Bringing back DBS Pretty Black Hole Legitimacy

[Jaakor48]

It breaks E=mc², the same reason behind ½mc² to not be accepted as kinetic energy beyond soL.

I had to confirm this first before I even started the calc from an actual calculation staff, because I initially wanted to use below Sol speeds, it was confirmed that the formula works just fine

Ftl speeds can be used in that formula


Dunno what else to tell you

 

[Reiner04]

I had to confirm this first before I even started the calc from an actual calculation staff, because I initially wanted to use below Sol speeds, it was confirmed that the formula works just fine

Ftl speeds can be used in that formula


Dunno what else to tell you

I am fine with that then ig...

 

[Golden_Void]

I had to confirm this first before I even started the calc from an actual calculation staff, because I initially wanted to use below Sol speeds, it was confirmed that the formula works just fine

Ftl speeds can be used in that formula


Dunno what else to tell you

Well, I for one disagree.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The calc has been done here

It seems DT rejected this.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Class G it is then

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Indeed

 

[Tarang123]

It was only referenced as being stronger than Bulma's chamber iirc, which is only 300g. A black hole with one solar mass has 1.6 trillion G. Unless there are some insane multipliers laying around, idk.

Uh...Goku couldn't instant transmission out of it and iirc it's even explicitly stated that light can't escape

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Uh...Goku couldn't instant transmission out of it and iirc it's even explicitly stated that light can't escape

Doesn't matter. We can't calc that, basically. DontTalk rejected the escape velocity calc.

 

[Tarang123]

It is shaped like a heart
This makes absolutely zero sense with how black holes work
It’s event horizon also doesn’t act like a black hole as it is clearly something that exists whereas a event horizon is merely the point where light cannot escape

You do realize that this is fiction and fiction doesn't always obey reality strictly, right? This, by the way, is only addressing the heart shaped argument

 

[Reiner04]

You do realize that this is fiction and fiction doesn't always obey reality strictly, right? This, by the way, is only addressing the heart shaped argument

The same arguement can be made for calc involves FTL (kinetic energy) stuff, but we don't do that. Feats that aren't abide by physics or contradicts it and has no answer in it cannot be used. Unless it's not a problem to do that (FTL speed calcs).

 

[Tarang123]

The same arguement can be made for calc involves FTL (kinetic energy) stuff, but we don't do that. Feats that aren't abide by physics or contradicts it and has no answer in it cannot be used. Unless it's not a problem to do that (FTL speed calcs).

Fair point, but this shape argument only works in tandem with other arguments against it working like a black hole. If it's called a black hole, explicitly depicts the absorbing of different objects, and is explicitly stated to have so much gravity that light itself cannot escape, then the shape argument falls apart. Yes, we apply physics, but I don't think that extends to how things are supposed to look like.

 

[Reiner04]

Fair point, but this shape argument only works in tandem with other arguments against it working like a black hole. If it's called a black hole, explicitly depicts the absorbing of different objects, and is explicitly stated to have so much gravity that light itself cannot escape, then the shape argument falls apart. Yes, we apply physics, but I don't think that extends to how things are supposed to look like.

I am sure there are more (it touched ground and air getting away from it. Black hole basic properties is to not let light escape and every fiction shows that but to assume to entirely a black hole in all terms to go further into calc'ing LS is what we not do (same as we calc FTL speed via D/T but not K.E.). Also, if being heart shaped in anyway is a good reason to reject it (as per paper works), then I think it's fine to reject it.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't know why you guys keep arguing this, it was pretty solidly rejected

 

[theultimate5105]

You do realize that this is fiction and fiction doesn't always obey reality strictly, right? This, by the way, is only addressing the heart shaped argument

Ok
So based on this statement it also can’t be classified as a black hole because it doesn’t obey how black holes work according to you so it cannot be used for any calcs

 

[Jaakor48]

It seems DT rejected this

For some reason he keeps saying it's not a black hole, which has nothing to do with the Calc. But I've asked Ant to Confirm with psychomaster, who confirmed I could use SOL as the escape velocity, if he changes his mind or if SOL still can't be used, I'll just lowball it further to 50% SOL (which is the escape velocity of natural neutron stars)

Or if possible could you ping him there to clarify?

 

[Golden_Void]

For some reason he keeps saying it's not a black hole, which has nothing to do with the Calc. But I've asked Ant to Confirm with psychomaster, who confirmed I could use SOL as the escape velocity, if he changes his mind or if SOL still can't be used, I'll just lowball it further to 50% SOL (which is the escape velocity of natural neutron stars)

Or if possible could you ping him there to clarify?

Because the formula you used implies that the heart in question is a legit black hole. This thread basically attempts to mention "B" to arrive at "C" while trying to exclude "A". You can't say "but I'm using escape velocity, not schwarzchild radius" (they're like 90% the same formula anyway) but also use the speed of light as the escape velocity which is an essential constant of the schwarzchild radius formula.

 

[KLOL506]

We seriously need to underline all the conditions required to qualify a black hole in fiction being 1:1 with a real-life black hole just like how we have Light speed qualifying criteria.

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 Would either of you be able to type up the required criteria in our black hole feats in fiction page?

 

[CloverDragon03]

We seriously need to underline all the conditions required to qualify a black hole in fiction being 1:1 with a real-life black hole just like how we have Light speed qualifying criteria.

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 Would either of you be able to type up the required criteria in our black hole feats in fiction page?

I'm in agreement with this. The page doesn't really have a list of qualifying factors a la the light dodging page.

 

[Jaakor48]

Because the formula you used implies that the heart in question is a legit black hole. This thread basically attempts to mention "B" to arrive at "C" while trying to exclude "A". You can't say "but I'm using escape velocity, not schwarzchild radius" (they're like 90% the same formula anyway) but also use the speed of light as the escape velocity which is an essential constant of the schwarzchild radius formula.

No, it's the general formula for any celestial body of mass with gravity. This one simply has a strong enough one that light can't escape which makes it its escape velocity. This is the exact same formula one would use to find the gravity on earth

And again, as I've kept saying, before I even made the blog ,I asked both on the calc discussion forum as well as in the walls of a calc mod, if SOL and LS escape velocity is possible, and I was told yes.

It's simply a body of mass whose gravity is strong enough that light can't escape (hell even mftl blasts couldn't escape, but that would be calc stacking), which makes light its escape velocity. It's that simple, the issue seems to be that because we don't have any body of mass with gravity that strong,the closest being neutron stars which have 50% gravity, but that shouldn't be some obstacle.

 

[Golden_Void]

No, it's the general formula for any celestial body of mass with gravity. This one simply has a strong enough one that light can't escape which makes it its escape velocity. This is the exact same formula one would use to find the gravity on earth

And again, as I've kept saying, before I even made the blog ,I asked both on the calc discussion forum as well as in the walls of a calc mod, if SOL and LS escape velocity is possible, and I was told yes.

It's simply a body of mass whose gravity is strong enough that light can't escape (hell even mftl blasts couldn't escape, but that would be calc stacking), which makes light its escape velocity. It's that simple, the issue seems to be that because we don't have any body of mass with gravity that strong,the closest being neutron stars which have 50% gravity, but that shouldn't be some obstacle.

If you are using this classification, then it certainly does not apply, as celestial bodies are naturally occurring or are formed by natural means.

 

[DontTalkDT]

We seriously need to underline all the conditions required to qualify a black hole in fiction being 1:1 with a real-life black hole just like how we have Light speed qualifying criteria.

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 Would either of you be able to type up the required criteria in our black hole feats in fiction page?

Probably was my first rule-like page... Actually, initially didn't even write it as rule page, but just as a blog to explain the concepts. So I guess adding a quick summary somewhere would do.

How about something like this:

Summary of Criteria​

To summarize, in order for something to be accepted and treated in feats as a proper black hole, one first and foremost must confirm that the object in question has reason to be believed to be a black hole to begin with. This is usually done via a reliable statement that it is a black hole, but the detailed criteria can be found in the "Recognizing Black Holes"-section.
Additionally, the black hole should behave reasonably realistically, meaning that it shouldn't behave in ways that obviously contradicts the basic properties of black holes in science. Such contradictions can include, but are not limited to,

• something escaping the black hole's event horizon without being faster than light or resisting getting pulled further in once past the event horizon without moving faster than light.
• something that doesn't already have feats of High Universe level or higher durability surviving the singularity of the black hole.
• something destroying a black hole via brute force, be that through punches, energy beams or similar.
• something grabing the event horizon as if it were a tangible object.
• something moving the black hole by simply physically punching / kicking or grabbing it, instead of doing so by throwing something with momentum into it.
• the black hole being created or destroyed at faster than light speeds i.e. it's gravity being FTL.

And I think that are all listed on the page.
I haven't mentioned things like being heart-shaped for no reason, but I hope it would be clear that that, and other cartoony weirdness, somewhat falls in the category of other contradictions.

 

[Jaakor48]

If you are using this classification, then it certainly does not apply, as celestial bodies are naturally occurring or are formed by natural means.

I used celestial body cuz I couldn't think of a better word for an object with that much mass and gravity.

Literally anything with mass can be used with that formula.

Well, if they still keep having an issue with the SOL thing, I guess I'll lowball it further to 50% SOL, which occurs in natural objects and be done with it

 

[Jaakor48]

Bump

well, I made another calc, this time using a neutron star as the low ball, as they average just over 50% SO|L as their escape velocity.

 

[AwkguyDB]

interesting

 

[Damage3245]

This thread looks to be a necro. No activity in around 7 months or so. Closing it.