the start, which again, you don't address if this is a likely thing for Bonsly to start off with.

That's because I'm proving that Bonsly isn't "just a rock" in the first place. That's not logic of game mechanics. The fact that you can address it as being alive period is completely contradictory to roks being nonliving. Heck, sleep manipulation is a literal thing in pokemon, has Bonsly shown resistance to that because it's 'just a rock'?

Those amps that it'd have to use at the start in order for it to be usable, the amps that don't inrease its reaction speed or the likes, the amps that don't help with Slade stealthily using it mid-combat like he always does subtle things midcombat to gain an advantage, and the amps that do nothing to the fact that the conussion grenades are meant specifically to cause loss of concentration.

Slade isn't some novice fighter, you're acting like just because he's small it means that Deathstroke will struggle to hit him. And again, acting as if he'd always use the amp at the start. This amp isn't some passive y'know, it's an active.

You think I ignored that?...

Those pokemon are alive. There's a difference between technology and an actual living thing. Where's the evidence that it outright mimics technology? You can't seriously try to be so nitpicky over me posting something illegal yet not expect to do the same yourself.

Give evidence that Bonsly can mimic bullets.

... no. You ignored my counter response.

Blades do work due to Penetration AP, this isn't a 9001 durability amp. Edit: not to mention, metallic weaponry

You still haven't brought up an counterargument for what I've brought up about combat speed. Heck, to even bring up the old argument about lifting strength, Deathstroke could likely easily pry the boulders off of him in the first place, assuming that the attack even lands on him.

And again: YOU STILL HAVE NO WINCONS FOR BONSLY SINCE THIS IS THE FIFTH TIME I'M DEMANDING YOU TO TELL ME HOW BONSLY BYPASSES THE KINETIC ENERGY SUIT.

Yet you're still talking about wincons.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Actually, I've said it more than enough times, but I'll say it one more time in a separate comment just so it sticks out for everyone to see:

How does Bonsly get pass the Ikon-Suit?

 

[GyroNutz]

@Gyro it's split in the weakness section what are weaknesses 'out-of-verse' and 'in-verse'. The only thing Bonsly has for in-verse weakness for is Martial Arts.

And I didn't only use the fact that Bonsly had a consciousness, I brought up that it breeds, I brought up that it eats, I brought up that it dies, etc. I see too much signs of life to dismiss everything else just beause it has a different physiology.

I'm aware; in fact, I'm the one who made the page. Bonsly is weak to metal manipulation, not metal in general. By the same token, flying type moves that consist of 'an attack used by a bird' (such as wing attack) don't get verse-equalized, but flying type moves that consist of air manipulation (such as hurricane) are fair game.

None of these are enough to say that tranq darts would be effective on Bonsly, since it having a different physiology is enough to say that tranq darts won't work. Technically Bonsly can't breed either.

According to the wiki the ikon suit is virtually-impenetrable against anything around the size of a human fist. Bonsly doesn't use punches or fist-sized attacks to attack, so he should be fine.

As a sidenote, calm down. Bold capital letters will get you nowhere.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

iirc it also applies to metal used in an attack, like pikachu's iron tail. or characters with metal claws. basically being hit with metal attacks in general.</span>

"Obtaining a Bonsly in HeartGold and SoulSilver requires either breeding a Sudowoodo or Transferring one from the Pokéwalker, as Bonsly can be found on the Pokéwalker course Big Forest."

"The only way to obtain a Bonsly in Pokémon Black 2 is to breed a Sudowoodo."

"In Pokémon X and Y, Bonsly can be obtained by breeding a Sudowoodo."

I understood beforehand that Bonsly is a baby pokemon, being technical about it doesn't change the my point.

Also: "Bonsly appears at the Ranger School and Vien Forest in Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia, but the Field Ability Water Lv. 1 might be needed to wake it up", meaning it does sleep, and since sleep manipulation is a thing in pokemon yet it has no resistance to it as well as showing several, I don't see why it can't be put to sleep.

The entire suit absorbs kinetic energy no matter the surface area, it's just at its prime effectiveness against fist-sized and smaller attacks, which is why it could momentarily hold back even Superman.

And to address the sidenote: I am calm. I understand that capital letters can constantly be interpreted as yelling, but in this context I was using it so that he could see the message. As stated in that same sentence, it was the fifth time it was addressed and ignored, so I was making sure it was too "potent" to not ignore.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sleep manip in pokemon is capable of affecting inanimate objects. Youre making the wrong assumptions here my guy.

 

[GyroNutz]

What I'm saying is that moves like Iron Tail, Iron Head, or other moves that come under "hitting the opponent but with metal" don't count as a weakness under verse-equalized, the same way someone like Pikachu doesn't resist swords and bullets.

Sudowoodo is Bonsly's evolution, a process that has seen Pokemon drastically change in physiology. But I digress. Being affected by sleep manip is different from being affected by tranq darts as tranq darts have to enter the bloodstream to work.

How effective is the suit against attacks that aren't the size of fists?

Alright, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Abstractions]

meaning it does sleep, and since sleep manipulation is a thing in pokemon yet it has no resistance to it as well as showing several, I don't see why it can't be put to sleep.

Yes, Pokemon sleep, but in this instance you are attempting to put it to sleep using drugs from a tranquilizer, which will not work because Bonsly is a rock and thus inorganic, you cannot tranquilize rocks.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sleep Powder

 

[Buttersamuri]

are you the devils advocate or the advocate agaisnt the devil

 

[WeeklyBattles]

 

[Buttersamuri]

 

[Buttersamuri]

So since sleeping powder works, does that make tranqs and sud has things viable to consider?

 

[Psychomaster35]

I mean, the powder is something they can sniff for them to fall asleep, and that proves they are organic. So, darts should affect them, especially since there are moves that exist that pierce an opponent.

 

[GyroNutz]

Sleep Powder still works against explicitly inorganic beings, so no. Also, in the anime, Sleep Powder's shown as sleep induced via touch.

 

[Buttersamuri]

And I thought Robin vs Sly took long

 

[00potato]

The Ikon suit won't due much since he can't hurt him with the reflection (Speed difference.) So again, another moot point you somehow believe is useful. Also what stops him from mimicking a sword attack he would penetrate it with ease since, according to you blades and Guns can penetrate through hard material that can tank his attacks 2 times over even when sharp objects haven't penetrated it before. (I don't even need to explain why this argument is nonsense.

The flash scan clearly has him responding to the flash running (he activated the explosives right after he ran.) it is just an outlier speed feat. Again, moot.

Do you have any arguments that haven't been addressed or can't be debunked by reminding you of the stat difference.


Also sleep powdergg (I forgot he had that. Thanks Weekly.)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sleep Powder was in response to the notion of pokemon not being knocked out by sleep drugs lol Bonsly doesnt have it

Still works completely different from a tranq dart tho seeing as it works on literally inanimate objects

 

[00potato]

I thought you meant that he has it in the anime or something. Scratch that point, he stills wins via stat amps and mimicking Slade's moves.

 

[Psychomaster35]

You cant really mimic a gun, though. Even so, the gun would not kill Slade due to the AP difference at the start, and not to mention Slade's skill. Remember this is a wild Bonsly, and whatever move it does is rather random. It will not really start with its best move, only a random move of what it knows, unless it is trained.

That said, Slade can also keep up with the Flash, who is much faster than Slade. So, speed amps wouldnt really matter when hes kept up with beings faster than him... and I know speed is equalized, but he kept up with faster opponents regardless.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Except there are pokemon that have gun-like attacks that can be mimicked

Slade keeping up with the Flash is a massive outlier

 

[00potato]

Yes he can, mimic works on Pokémon like Genesect, Magearna and Klink (3-4rth time I mentioned these Pokémon.) It also works on tool using Pokémon such as Decidueye and steel type moves. so it will work on gun 101%. This let's Bonsly bypass the Ikon suit even if he doesn't spam speed amps.

It probably would start with the moves that are literally, looking at his opponent and tensing up slightly (two of his amps that invalidate all of his moves.) He would do this throughout the battle because they are basic actions anyone would do. His other moves invalidate Slade's moveset once he amps. (Counter damages Slade more then him, Sucker punch is faster, etc.)


The flash? The only explanationS for those scans are either The flash can't blitz Slade like Bonsly after his speed effecting moves. (change his speed then.) or that, like many things in DC comics (An extremely old company with many authors, timelines, and storylines.) an outlier. Either way it doesn't matter, speed is equal. So blitz is still valid.