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SSJ Broly is unknown, SSJ FP Broly would win no problem
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Broly V.S Jiren 2 Electric Boogaloo
- Thread starter Kople700
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I don't know why people are sayinf this is FP broly even though it has clearly given in the title that it is SSJ Broly
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Doesn't Base Jiren scale to GoDs since he's the mortal stronger than GoDs? and isn't Full Power SSJ Broly comparable to the GoDs?
Therefore Full Power Jiren should stomp Full Power SSJ Broly, right?
Therefore Full Power Jiren should stomp Full Power SSJ Broly, right?
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Not every GODMickey1940 said:
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and none of the GoDs are stated to be stronger/weaker than onther GoDs in the animeZERO7772 said:
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shouldn't we default the GoDs to somewhat scale to each other then? If there's no evidence proving that any GoD is stronger than the others, then it would make logical sense to scale all 12 of them as comparable to one another. Simply replying with "no evidence is given saying that they scale to each other either" makes no senseZERO7772 said:
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GoDs are relatively the same in power but not exactly equal, we know they are relative in power because of the statement from whis and vados about the brawl champa and beerus got into. We know they aren't exactly equal in every respect because beerus once lost that arm-wrestling match.
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that's exactly what I'm saying. None of the GoDs are stated to be drastically stronger than any other GoD. Therefore, treating every GoD as comparable to each other is perfectly sensibleDTG499 said:
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shouldn't we default the GoDs to somewhat scale to each other then? If there's no evidence proving that any GoD is stronger than the others, then it would make logical sense to scale all 12 of them as comparable to one another. Simply replying with "no evidence is given saying that they scale to each other either" makes no sense
Oh Boi, you will LOVE Toaru verse page.
Oh Boi, you will LOVE Toaru verse page.
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The arm wrestling match was used as an example that the gods are relative in power, as in one GoD wouldn't break the other GoDs arm in an arm wrestling match. Same with the quick little match we saw with the 4 gods who were exempt from the tournament. We have more evidence that GoDs are relative in strength than to the total of zero evidence that there is a vast difference in strength between them.
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Winning or losing an arm wrestling match period is indication of relative arm strength, if beerus lost because because the other GoD had better technique(like you implied) that is just further validation of my point. If whis said the other GoD broke beerus's arm in the match then yes that would be proof that there is a vast difference in their prowess. The only thing you have in contest to that is the lack of direct comparison between beerus and Belmont. To which I can say is that you have a lack of comparison that they are in fact vastly different in terms of power from one another. The fact is we have more moments and statements saying that GoDs are comparable to each other than they are wildly different.
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Tally so far for GoDs being comparable
•Whis and vados saying when two Gods of Destruction fight they'll destroy each other's universes •Witnessing the 4 GoDs fight each on a relatively equal level pre TOP •Beerus just losing in a arm wrestling match and not just getting his arm brutalized
•Whis and vados saying when two Gods of Destruction fight they'll destroy each other's universes •Witnessing the 4 GoDs fight each on a relatively equal level pre TOP •Beerus just losing in a arm wrestling match and not just getting his arm brutalized
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Using off-screen arm wrestling to create a scaling chain in anime is weak at best.The anime have this one off mention and then it doesn't touch upon it again while the manga actually expand on that so I don't buy scaling the gods like.
Belmod mentioned that Toppo is no different than a GoD, yet, he got his ass kicked by Vegeta, does that mean Vegeta is Beerus tier? Based on your logic yeah. I mean, there is nothing in the show that contradicts and the show never touches on the idea of Vegeta vs Beerus so saying Vegeta beats A GoD IS objectively true to some extent right? It's not.
Lets give you benefit of the doubt and says the gods are comparable, then what? Beerus could solo all of them theoretically with skills alone.
Yeah Jiren is stronger than Belmod but to what extent exactly? We don't know that.
His asspull power up isn't exactly a huge power boost either given what we saw. Base Jiren was SOMEWHAT keeping up with UI Goku and after he powred up he BARELY overpowered him, by this site rules his power up isn't even a 1.5x boost.
Belmod mentioned that Toppo is no different than a GoD, yet, he got his ass kicked by Vegeta, does that mean Vegeta is Beerus tier? Based on your logic yeah. I mean, there is nothing in the show that contradicts and the show never touches on the idea of Vegeta vs Beerus so saying Vegeta beats A GoD IS objectively true to some extent right? It's not.
Lets give you benefit of the doubt and says the gods are comparable, then what? Beerus could solo all of them theoretically with skills alone.
Yeah Jiren is stronger than Belmod but to what extent exactly? We don't know that.
His asspull power up isn't exactly a huge power boost either given what we saw. Base Jiren was SOMEWHAT keeping up with UI Goku and after he powred up he BARELY overpowered him, by this site rules his power up isn't even a 1.5x boost.
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I think it's really hard to compare both, I don't take the statement regarding Broly and Beerus being comparable seriously and neither the guides. We only have feats for both characters and statements.
Base Jiren had fought 2 SSBKK20 tiers and 2 SSB tiers casually. And is also stated to be above Belmod, whom is comparable or a bit superior to Beerus. His LB power is faaaaar above that.
SSJ Broly stomped two Super Saiyan Blues and Frieza. I think Jiren is far more impressive in his Base, let alone LB mode.
Though comparing FP Broly and Jiren is way harder.
I still stand by the fact MUI and LB should be 2-C by virtue of Base Jiren surpassing Beerus.
Base Jiren had fought 2 SSBKK20 tiers and 2 SSB tiers casually. And is also stated to be above Belmod, whom is comparable or a bit superior to Beerus. His LB power is faaaaar above that.
SSJ Broly stomped two Super Saiyan Blues and Frieza. I think Jiren is far more impressive in his Base, let alone LB mode.
Though comparing FP Broly and Jiren is way harder.
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Yeah the off screen wrestlig match is weak but its better than zero amount of evidence that goes to the contrary. Jiren, goku, GoD toppo, ssb evolution vegeta, beerus and belmont are comparable to one another. Not exactly the same level but their difference in their power is by no means vast. The only reason beerus would be able to beat all of them(except MUI goku LB jiren) is because he has an incomplete form of ultra instinct.ZERO7772 said:
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I'm only gonna use statements that are actually in the show.
FP Jiren is perhaps stronger than Belmod and LSSJ Broly is probably stronger than Beerus. Belmod beat Beerus in an arm wrestle but Beerus states that he only ever lost once at arm wrestling. This likely puts Beerus a good bit above Belmod and likely the other Destroyers because of him never loosing. Plus Whis never refutes Beerus as he was just teasing him especially when Beerus says "don't go saying that".
So by the looks of it LSSJ Broly has a slight edge against FP Jiren. However LB Jiren has the AP advantage but the gap between him and Broly isn't that big. The fight would look something like this but Broly would start adapting to an insane degree. Not only would he get stronger but learn to fight better. Jiren's only way to win is to incap Broly, but he's unable to do that, due to the small gap, and Jiren doesn't start all out in character.
I vote Broly.
FP Jiren is perhaps stronger than Belmod and LSSJ Broly is probably stronger than Beerus. Belmod beat Beerus in an arm wrestle but Beerus states that he only ever lost once at arm wrestling. This likely puts Beerus a good bit above Belmod and likely the other Destroyers because of him never loosing. Plus Whis never refutes Beerus as he was just teasing him especially when Beerus says "don't go saying that".
So by the looks of it LSSJ Broly has a slight edge against FP Jiren. However LB Jiren has the AP advantage but the gap between him and Broly isn't that big. The fight would look something like this but Broly would start adapting to an insane degree. Not only would he get stronger but learn to fight better. Jiren's only way to win is to incap Broly, but he's unable to do that, due to the small gap, and Jiren doesn't start all out in character.
I vote Broly.
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While I do take goku's statement of broly being stronger than beerus somewhat seriously because goku does have an understanding of beerus's AP BUT there is no way that goku knows the extent to which beerus can use ultra-instinct, so I can accept the statement alluding to AP but not to skill. So, when it comes to AP yeah, I can say that they are around the same maybe jiren is a bit more but broly would close the AP gap quickly, whether broly would close the skill gap just as quickly is questionable. To say that he would be able to copy jiren's analytical prediction would be an NLF since it isn't a visable technique like what he's been shown to copy I don't see broly being able to do it. Also, by the very fact that we are using Limit Breaker Jiren would mean that he is in fact, starting all out.
I vote Jiren.
I vote Jiren.
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Even with Jiren going all out, he doesn't have enough power to one shot.
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Of course he doesn't, it really comes down to if it would be in character for Jiren to go for the in cap right away. Which I believe it is, I'll explain why. Jiren has a heavy weight of losses and sacrifices on his psyche that vindicate him becoming stronger and being the strongest. He has lived most of his life believing that power is the end all be all, the only true purpose. He achieved his goal of becoming the strongest in the multiverse and he KNOWS it. He didn't believe for one second anyone would become stronger than him. When he was fighting Goku and Vegeta in the Tournament of Power he was drawing out their maximum potential to feed his ego and prove that his path to power, his purpose, is right and that it was all worth it. Once Goku started to truly challenging him all that weight in his mind begins to crumble under him and we see his ego shatter. Jiren after that becomes more vicious, his life goal becomes an after thought, he changes into a seeker of destruction of that which has proven to properly test his outlook as being wrong. Limit Breaker Jiren is WAY more likely to go for an incap than his later form.
We do however have proof that even his later state of mind is keen to go for the in cap immediately if the situation deems it to be necessary. Look at how he treated Kale and why, she was completely lost from all forms of reason and her only line of sight was set on destruction to everything and everyone around her, exactly like Broly.
There is no doubt in my mind Jiren would go for the incap immediately on Broly.
We do however have proof that even his later state of mind is keen to go for the in cap immediately if the situation deems it to be necessary. Look at how he treated Kale and why, she was completely lost from all forms of reason and her only line of sight was set on destruction to everything and everyone around her, exactly like Broly.
There is no doubt in my mind Jiren would go for the incap immediately on Broly.
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In order to incap, you'd at least should be able to one shot.
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LB Jiren can pretty much one shot SSJ Broly.
LB Jiren >< MUI Goku >>>> Base Jiren > GoD level.
While for Broly it goes like:
LSSJ Broly > GoD level >>>> SSJ Broly. You can argue Base Jiren and LSSJ Broly are relative tbh.
And the difference between SSJ and LSSJ Broly is close but not kinda as wide as the one between Base and SSJG.
LB Jiren will go serious from the start unlike Base Jiren, he won't take any chances and just defeat Broly. Broly won't have any time to adapt, especially when the difference is just big.
LB Jiren >< MUI Goku >>>> Base Jiren > GoD level.
While for Broly it goes like:
LSSJ Broly > GoD level >>>> SSJ Broly. You can argue Base Jiren and LSSJ Broly are relative tbh.
And the difference between SSJ and LSSJ Broly is close but not kinda as wide as the one between Base and SSJG.
LB Jiren will go serious from the start unlike Base Jiren, he won't take any chances and just defeat Broly. Broly won't have any time to adapt, especially when the difference is just big.
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Why are you guys even assuming PTSD jiren is much stronger than base one? He kept up somewhat with UI Goku in base and in his power up form barley had the upper hand. Even with w@nk, it's a 2x boost at best
Jiren isn't one shooting anybody. Gogeta is rated higher than him and he didn't one shot Broly.
Jiren isn't one shooting anybody. Gogeta is rated higher than him and he didn't one shot Broly.
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This ridiculous belief that GoDs are all around the same level seriously needs to stop. Belmod and Champa are both way weaker than Beerus, and it's likely that others such as Sidra and Helles are weaker based on their interactions with Frieza. Toriyama oversees Toyotaro's manga, with Beerus stomping all of the other GoDs by himself.
The match between three GoDs in the anime was also pathetic compared to the display by many of the other fighters in the tournament, including even Toppo.
Toppo lost to Vegeta and couldn't put down 17 or Frieza as a GoD, so he sure as hell isn't as strong as Beerus. ESPECIALLY when the director of the anime stated that SSBE Vegeta is as strong as KKX20 Goku Blue whereas SS Broly should be 40-50x Goku Blue.
To add further, Frieza (who was conscious when Jiren fought KKX20 Goku Blue, SSBE Vegeta and Android 17 at the same and stomped them) claimed SS Broly was too powerful for anyone to defeat, meaning SS Broly is at least stronger than that level of power from Jiren and grew stronger against SS Gogeta.
The scaling of power goes more like:
LB Jiren > FPSS Broly >/= Beerus > Jiren >> Belmod > SSBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > Three GoDs ? Helles ? Sidra
If we go based on the scaling for Goku it goes something like:
UI Goku ? LB Jiren >> Jiren > UIS3 Goku >> UIS2 Goku > KKX20 Goku Blue >> Goku Blue > UIS1 Goku >> KKX20 Goku Blue (Pre-UIS) >> Goku Blue (Pre-UIS)
If we use the actual statements and feats presented in the actual script, we know that Champa was surprised into falling over by Hit and KKX10 Goku glaring at him, and we know Champa can't even perceive Dyspo when Frieza clearly can. We will also go based on the accepted scaling of UIS being at least 40x Blue. So if we rearrange the scaling with this in mind we can claim:
UI Goku ? LB Jiren >> Jiren > UIS3 Goku > SS Broly > Belmod ? UIS2 Goku > X20 Goku Blue > GoD Toppo >> Goku Blue >> Pre-UIS X20 Goku Blue > Champa > Pre-UIS Goku Blue ? Sidra ? Helles
Then we can consider the Gogeta scaling and come to the conclusion that:
SSB Gogeta >> LB Jiren >> Jiren > SS Broly = SS Gogeta > Belmod > GoD Toppo >> Champa
SS = 50x. SSG surpasses SS3. SSB is SSG x SS. We don't know the multiplier of SS3 but we know SS2 is over 2x SS, so I'll claim SSG is 4x SS (severe lowball).
200 x 50 = 4000x, meaning SSB Gogeta is 4000x SS Gogeta and SS Broly at the absolute maximum lowball. We also know that Beerus is as strong or stronger than FPSS Broly (and no, your headcanons regarding Beerus has no basis. This is what is stated and acknowledge in-universe by the cast and script).
Post-UIS2 Goku surpasses UIS1 Goku.
UIS is at least 40x Blue.
UIS1 Goku = At least 40x Pre-UIS Blue
Post-UIS1 Goku = at least over 10x Pre-UIS Blue (Goku fought SS Kefla in Blue despite being exhausted, and was able to injure her with KK Blue. SS Kefla is stated to rival the Spirit Bomb, which should surpass KKX20 Goku Blue)
UIS2 Goku = At least over 400x Pre-UIS Blue (40 x 10)
Post-UIS2 Goku = At least over 40x Pre-UIS Blue (surpasses UIS1 Goku)
UIS3 Goku = At least over 1,600x Pre-UIS Blue (At least 40 x At least 40)
Goku likely grew stronger from UIS3 + UI limit breaks, and the gap between UIS3 and Post-UIS2 Blue is at least 40x.
SS Broly is around 40-50x stronger than a Goku that should be much stronger than that, meaning SS Broly scales to UIS3 Goku and the gap between SSB Gogeta and SS Gogeta is absolute minimum 4000x, and considering Broly tanked numerous hits from a casual Gogeta we can claim FPSS Broly is likely somewhere in the venue of 1000-2000x SS.
If ALL of scaling and logic above, the scaling I come to is:
SSB Gogeta >> (Likely 2x Gap) FPSS Broly >/= (Probably surpasses) Beerus >> Jiren > SS Broly >/= UIS3 Goku (Was unable to escape Jiren's shockwaves) > Belmod > GoD Toppo > Champa
The match between three GoDs in the anime was also pathetic compared to the display by many of the other fighters in the tournament, including even Toppo.
Toppo lost to Vegeta and couldn't put down 17 or Frieza as a GoD, so he sure as hell isn't as strong as Beerus. ESPECIALLY when the director of the anime stated that SSBE Vegeta is as strong as KKX20 Goku Blue whereas SS Broly should be 40-50x Goku Blue.
To add further, Frieza (who was conscious when Jiren fought KKX20 Goku Blue, SSBE Vegeta and Android 17 at the same and stomped them) claimed SS Broly was too powerful for anyone to defeat, meaning SS Broly is at least stronger than that level of power from Jiren and grew stronger against SS Gogeta.
The scaling of power goes more like:
LB Jiren > FPSS Broly >/= Beerus > Jiren >> Belmod > SSBE Vegeta > GoD Toppo > Three GoDs ? Helles ? Sidra
If we go based on the scaling for Goku it goes something like:
UI Goku ? LB Jiren >> Jiren > UIS3 Goku >> UIS2 Goku > KKX20 Goku Blue >> Goku Blue > UIS1 Goku >> KKX20 Goku Blue (Pre-UIS) >> Goku Blue (Pre-UIS)
If we use the actual statements and feats presented in the actual script, we know that Champa was surprised into falling over by Hit and KKX10 Goku glaring at him, and we know Champa can't even perceive Dyspo when Frieza clearly can. We will also go based on the accepted scaling of UIS being at least 40x Blue. So if we rearrange the scaling with this in mind we can claim:
UI Goku ? LB Jiren >> Jiren > UIS3 Goku > SS Broly > Belmod ? UIS2 Goku > X20 Goku Blue > GoD Toppo >> Goku Blue >> Pre-UIS X20 Goku Blue > Champa > Pre-UIS Goku Blue ? Sidra ? Helles
Then we can consider the Gogeta scaling and come to the conclusion that:
SSB Gogeta >> LB Jiren >> Jiren > SS Broly = SS Gogeta > Belmod > GoD Toppo >> Champa
SS = 50x. SSG surpasses SS3. SSB is SSG x SS. We don't know the multiplier of SS3 but we know SS2 is over 2x SS, so I'll claim SSG is 4x SS (severe lowball).
200 x 50 = 4000x, meaning SSB Gogeta is 4000x SS Gogeta and SS Broly at the absolute maximum lowball. We also know that Beerus is as strong or stronger than FPSS Broly (and no, your headcanons regarding Beerus has no basis. This is what is stated and acknowledge in-universe by the cast and script).
Post-UIS2 Goku surpasses UIS1 Goku.
UIS is at least 40x Blue.
UIS1 Goku = At least 40x Pre-UIS Blue
Post-UIS1 Goku = at least over 10x Pre-UIS Blue (Goku fought SS Kefla in Blue despite being exhausted, and was able to injure her with KK Blue. SS Kefla is stated to rival the Spirit Bomb, which should surpass KKX20 Goku Blue)
UIS2 Goku = At least over 400x Pre-UIS Blue (40 x 10)
Post-UIS2 Goku = At least over 40x Pre-UIS Blue (surpasses UIS1 Goku)
UIS3 Goku = At least over 1,600x Pre-UIS Blue (At least 40 x At least 40)
Goku likely grew stronger from UIS3 + UI limit breaks, and the gap between UIS3 and Post-UIS2 Blue is at least 40x.
SS Broly is around 40-50x stronger than a Goku that should be much stronger than that, meaning SS Broly scales to UIS3 Goku and the gap between SSB Gogeta and SS Gogeta is absolute minimum 4000x, and considering Broly tanked numerous hits from a casual Gogeta we can claim FPSS Broly is likely somewhere in the venue of 1000-2000x SS.
If ALL of scaling and logic above, the scaling I come to is:
SSB Gogeta >> (Likely 2x Gap) FPSS Broly >/= (Probably surpasses) Beerus >> Jiren > SS Broly >/= UIS3 Goku (Was unable to escape Jiren's shockwaves) > Belmod > GoD Toppo > Champa
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Was doing work in-between typing and kept having more thoughts that I wanted to note or write down into the argument. Probably not that well-constructed due to the irregular intervals that I was typing for.
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But man looking back at the scaling chain, Gogeta is so OP compared to everyone else below the angles. IIRC novel stated Gogeta was only using a "hint" of his true power near end of the fight with Broly who was stated to be Beerus level who seems to scale around UI Goku.
If you apply anime exlusive forms like SSBE and KK to Gogeta then the power creep becomes all the worse.
If you apply anime exlusive forms like SSBE and KK to Gogeta then the power creep becomes all the worse.
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Gogeta was explicitly holding back massively for most of the fight. I believe the novel claims that Gogeta fought seriously very briefly at the end when he was using the Kamehameha and nothing more. I think Broly probably surpasses SSG Gogeta though, considering Gogeta felt compelled to use SSB against FPSS Broly.
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Nothing whatsoever makes Belmod any weaker than Beerus. In fact he was compared and said to be possibly stronger than Beerus. I believe they should be equal.
His reactions on the ToP shouldn't say anything of his PL. Champa isn't massively weaker than Beerus as proven in the same show, they are on par with Beerus being slightly stronger.
Btw, The strongest guy Frieza fought before SSJ Broly was a Serious Jiren (the one who went 1v3 against SSBE, KKx20 and 17) and he wasn't near 100% because he powered one or two times more IIRC against UIO3 Goku to finish him off. So Frieza's statement holds nothing when talking about Jiren's max
100% Jiren >\< SSJFP Broly > GoDs >>> SSJ Broly > Base Jiren ("serious") >>>> SSBKKx20 tiers imo.
And Jiren can easily one shot here, this is SSJ Broly we are talking about. Not SSJFP the one who Gogeta fought, let's not forget Gogeta wasn't even serious to begin with.
His reactions on the ToP shouldn't say anything of his PL. Champa isn't massively weaker than Beerus as proven in the same show, they are on par with Beerus being slightly stronger.
Btw, The strongest guy Frieza fought before SSJ Broly was a Serious Jiren (the one who went 1v3 against SSBE, KKx20 and 17) and he wasn't near 100% because he powered one or two times more IIRC against UIO3 Goku to finish him off. So Frieza's statement holds nothing when talking about Jiren's max
100% Jiren >\< SSJFP Broly > GoDs >>> SSJ Broly > Base Jiren ("serious") >>>> SSBKKx20 tiers imo.
And Jiren can easily one shot here, this is SSJ Broly we are talking about. Not SSJFP the one who Gogeta fought, let's not forget Gogeta wasn't even serious to begin with.
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@CryoTheMayo
Ok, so just because helles and sidra are surprised at frieza's power that makes them weaker or at least comparable to him? The 9th's supreme kai saying that it wouldn't be easy for sidra to destroy frieza is based upon the fact that he survived the weak sauce hakai ball, we know its nowhere near sidra's full power because base goku survived it. Also, with that logic because beerus was surprised at jiren and UI goku it would mean that they surpassed beerus, right?
Well since toryiama has more direct involvement with the manga than the anime it should lead to reason that broly should be a 3-A, right? C'mon now if we are going to scale the movie to the anime's level of power, we can't cross scale the manga and anime. The true cannon for dragon ball super comes down to this, whatever is different from the anime and manga is non-cannon and whatever is the same is cannon.
I'm also going to need to see something that would lead me to believe that frieza was in fact conscious during that whole fight. I'm still kind of fuzzy on the reasoning we take that novel as verifiable cannon, links would be very appreciated to explain those two to me.
I mean neither Grand Zeno nor Champa were able to keep track of Dyspo, I'm pretty sure you understand where I am going with that.
I think whis's statement about jiren is way more solid than goku's statement about broly lets be real here, who knows way more about Gods of Destruction? I'm alright with taking goku's statement as a maybe, but people are placing the value on the words instead of who they are being spoken from. Yes probably>possibly but the possibly came from the guy who has been training mortals to become Gods of Destruction for eons and the probably came from the guy who just found out that GoDs even existed in the first place just a couple years ago. You can't not equate goku's quick progression in his training to his knowledge.
Overall the calcs are rock solid it's just the basis of who goes where in the equation that I question. Also, you wouldn't be able to use Kiao-Ken if you're scaling from the manga but I'm sure you know that.
Ok, so just because helles and sidra are surprised at frieza's power that makes them weaker or at least comparable to him? The 9th's supreme kai saying that it wouldn't be easy for sidra to destroy frieza is based upon the fact that he survived the weak sauce hakai ball, we know its nowhere near sidra's full power because base goku survived it. Also, with that logic because beerus was surprised at jiren and UI goku it would mean that they surpassed beerus, right?
Well since toryiama has more direct involvement with the manga than the anime it should lead to reason that broly should be a 3-A, right? C'mon now if we are going to scale the movie to the anime's level of power, we can't cross scale the manga and anime. The true cannon for dragon ball super comes down to this, whatever is different from the anime and manga is non-cannon and whatever is the same is cannon.
I'm also going to need to see something that would lead me to believe that frieza was in fact conscious during that whole fight. I'm still kind of fuzzy on the reasoning we take that novel as verifiable cannon, links would be very appreciated to explain those two to me.
I mean neither Grand Zeno nor Champa were able to keep track of Dyspo, I'm pretty sure you understand where I am going with that.
I think whis's statement about jiren is way more solid than goku's statement about broly lets be real here, who knows way more about Gods of Destruction? I'm alright with taking goku's statement as a maybe, but people are placing the value on the words instead of who they are being spoken from. Yes probably>possibly but the possibly came from the guy who has been training mortals to become Gods of Destruction for eons and the probably came from the guy who just found out that GoDs even existed in the first place just a couple years ago. You can't not equate goku's quick progression in his training to his knowledge.
Overall the calcs are rock solid it's just the basis of who goes where in the equation that I question. Also, you wouldn't be able to use Kiao-Ken if you're scaling from the manga but I'm sure you know that.
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