- 14,146
- 11,126
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Bringing back DBS Pretty Black Hole Legitimacy
- Thread starter Jaakor48
- Start date
- Status
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #42
Except these people were shown to control both the movement and the suction if the technique, not to mention that it's gravity and mode of creation is exactly like a black hole
They didn't show what happened when the rocks were sucked in, most black holes on fiction ate portrayed as a suction force, very rarely do they emphasize on spaghettify cation, basically there no proof that it does or doesn't, best we have is the ki blast
It glowing has been addressed in the OP, normal black holes have light around them. It only started crushing the arena when the fighters specifically had it do so, before that it was suspended in space and drawing everything towards it. The only issue is the heart shape which is basically an aesthetic difference, it had nearly every other property of a black hole. Even if it's not accepted as a "natural" black hole, it has the same mode of formation and gravitational effect as one, it is called one by the narrator, literally nothing on else in the universe naturally has the gravity to bend and prevent light from escaping
- 14,146
- 11,126
Yeah they do? We see them get sucked in, if they're being sucked in they should already be undergoing it to a degree.
I'm not talking about other shows atm, just DBZ.
If the best you have is the ki blast, then don't make the claim that there's spaghettification going on.
thetechmaster36
He/Him- 1,680
- 1,634
So like. . .are we gonna talk about the fact that it just sinks through the arena instead of sucking up the matter around it despite having done the same with small rubble pieces and 18's Ki Blast prior?
That's like, the most anti-black hole you can get. If it ain't sucking things up, it ain't a black hole.
So I disagree.
That's like, the most anti-black hole you can get. If it ain't sucking things up, it ain't a black hole.
So I disagree.
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #45
I mean, the opposite, could be said no? Are we going to ignore that it was acting like one, until it was used to sink?. It only sunk after the U2 fighters specifically controlled it and made it do that. It was sucking rubble and energy blasts just prior to that...and then they had it go downwards and it acted like a celestial body. I mean it's either a black hole or an artificially created celestial body that has the gravity equal to one or a gravity that can suck up mftl blasts
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #46
I have updated the OP and I believe I found a compromise. The main issue everyone has is that after it was controlled to attack U7, it didn't suck things up but acted as a dense body. If that's an issue so big that it annuls all other points despite it sucking things earlier, that's fine, but at the same time, it clearly had a shown gravitational pull, which means it clearly had an escape velocity which is easily quantifiable by scaling to 18, or a low end by scaling to SOL. We also know it has mass, as it sunk down through the stage showing how dense it is.
1) the Mass of the object can be calculated based on its radius and escape velocity
2) Then it's acceleration due to gravity can be calculated after the mass is known to tell us the gravitational pull on Goku.
This solves 2 problems, it prevents it from being termed a black hole and also doesn't ignore the fact that Goku withstood gravity at that level, because this is clearly a lifting feat bump for DBS
- 17,752
- 17,188
We do not give lifting strength like this, at all. Especially with false black holes.
thetechmaster36
He/Him- 1,680
- 1,634
They made what looked to be a very similarly-functioning black hole, and then just made it not a black hole because they moved it over to the three U7 fighters? This is kinda grasping at straws ngl, especially when there's no proof that they just said "lol nope" and made it stop behaving like a black hole. It either is or it isn't, and to me, it's looking less like it is and more like it isn't.
It had suction, and then it didn't and started acting as a physical obstacle to sink through the arena; that's not how black holes work, otherwise it would have mended and sucked in more of the arena with it.
Another big grasp at straws tbh. Besides that, you're contradicting your premise, you can't claim the whole time that they made a black hole and then immediately backpedal and state the possibility that it's a "celestial body" (even though that also isn't the case). Pick one or the other.
- 11,236
- 17,459
I don't really care either way but I do want to mention that if this is rejected, you could probably calculate the amount of the stage crushed by the Pretty Black Hole and use that as a lifting strength feat (as Goku could overcome weight that could crush this)
In fact I'mma probably do that later.
In fact I'mma probably do that later.
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #50
Unless I am mistaken, Gravity is Gravity, and it was directly compared to Bulma's own gravity chamber, the entire point of being in higher gravity is that your oen body weight is increased, you have to he able to lift your own body weight just to move. Are you telling me lifting your own body weight isn't LS? Because that's exactly what Goku would he doing. Once the gravity on him is known, it would be simple matter to divide it with planet Vegeta's gravity (Earth*10) to see how much more Gravity he was facing than on Earth, which wouod be multiplied by his body mass to know how much body weight he was lifting
Isn't that what was shown? It didn't have surface or anything, as see when it sucked in the rubble and the blast, they didn't slam into any surface, and then when they attacked U7, it suddenly did
This is my point,not had it, then stopped l, look at all the facts before they attacked. It was noted by Whis to be their weight focused in one spot to create a mass of gravity, it had a suction radius, it's gravity was strong enough to prevent light from escaping, it didn't have a tangible surface, all that changes when they attacked
I am simply making this alternative proposal simply because it seems that the sinking is too big and issue too ignore for most, but at the same time, completely ignoring the fact that it had immense gravity that acted directly on Goku, which is why I edited the OP earlier. It's either taken as a black hole or if not, a created construct with its own gravity which allows us easily calculate the g force acting on him, and what he overcame in base form, which was the entire point of my thread anyway. The gravity he was subjected to can't be ignored
- 14,146
- 11,126
They could calc the compression of the ground, then divide it by the character's body area that the pressure is being applied upon. Sht like that has become common as of late, RWBY for example has calcs like that.
Would get quite high, so it's not useless, but yeah getting LS through a method like that do be a tad sus.
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #52
Wouldn't this just be a durability feat? We already know the minimum escape velocity of the pretty black hole, and its radius, it's very easy to simply calculate the gravity acting on Goku,
- 14,146
- 11,126
Nah, the stage is being crushed by force, force is basically just what LS is.
If you can calculate the destruction, you can calculate how much force is needed to do that with a few extra steps, and from there, you can divide Goku's body area by the area of the effected destruction and get what you need.
It doubles as AP tho, but sometimes there's overlap.
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #54
Doesn't resisting higher gravity areas count as a lifting feat? If Goku went to a place with 1000x earth gravity,his body weight is multiplied accordingly, does that not count as am LS in this site?
- 14,146
- 11,126
It does, issue is it was clearly rejected as being a legitimate black hole so you can't do wacky black hole gravity formula stuff.
The best way to get the gravity discrepancy in this instance would be to still just figure out the compression of the ground, so either way.
The best way to get the gravity discrepancy in this instance would be to still just figure out the compression of the ground, so either way.
- 4,137
- 4,842
Would kachi katchin steel also be taken account since that's what the arena is made of and is most durable/hardest material in dragon ball.
- 11,236
- 17,459
I think I'd have to use steel as the material, as I'm really not sure how being a harder version of the hardest material in Universe 7 would factor in
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #59
It being a black hole or not makes no difference, I am not using the black hole formula or the schwarzchild's formula.
Simply put, I am treating it like a dense body of mass with its own gravity that Goku was subjected to which is exactly how it acted after it was slammed down (which is the main bone of contention), we know it has mass, as compressed and sunk the ground made of the densest material in the multiverse, we have its radius and its escape velocity, no assumption need there, which means we can easily get the mass using the escape velocity equation, and then find the g force using the acceleration due to gravity equation. It's a very simple matter, and zero assumptions needed
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #60
You could just take the densest material in our known universe use that as the low-balled figure
ProudLearner
She/Her- 1,212
- 441
Limited Resistance to Gravity
- 4,137
- 4,842
I think tungsten is the best considering both kachi katchin and tungsten are basically extremely hard steel/comparable metals
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #64
True, would be weird that the GP made a stage knowing about the general.PLs expected and used a material with such low density tho but either way, what about this?
- 17,752
- 17,188
Again, it's a fictional supernatural metal. It could be like, lighter than air but tank the Big Bang.
The calc part I'm neutral too but I'd defer to the Calc Group members.
- 11,236
- 17,459
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,162
- 1,153
I am not very knowledgable when it comes to calcs but is it possible to calculate its mass based on the fact that it can pull mftl energy attacks?
- 17,752
- 17,188
No. Calc stacking aside, that's just plain nonsensical.
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #69
Vesc = SQRT(2GM/r) is usually the formula that links escape velocity and mass, as long as radius (r) is known, with G being a constant value
Not sure if they'll agree to use it here or if applicable
- 14,663
- 20,340
Disagree with it being equated to a real black hole for reasons stated.
- 9,644
- 10,347
We don't use kinetic energy for objects that go beyond or equates to SoL as physics don't fit with that.
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,162
- 1,153
Thanks ^^
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #73
The entire point of this CRT was to allow Goku's resistance here on his LS profile and those who would scale to him. Whether it was accepted as a black hole or not.
There are 3 ways this feat can be calced
1) Simple comparative gravity analysis. Only the gravity itself is compared, it's created gravity is strong enough to prevent light from escaping, which means it's escape velocity is above LS, neutron stars have an escape velocity at half of this. It's gravity is stronger than any known thing not called a black hole. If Goku resisted that gravity, then he's handle one of a neutron star much easier. No assumptions or mass or density calculations needed. Simply put, if gravity A>gravity B, then anyone who can handle gravity A can handle gravity B easier.
2) Using the 'Vesc = SQRT(2GM/r)" to get its mass using SOL or 99% SOL(as low end) or 18's blast (at high end) as it's escape velocity and the calculated radius, and then using the g=GM/r^2, to get the acceleration due to gravity, I'll Confirm if this formula is applicable. Again, no assumptions needed, radius can be extrapolated, G is a constant, escape velocity is a lowballed SOL or 99% SOL, OR 18's blast - depending on if ftl values can be used in the formula
3) Using the compression force like @CloverDragon03 suggested, I saw the initial attempt, and requires some assumption like the density used, did come out at 1.55e+11kg tho
There are 3 ways this feat can be calced
1) Simple comparative gravity analysis. Only the gravity itself is compared, it's created gravity is strong enough to prevent light from escaping, which means it's escape velocity is above LS, neutron stars have an escape velocity at half of this. It's gravity is stronger than any known thing not called a black hole. If Goku resisted that gravity, then he's handle one of a neutron star much easier. No assumptions or mass or density calculations needed. Simply put, if gravity A>gravity B, then anyone who can handle gravity A can handle gravity B easier.
2) Using the 'Vesc = SQRT(2GM/r)" to get its mass using SOL or 99% SOL(as low end) or 18's blast (at high end) as it's escape velocity and the calculated radius, and then using the g=GM/r^2, to get the acceleration due to gravity, I'll Confirm if this formula is applicable. Again, no assumptions needed, radius can be extrapolated, G is a constant, escape velocity is a lowballed SOL or 99% SOL, OR 18's blast - depending on if ftl values can be used in the formula
3) Using the compression force like @CloverDragon03 suggested, I saw the initial attempt, and requires some assumption like the density used, did come out at 1.55e+11kg tho
- 19,577
- 15,914
I'm with Planck here. Our standards kn Black Holes are strict and the DBS one has to many issues to be considered legitimate in my view.
- 2,804
- 967
Why is Android 18's ki blast constantly being changed in speed around here? Sometimes is SoL then goes to MFTL+ and back to SoL it changes whenever its convenient
- 1,302
- 988
- Thread starter
- #76
Who said it was only SOL?
- 2,804
- 967
You said by saying its light and that the "black hole" absorbed it.
- 2,804
- 967
And now that you want to calc the gravity you are using it as SoL
speedster352
He/Him- 17,225
- 1,745
I agree with the op
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,939
- 7,697
Does this only apply to Blueku, or does this apply to 17 and 18, too?
- Status
