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Butters Brackets: Round 12 Deathstroke vs Bonsly

Bonsly has Rock Polish? If so then he blitzes with Rock Tomb debuffs and Slade can't hurt him once he gets looked at a few times.

This is a borderline stomp for Bonsly when you consider everything else.
 
This is SBA, and therefore, just like last time, Bonsly only has its level up moves due to being wild. And Rock Polish isnt one of them (its a move only learned by breeding).
 
And furthermore, as a baby Pokemon, would it really be skilled enough to do the move as a first resort?
 
Psychomaster35 said:
This is SBA, and therefore, just like last time, Bonsly only has its level up moves due to being wild. And Rock Polish isnt one of them (its a move only learned by breeding).
Click to expand...
Pokemon get all moves they can learn naturally as per SBA, that means breeging moves, tcg moves, and moves from games like GO
 
He isn't an idiot and must have been through many battles since he has all of his level up moves, so he would likely know some semblance of strategy.
 
Okay, from what I'm reading here and on the profiles is that Bonsly starts outside of the range he needs to be effective in, speed starts equalized, and Deathstroke starts with AP advantage (around 2.7 times advantage). So what stops Slade from shooting or blowing up Bonsly on sight before he can get in range and use his abilities?
 
Pretty sure Slade will go all out anyways and aim at its more vulnerable parts, such as the eyes, to blind it. And the AI would tell its weaknesses, not just limited to water, but any other type weaknesses such as Fighting (Martial Arts) or Steel (his staff).
 
Yeah, that and when I look at the situation presented here, Bonsly is trying to close the distance. Deathstroke is going for the kill. Looking at the situation (range, speed equalization, AP difference and differing objectives), it shows that Slade is the one holding the overall advantage and seeing as how he's a combat genius in DC, he's going to exploit it.

Okay, I've made up my mind. Although Bonsly has a good win-con, Slade for reasons above.
 
Slade doesn't have a 2.7 AP advantage though, Bonsly both tanks his feat and will lower his AP by 4 times upon looking at him. Slade can't hurt him. Bonsly's range is probably outdated anyway so his range is fine. Bonsly has speed amps and speed debuffs to help him dodge.

Slades combat knowledge will only get him so far when he has never dealt with anything like bonsly.
 
A street level pistol and knife can do a lot of damage to a wall level elephant due to piercing damage (I'm not gonna actually be linking evidence of that, for obvious reasons), and the gap in power between the former and latter is in the hundreds. I'm just pointing out that Slade ca damage the pokemon. Honestly, if we're making the argument that Slade can't damage Bonsly at all, you shouldn't be voting for him to begin with, you should be calling this a stomp match.

Also, I'm confused on the pokemon page. I think the keys are mixed up in multiple areas and there's no label saying which is which.
 
If you aren't even willing to give evidence for your claims, people won't take your claims seriously.
 
You're free to look up that stuff for yourself, or ask me to link it to you on another site. I'm not risking a ban from FANDOM just because of a fictional debate.
 
Look, if you are gonna try and sidestep a basic element of debates to make your point (providing evidence when asked.) then your point is pretty much moot.
 
I see the images, but I fail to see any evidence of what caused them, just elephants corpses. So I don't see how it helps your case. Also even if they would pierce elephants, would they pierce a hard rocklike substance?

Anyway even if they could hurt him he could amp and dodge, if he gets into melee, he pretty much wins since Slade can't really hurt him and the stat difference is massive. Counter and Sucker punch shut down most other options.
 
I stated that the ammunition rounds used against them were AK-47 bullets, specifically 7.62x39mm. Those were the bullet cases that were found at the scene of the poaching crime.

Screenshot 2020-03-08 at 9.37.12 AM
The hard rock-like pokemon isn't dozens of times more durable than the bullets and swords like the elephant was against those bullets. Even arguing for it to be ten times stronger is a big if. So yes, the piercing damage would still work, honestly pretty easily.

Assuming Bonsly even gets the chance to be in range, (which reminder that Deathstroke has accuracy rivaling that of Deadshot), Slade is an expert and highly experienced Swordsman with a ton of experience in CQC, as well as experiencing in fighting multiple supernatural foes. Not to mention the Ikon suit would absorb the kinetic energy of the melee attacks of even Superman's degree of power, only to reflect it back at the attacker.

And if we're being honest here, experience and skill really is a powerful factor here. Deathstroke is actually 100 times more likely to use his highly versatile equipment and abilities in ways to beat Bonsly, and apparently by the comments above, Bonsly has little to no experience at all, especially not with someone like Slade
 
In order to counter pierce damage, you would have to be several dozen times stronger at the very least. Considering a street level pistol can still pierce people or animals past 100,000 joules. Which is an immensely massive difference. The difference bonsly abd deathstroke would having assume Bonsly even immediately opened with it, let alone spam if 4 times, is still not large enough of a power gap to nullify pierce damage from even the smaller guns. Let alone larger more powerful ones such as an assault rifle. This also is kinda treating Bonsly like its an expert on combat who would know when to use abilities at what perfect times. I mean, really, why would Bonsly immediately go for spamming the ability? Let alone open with that spam. Bonsly in the wild don't go randomly spamming it. They may use it once or twice in a battle, but they don't downright spam it all at once.
 
You stated it but all you have shown are a bullet and a corpse with no context or evidence of what caused the damage. You just asserted that they are connected without evidence.

How is he gonna hit Bonsly when he is 4-8 times faster (Rock Polish/Rock Tomb.) and 4 times more durable? He can also reflect damage and can interrupt his actions with counter and sucker punch so that point is moot.

Bonsly does have experience, he has all of his level up moves, meaning that he has been in many scraps before.

His experience won't hurt him since CQC against a small armless rock that is better statistically then you in every way while being about a foot tall and isn't like anything he has dealt with before.

Skill only gets you so far when your opponent has a massive stat advantage and can interrupt most of your moves
 
All which I remind you don't seem in character to spam these attacks. Especially all at once. Debatable even open with it.

And you don't have any evidence to back up a gun wouldn't pierce them. We are using the logic that Street level Guns have Wall level piercing capabilities. Two literal different tiers. Two people on the same tier, and Bonsly isn't even Twice as strong and durable. Not even twice. A pistol is going to laugh at him and go right through him. Blindly swatting at this doesn't make it go away. Pierce damage is fully capable of breaking through someone not even twice as durable as slade. Even a past 5 times different isn't enough to stop a bullet
 
Most Bonsly in the wild aren't as experienced as one who has fought to the point of having all of his moves. He will know his way around a fight by then. He isn't an idiot


Tearful Look is definitely a go to, it is just looking at the opponet tearfully, Bonsly literally does that all the time.

If Bonsly needs to dodge something, he will speed amp or debuff.

Most of his moves give him an edge, even the non amp ones.

Rock throw flinces.

Rock Slide is a large AOE and is harder to dodge.

Mimic and Copycat let him use any of Slade's moves, so he can also absorb his damage and Reflect it, or shoot at him.

Sucker Punch is really fast and would interrupt most of slades actions without the 4-8 times amp.

Since he gets egg moves he can increase his durability by 4 also along with the 4 times debuff (which is already tank worthy.) so even the gun will struggle to hurt him, assuming he hits the massively faster and far smaller Bonsly.
 
00potato said:
You stated it but all you have shown are a bullet and a corpse with no context or evidence of what caused the damage. You just asserted that they are connected without evidence.
How is he gonna hit Bonsly when he is 4-8 times faster (Rock Polish/Rock Tomb.) and 4 times more durable? He can also reflect damage and can interrupt his actions with counter and sucker punch so that point is moot.

Bonsly does have experience, he has all of his level up moves, meaning that he has been in many scraps before.

His experience won't hurt him since CQC against a small armless rock that is better statistically then you in every way while being about a foot tall and isn't like anything he has dealt with before.

Skill only gets you so far when your opponent has a massive stat advantage and can interrupt most of your moves
Click to expand...
What, are you expecting me to fetch an video of illegal poaching now? You're being ridiculous now, come to reason.

From what I've seen from the move Rock Tomb, it slows opponents down via encasing them in rock. Deathstroke has fought with Earth manipulators before, like Terra, he's well aware to expect an attack like this coming. I don't see why you're bringing up the fact that Bonsly can reflect damage as if that compares to Deathstroke's attack Reflection (being released as a shockwave, mind you) being potent enough to hurt Superma . It's basically gonna ping pong until Bonsly gets overwhelmed.

Except there is no true stat advantage. Deathstroke's kinetic energy absorption minimizes any reliable physical damage Bonsly can do.

And Bonsly has no experienced against an assassin like Deathstroke, whereas, to repeat, Deathstroke has experience against an Earth manipulator like Bonsly.

Edit: And as a reminder, I did bring up that Deathstroke actually uses his large arsenal of equipment.
 
Also. Even if we assume it's a go to, still not an in character Spam move. He may utilize it when he sees he may need it, but often times, it would be too late before he would get to use it. Your looking at the fight like Slade is only going to be that much slower and weaker when realistically, Bonsly wouldn't spam it like that. Deathstroke would get a stat cut, maybe twice. But all four times is extremely unlikely and not happening more times than not.

Plus: in order to use these attacks, it leaves itself open for attack. Deathstroke coudk why hit by it, but also has the time for slade to attack him.
 
If you can't give evidence for your claims, even if you have an alibi, then it still is invalid. There is no excuse for not giving evidence for claims. If you can't find it, then it is no better then pulling it out of your ass. Excuses don't make an argument better, just provide an out to hide a lack of evidence.

Bonsly can mimic the Attack Reflection with Mimic or Copycat. So that is moot

There is a stat difference, the speed gap of 4-8 times (Blitz worthy By the Way.) and Slade only has one way of hurting him, which can be usd

There are many Pokémon with moves like Slade, Many Pokémon have reflection like Counter/Bide, many Pokémon have long range attacks, many Pokémon even have Bladed weapons, and almost all of them fight frequently, so while Slade is more skilled, he isn't bringing much to the table that is new.

I doubt he has ever encountered a something like Bonsly, a small magic rock that is blitz-worthy levels of faster and can tank most of his attacks. He can even punch without arms for god's sake. Terra isn't that much like him except for the Rocks. He can just summon the Rocks above Slade, does Terra do that?
 
What moves leave him open?


Can people stop with this "In Character." Downplay. It is just an excuse to ignore arguments rather then face them directly by treating all characters like idiots without logic or decision making abilities.

I already explained why he is definitely getting Tearful looked 4 times anyway.

He isn't an Idiot, has been in many fights before, and this is a fight to the death. if he can amp himself to ensure a smoother victory, then there is no reason why he couldn't. The amps have little to no downside, especially since, upon doing so, he can avoid Slades attacks with ease and eventually blitz and Tank.
 
Ok. Chill the heck out. No need to get that kind of attitude again. First of all

What they do in character matters extremely. Don't act like it doesn't. Someone could easily have Fate manipulation, but just not use it in character, thus it couldn't be considered.

Talking about us ignoring arguments, no. I'm bringing a problem that argument has. Which is it flat out isn't in character to start spamming that. No wild Bonsly does that. I'm facing your issues head to head. Your just refusing to look at the clear issue. It's out of character. Heck, a big reason is because of the amount of PP they have. Which is the only way they can use such abilities.

That's not how it works. Tearful look has to be specifically activated. It's not just used by looking. It's a special ability that requires Bonsly to specifically activate before it takes effect. Not to mention, the amount of PP it uses would basically drain any other special move Bonsly could do. Same with his other attacks, which he has limited PP. no way he is getting all of that, and attacking too. All these great abilities basically drains his PP, and leaves him unable to do anything else. He isn't getting all these special abilities before running out. So yes there is a huge downside to these abilities. Which is it limits what he actually can do.
 
No wild Bonsly has all of the experience that this Bonsly has or all of the moves.

The fight will be long over before he runs out of PP due to the stat advantage and mimicry. and if it is long then the chances of him amping to blitz are massively increased even if he doesn't start with it.

Each move has its own PP, so it wouldn't matter how many times he uses Tearful look as it will stop being useful before he runs out, same for all the other amps and debuffs that aren't attacks. Tearful look doesn't require much to be activated, the description is just "the Pokémon gets Teary-eyed." So yeah, he does just need to cry like he always does.

Slade will get destroyed in a few hits/ reflects before he can stall for time.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Bonsly has a passive ability that prevents recoil damage so
Click to expand...

It does reflect as a full shockwave force rather than magically returning damage though, hence the explosion on the ship .

But I'll play with this idea for a moment: Bonsly wouldn't be able to hurt Slade physically due to the passive kinetic energy absorption of the suit. Deathstroke's physical strikes can still damage Bonsly unless he activates said ability and successfully hits Deathstroke with it, in which all that does is make physically punching the other to death moot. Then we gotta consider the fact that Deathstroke's lifting strength would likely be able to help him out of the trap.

So Deathstroke's various arsenal and lifting strength would eventually give him the win.

00potato said:
If you can't give evidence for your claims, even if you have an alibi, then it still is invalid. There is no excuse for not giving evidence for claims. If you can't find it, then it is no better then pulling it out of your ass. Excuses don't make an argument better, just provide an out to hide a lack of evidence.

Bonsly can mimic the Attack Reflection with Mimic or Copycat. So that is moot

There is a stat difference, the speed gap of 4-8 times (Blitz worthy By the Way.) and Slade only has one way of hurting him, which can be usd

There are many Pokémon with moves like Slade, Many Pokémon have reflection like Counter/Bide, many Pokémon have long range attacks, many Pokémon even have Bladed weapons, and almost all of them fight frequently, so while Slade is more skilled, he isn't bringing much to the table that is new.

I doubt he has ever encountered a something like Bonsly, a small magic rock that is blitz-worthy levels of faster and can tank most of his attacks. He can even punch without arms for god's sake. Terra isn't that much like him except for the Rocks. He can just summon the Rocks above Slade, does Terra do that?
Click to expand...
That kind of logic is ridiculous. It's like one believing the core of the moon is made of cheese, and expecting me to fly to the moon and grab it to give it to them, else the counterargument is invalid. This denial is making no sense at all, you don't even need to look up gore to know that elephant poachers are commonly known to use light machine guns and assault rifles when hunting elephants. And all three of those links were AK-47s, which I've stated on the discord. I am not going to hunt through the dark web to find videos of illegal activity just to satisfy your stubbornness. My point stands until you make a reasonable counter-argument, because this is now becoming a game of denial on your end.

The attack reflection is the technology of the suit itself, where is proof that Bonsly can copy that?

Screenshot 2020-03-08 at 11.26.11 AM
All pokemon descriptions of Rock Polish is "a move that reduces drag", meaning that the only real stat boost it upgrades is the attack speed of Bonsly, not combat&reaction speed in general. And Slade still has several ways of hurting Bonsly, the main two being the piercing bullets and swords, the fact that it, according to the comments above, is weak to metal, which Deathstroke's staff is made of, and Deathstroke's AI can scan and point out, and then there's the multiple forms of incapacitations with his staff, concussion grenades, and tranq bullets.
What you're assuming is that Bonsly has tangoed with Pokemon with all the abilities of Slade before. All we know is that it's 'experienced' enough to be able to use its moves, but this isn't a sandbox game protagonist, we can't just say that it had 'prep time' against the right pokemon to go up against Deathstroke, let alone run into a pokemon who has all the abilities of Deathstroke simultaneously.

Have you ever seen DC Comics? Deathstroke is always getting himself in a situation where he's outclassed in speed and strength, sometimes even abilities simultaneously, and still managing to get his way out. And this isn't with wild pokemon, this is with multiple average, if not above-average human level intellect.

Terra can actually affect the rocks below and behind Slade just as easily, and lets not get started against fire manipulators who can constantly do the same thing. Everything Bonsly can do, Deathstroke has seen it before, and his Genius level intellect makes sure to wrap that up to his advantage.
 
So now it is my fault that you made claims that even you admit that you cannot back up or are unwilling to? Really man?

He hasn't dealt with all of slades abilities at once but he has dealt with many similar things, each with abilities comparable to slades and many he lacks. So nothing he has is that special since bonsly can mimic them.

Terra can't summon rocks above him like Bonsly so his experience will actually hurt him since he would not expect that from any other earth manipulator since it didn't happen to him.

Mimic and Copycat can mimic attacks from technological Pokémon such as Genesect, Magerna, Klink, and a few others.

Reducing drag would increase speed though as it reduces what slows you down, even if you were right about that Bonsly would still have the edge. A reaction/ attack speed amp still lets him dodge or block most of not all of slades attacks and overwhelm him in melee when combined with sucker punch and mimic/ copycat to mimic the

Does the suit protect him from blades attacks or bullets? Bonsly can mimic those too and with how long those last he would get to try it eventually.

This isn't just a strength difference like Slade has dealt with, this is blitz/tank worthy difference. Has he dealt with people who can blitz him and tank most to all of his attacks? Has he dealt with that plus someone who can copy all of his moves and is literally about foot tall? How would tranqs work on a rock? How would explosions work when Bonsly resists the only two moves that are explosives and is 4-8 times more durable then slades attacks? How would a staff even hit him when he has a massive stat advantage (Blitz plus tanking everything with half of his stat changes.)
 
I'll remind you your making an unrealistic situation of spamming abilities they wouldn't, and them using way more PP then they have access too. Their PP is limited and can't use Rock polish, Mimic, copy cat, Ect, all in the same battle. Those attacks severely drain PP just with one usage. Let alone trying to spam it several times. Slade wouldn't be limited to all of these as this aren't really going to happen, both OOC, and require far too much PP.
 
The PP is no where near as limited as you claim it is. He has 15-25 on most moves, he won't need more then 4-6 for each amp/ debuff to get it to max power. So that point was completely pulled out of your ass.

I already debunked the "In character Downplay." He isn't an idiot and must have been in far more fights then your example Bonsly, so the argument is invalid. In a fight to the death, nobody with any amount of combat experience would avoid something so obviously beneficial. There is no downside to the amps, and they are the most reliable way of protecting himself since they consist of short and simple actions. (Looking at him, summoning rocks. Stiffening the muscles. etc.)

From there the stat difference is too much for Slade to handle. He won't need more then a few hits from a few moves to take him out since he blitzes and tanks.
 
Yea no. Stop trying to dodge the issue. That's 100 percent wrong. His stat decreasing cost 20 PP per usage. His stat Amps also need 20 PP. not just 4-6. "Pull it out of my ass". Drop that BS right now. Being needlessly aggressive, while trying to dodge the main point, and your point not even being right. These moves require that much PP to activate. And that's problem of how much PP they actually need to use also doesn't magically go away. To pull off all this debugging and such would drain their PP. and wouldn't have enough in the first place to even activate most all of them. And they can also be avoided.

No you didn't. Saying he isn't an idiot doesn't magically make you right. Someone doesn't have to be an idiot not to use something in character. Those two surprisingly aren't connected. I could have Fate manipulation. And I don't have to be an idiot for me not to use it in character.

And your tanks argument is still wrong. You entirely ignore pierce damage. You are wrong here. It doesn't matter that Bonsly is almost twice as durable. It wouldn't matter if he was 5 times more durable. A gun pierces. Bonsly is not tanking a bullet. That bucket will go through bonsly with little issue
 
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