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Bowser vs. Eggman, again (Grace?)

Infinite gets one-shot going by the ratings we have for him, and the Phantom King didn't even use much of it's hax and is mostly just AP in-character so I doubt he matters much
 
Theuser789 said:
First things first this match won't be added because it was made after the forum move shit, so I guess votes and all won't really matter
Second, why he would he only be able to use one? They are mass factured, one-shooting them is meangless because they are disposable, the problem is that they can use all their hax while Eggman controls the **** out of time with the Time Eater, like slowing it down that he is snail movement, and you yourself said that in those moments matter alot, Bowser has no counter too most time manipulation, and Time Eater entire thing is that

>Resistance to Time Stop says no.

Retry Clock isn't ressurection, it needs to be activated, he can't activate it if he is mindhaxed, the game even gives you the option to use it or not, plus even in BIS he couldn't use it after being crushed, or locked into a safe, so It seems it only works if he gets knocked out, or else he would have used It on those times

>That's a blatant game mechanic, why would a menu that has a list of items you can use be considered canon? Even by that logic, no reason as to why Bowser wouldn't use it. That's PIS, video game characters have so many chances to use certain things to easily win yet never use it.

Never argued BFR, it was already argued in the original thread it wouldn't work

>I wasn't there.

Eggman would turn the entire Earth into a card, that bypasses Bowser transmutation resistance

>I can argue Bowser resists planetary to Multi-Solar System transmutation. Kamek's magic is on a planetary range as stated in Tetris Attack. Bowser resists Kamek magic. Or we can scale Kamek's Bowser to magic.

Nah, he can't activate retry clock if he is mindhaxed, as proved above

>Same issues above

Eggrobo's can use the machines while Eggman fights Bowser

>And Bowser's range says otherwise, as well as AoE sleep manipulation (this has worked on machines via Paper Mario) and several other moves he can use to just finish them. This isn't the first time he's fought a hoard of enemies on his own.

One, vacumm doesn't work with big enemies as show multiple times in BIS, two vacuming doesn't kill enemies, Mario and Luigi did, they can literaly just kill Bowser from the inside, which is very easily done since tons of areas of his body doesn't have guards, only the brain has it

>The vaccume literally shrinks characters whenever you swallow them. It doesn't even matter, Grand Star Bowser is the size of a ship. Also I was arguing that he can inhale Eggman's machinery since he's done it before.

Literaly when has Bowser transmutated a entire multi-solar system? I want proof because that sounds sus, plus Eggman also has things that beat him in one-shoot, so that wouldn't mean much

>In the opening of Yoshi's story, he turned Yoshi's world into a pop up book. And the game stated it was done within the blink of an eye, so this is extremely quick. He's also turned all Toads into random shit before for some supporting evidence. As well as turn people into music notes.

The Star Rod is 2-B, so I don't think he can be used here isn't it?

>Not anymore...sadly

Listing powers isn't a argument, Metal can just Chaos Control Eggman back to avoid BFR, and sealing can be dodged and all, plus his machines can act on their own and are unaffected by it, they can just hax Bowser while he is gloating, make Bowser free Eggman, them kill him

>Well we haven't seen exactly how Bowser sealed Peach, but we know he did. Also, Catch Cards cannot be dodged. Before they are even used, a mouse completely immobilizes you (this actually works for other items like sleep manipulation) and then seals you. This isn't a game mechanic either, since we've seen the exact same mouse and box used during cutscenes. Plus by this logic Bowser can use his minions as shown in BIS, as well as summon big badies like Magikoopa's, King Bob-Omb, etc.

The main thing that gives Eggman the W is his Time Manipulation, down to slow down or stopping time, which Bowser can't counter, giving Eggman the opportunity to give him time to do anything

>Man, almost as if Bowser can't resist it.
Click to expand...
So what stops Bowser from wishing his enemies away?
 
No, you don't get it, Sonic would resist time stop because of CD, Eggman too, affecting him with any time manipulation already bypasses resistance

Nothing I saw showed anything above planetary potency to actualy matter he turning "worlds" sounds hyperbolic and nothing showed that in any quote at all, plus Super Mario 64 worlds don't even contain anywhere near the amount of habitants that the world has. Eggman can just use mindcontroll ray from his Eggmobile, he doesn't need to go all out, he is smarter than to just do that, plus you are forgetting the mind ray doesn't instatly end, plus Bowser will be fighting Eggman and probaly the Phantom King while the mindhax will be fired, so he will be busy, so yes, very relevant

Buurden of proof is on you to show me Bowser mindhaxing a machine like Eggman's, and not just "something that looks like a machine" but a actual one

I literaly did, equipment from RPG and BIS doesn't change Eggman's three layers of probality manipulation to make the chances of him being hit less and less, plus the fact he can ressurect three times in battle automaticaly

Again, proof it affect actual inorganic beings, also Eggman can just put Bowser in layers of illusions with the Phantom Ruby
 
Tfw there's literaly multiple text walls to respond from multiple people but you have to sleep

Meh, I will respond tommorow to you all, expect another wall lol
 
Lmao you're literally ignoring counterpoints now. I gave evidence and so did DatOneWeeb and all you have to say is "nuh-uh because I said so" and arguing semantics like "because something looks like a machine doesn't mean it is".

Already stated why Infinite doesn't matter. He just gets petrified/transmutated or one-shot instantly.

If Eggman used the mind control ray in his Egg Mobile it doesn't have the potency of the planet-wide shit he only got when juiced up on Emeralds and tons pf Hyper Go-On Energy. Once those are gone (it completely drained the Emeralds and the Wisps needed to be gathered en masse) he likely isn't gonna have the ability to replicate said planetary mind hax at all because he'll need the juices again that he can't acquire within a short timespan.

"Hyperbole" can also be claimed against like, half of Sonic's statements as well. You know that, right? This isn't an argument and just makes it seem like you're backed into a corner. "It doesn't have nearly the amount of inhabitants" is also countered by the fact that these worlds had enough room for a star system, so calling them worlds and assuming they can hold a planet abundant with life as shown by the levels isn't hyperbolic nor a massive assumption at all. Plus, there's Kamek"s range like DatOne already brought up.

Lest I also bring up Time Eater literally ripped the damn universe apart from doing what it does best so literally any of Eggman's army caught up in it would be effected and likely rendered obsolete. If Eggman is smart, he would only use the Time Eater when he's in dire circumstances because the thing ripped the space-time continuum a new one at full power. Hell, what's stopping Bowser from just one-shotting Eggman's entire army via his AP and range? Low 2-C key can gro giant amd literally can summon an armada that csn make it rain down on the planet from within the air and csn actually do it from within space as well. Some of these projectiles can evem encase things in crystal on contact. Magikoopas are pretty much a better Infinite in every way and there exists hundreds of them.

We're also assuming Infinite wouldn't completely **** Eggman's army up when IIRC even Omega was going to be susceptible to the illusion of the Sun, proving it works on bots. IIRC he can choose who gets affected, but we've only been shown him making an exception for Eggman only. We have no proof he can make the entire army immune to his illusions.

And IIRC the Phantom King rebelled with it's Low 2-C power so why are we even assuming Eggman can control it?

We're talking hax plays but in reality Eggman's own hubris, in spite of his IQ, is always his downfall, and it's WAY more exploitable in a match like this with these factors than Bowser's bridge traps.

This is without mentioning Bowser also has revives and mass healing via his own arsenal plus his army (magikoopas can be summoned and they can revive and heal others plus empower and debuff others which Bowser can also do in base which means he could one-shot that way,but we're assuming they both wanma go for a kill so that's why considering they both have options I'd say incon in a hax match) and as an undead skeleton can also life drain, nevermind that Eggman's life drain takes like a whole day to actually drain the Earth enough to kill the inhabitants and it's yet another big machine that Bowser can easily avoid via just teleporting away from the planet.

As for fighting multiple enemies, Bowser can make his summoms into clomes of him with the same AP and abilities plus Kamek and Magikoopas can duplicate PLUS Bowser csn duplicate himself and unlike the gameplay of the Double Cherry, his clones in 3D World acted independently, so he can def deal with mutiple things at once here. Rather easily in fact.
 
Yes, and Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Luigi resist it via Super Paper Mario. Mario's time manipulation works against Bowser. It doesn't against Star Rod Bowser. Time manipulation is useless.

I said world, not worlds. Considering how with his magic he would've flooded the world, that should mean planet. "If nothing is done, the world will be flooded!" (Yoshi even resisted his spell). Where did I even say Super Mario 64? His transmutation affected Yoshi's world. Including the sky and stars. And in the blink of an eye. The Phantom King hasn't been shown to start with this. Not saying he won't, but I doubt he'll even use it until soon.

A robot, a rock, and stone.

Probability manipulation as in...what? As in a chance of missing an attack? Because an auto lock on isn't gonna miss.

Again, what stops Bowser from wishing Eggman and everyone else away?
 
**** it, even though Bowser has like a million votes I will still argue against him

>Resistance to Time Stop says no.

Bypassing resistance says yes

>That's a blatant game mechanic, why would a menu that has a list of items you can use be considered canon? Even by that logic, no reason as to why Bowser wouldn't use it. That's PIS, video game characters have so many chances to use certain things to easily win yet never use it.

Retry clock is literaly a gameplay item, it's only mentioned once in the entire story, and I wasn't even talking about using it in a menu because you even can't use it that way in the game itself, it does nothing, but I was talking about when you get knocked out,the game will give the opition of using it or not, so it's not passive, and you are using PIS as a buzzword, it's more like it doesn't work the way you think it does because of the literal many contradictions, both in story and gameplay

>And Bowser's range says otherwise, as well as AoE sleep manipulation (this has worked on machines via Paper Mario) and several other moves he can use to just finish them. This isn't the first time he's fought a hoard of enemies on his own.

Eggman resists sleep manipulation himself, and he also has other AoE, like his mindhax, illusion, life-force absortion etc

>The vaccume literally shrinks characters whenever you swallow them. It doesn't even matter, Grand Star Bowser is the size of a ship. Also I was arguing that he can inhale Eggman's machinery since he's done it before.

You completely ignored my argument that inhaling them is the worst move he could possible do because they could just kill him from the inside, since this even happened that way in BIS with Bowser losing abilities because he inhaled wrong stuff, and there's no Mario and Luigi to save him

>In the opening of Yoshi's story, he turned Yoshi's world into a pop up book. And the game stated it was done within the blink of an eye, so this is extremely quick. He's also turned all Toads into random shit before for some supporting evidence. As well as turn people into music notes.

From what you and the others are saying he only uses this stuff against random fodder he doesn't care about, I want to see if he did this stuff against actual threats before

>Well we haven't seen exactly how Bowser sealed Peach, but we know he did. Also, Catch Cards cannot be dodged. Before they are even used, a mouse completely immobilizes you (this actually works for other items like sleep manipulation) and then seals you. This isn't a game mechanic either, since we've seen the exact same mouse and box used during cutscenes. Plus by this logic Bowser can use his minions as shown in BIS, as well as summon big badies like Magikoopa's, King Bob-Omb, etc.

Same as above. Catch cards can only work on one foe per time, and the stronger the enemy is the higher chance of failing, and inb4 gameplay mechanic this is even said in the description, it hardly works against bosses, and there's Eggman's own probality manipulation as well making it even less of it to work

>Man, almost as if Bowser can't resist it.

Sadly Eggman bypasses resistance

>Lmao you're literally ignoring counterpoints now. I gave evidence and so did DatOneWeeb and all you have to say is "nuh-uh because I said so" and arguing semantics like "because something looks like a machine doesn't mean it is".

Stop with the petty insults just because I am arguing against you, insults themselfs aren't arguments, I never ignored any counterpoints at all, and it isn't semantics, if it's so obvious you should have proof, you know I hadn't read his post before commenting

>Already stated why Infinite doesn't matter. He just gets petrified/transmutated or one-shot instantly.

Never talked about Infinite, Eggman can use every Ruby hax by himself and even make Infinite copys with it, Eggman can use the Ruby even better than Infinite can

>If Eggman used the mind control ray in his Egg Mobile it doesn't have the potency of the planet-wide shit he only got when juiced up on Emeralds and tons pf Hyper Go-On Energy. Once those are gone (it completely drained the Emeralds and the Wisps needed to be gathered en masse) he likely isn't gonna have the ability to replicate said planetary mind hax at all because he'll need the juices again that he can't acquire within a short timespan.

That's not how mindhax potency works, it doesn't get smaller because it's on the Eggmobile, he just needed alot of energy to control everyone for a long time, Eggman never amped the energy to even increase the potency of it, more energy means more duration of the hax, not less potency

>Hyperbole" can also be claimed against like, half of Sonic's statements as well. You know that, right? This isn't an argument and just makes it seem like you're backed into a corner. "It doesn't have nearly the amount of inhabitants" is also countered by the fact that these worlds had enough room for a star system, so calling them worlds and assuming they can hold a planet abundant with life as shown by the levels isn't hyperbolic nor a massive assumption at all. Plus, there's Kamek"s range like DatOne already brought up.

Irrelevant without any actual proof of hyprobole, especialy since I already seen your awful Sonic arguments before, and even then they are still irrelevant here, having a star system is literaly irrelevant in terms of population, our universe only has life on Earth even though it's gigantic, without any actual proof it actualy has a Earth sized population I still won't consider it

>Lest I also bring up Time Eater literally ripped the damn universe apart from doing what it does best so literally any of Eggman's army caught up in it would be effected and likely rendered obsolete. If Eggman is smart, he would only use the Time Eater when he's in dire circumstances because the thing ripped the space-time continuum a new one at full power. Hell, what's stopping Bowser from just one-shotting Eggman's entire army via his AP and range? Low 2-C key can gro giant amd literally can summon an armada that csn make it rain down on the planet from within the air and csn actually do it from within space as well. Some of these projectiles can evem encase things in crystal on contact. Magikoopas are pretty much a better Infinite in every way and there exists hundreds of them.

The Time Eater only did that before being controlled by Eggman, he won't just destroy his entire army for the funny sake of it, you seem to love getting out of context scenes completely ignoring if the characters have braincells or not. Sure Bowser can one-shoot the army, Eggman can do the same as well, my argument is that certain haxes of the army will work on him, alot of it will be fodder

>We're also assuming Infinite wouldn't completely **** Eggman's army up when IIRC even Omega was going to be susceptible to the illusion of the Sun, proving it works on bots. IIRC he can choose who gets affected, but we've only been shown him making an exception for Eggman only. We have no proof he can make the entire army immune to his illusions.

One, Eggman can use the Ruby by himself and literaly make tens of thousands of Infinites, two Eggman's actual army in Forces was immune to the Ruby, so it wasn't just Eggman, so we have proof in the same game, the Ruby can target however Eggman wants

>And IIRC the Phantom King rebelled with it's Low 2-C power so why are we even assuming Eggman can control it?

He still fought against Sonic in focus in Mania, plus Eggman seems to have fixed that problem in Mania Plus since they are loyal again

>We're talking hax plays but in reality Eggman's own hubris, in spite of his IQ, is always his downfall, and it's WAY more exploitable in a match like this with these factors than Bowser's bridge traps.

Eggman only has that problem against Sonic because he wants to show his superiority against him, plus he has ****** himself up way less times than Bowser has, Eggman will have nothing to prove against a for like Bowser

>This is without mentioning Bowser also has revives and mass healing via his own arsenal plus his army (magikoopas can be summoned and they can revive and heal others plus empower and debuff others which Bowser can also do in base which means he could one-shot that way,but we're assuming they both wanma go for a kill so that's why considering they both have options I'd say incon in a hax match) and as an undead skeleton can also life drain, nevermind that Eggman's life drain takes like a whole day to actually drain the Earth enough to kill the inhabitants and it's yet another big machine that Bowser can easily avoid via just teleporting away from the planet.

Eggman also has ressurection and healing as well, plus I am sure equipment makes him immune to status effects, Eggman has life drain via his own equipment, plus draining the Earth is a way bigger feat than just one person plus way harder to do so, plus the "whole day" time gap you pulled straight out of your ass since that's never stated, plus Eggman was holding back on the Extractor, unlike the Deadly six

>As for fighting multiple enemies, Bowser can make his summoms into clomes of him with the same AP and abilities plus Kamek and Magikoopas can duplicate PLUS Bowser csn duplicate himself and unlike the gameplay of the Double Cherry, his clones in 3D World acted independently, so he can def deal with mutiple things at once here. Rather easily in fact.

Cloning doesn't help against the mindhax, plus Eggman can create clones of everyone with his Sonic the Fighters machine

>Yes, and Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Luigi resist it via Super Paper Mario. Mario's time manipulation works against Bowser. It doesn't against Star Rod Bowser. Time manipulation is useless.

Moving through a timeless void isn't a feat anymore unless the media shows that way, reason why infinite speed got yetted, highly doubt time stop resistance from it would mean anything

>I said world, not worlds. Considering how with his magic he would've flooded the world, that should mean planet. "If nothing is done, the world will be flooded!" (Yoshi even resisted his spell). Where did I even say Super Mario 64? His transmutation affected Yoshi's world. Including the sky and stars. And in the blink of an eye. The Phantom King hasn't been shown to start with this. Not saying he won't, but I doubt he'll even use it until soon.

Fox was the one who said that, I was replying to him, not you, also for the fourth time Eggman can use the Ruby's haxes by himself, and better than Infinite and very in character

>A robot, a rock, and stone.

I assume you are talking about the catch cards, again, they only work on one enemy and have huge chances of failing

>Probability manipulation as in...what? As in a chance of missing an attack? Because an auto lock on isn't gonna miss.

That seems like a NFL to assume it's never going to miss when Eggman has time manipulation, illusion creation, and the probality manipulation stacked on top of that

>Again, what stops Bowser from wishing Eggman and everyone else away?

Plenty, Ruby illusion to make Bowser wish the wrong people, mindhax making him wish himself out, etc.

>I can argue Bowser resists planetary to Multi-Solar System transmutation. Kamek's magic is on a planetary range as stated in Tetris Attack. Bowser resists Kamek magic. Or we can scale Kamek's Bowser to magic

First, AP can't be scaled to hax potency, second thing Kamek's Magic isn't only transmutation, so he having planetary range doesn't mean his transmutation has planetary potency

To add to this wall but Eggman also has info analysis, so he will know what Bowser can do, but not vice-versa
 
This whole thing you've been literally downplaying Bowser but I don't have to respond to that since grace is over someone else will or whatever.
 
I am definitvely not downplaying Bowser, stop accusing lol, and grace isn't over yet, there's still a few hours left
 
Grace Started 14 hours ago but y'all two made good arguments but I'm leaning towards Bowser with better haxs via star rod, soul/sealing, transmutation, higher durability via his shell etc.
 
I am 95% sure you already voted but whatever, listing powers isn't a argument btw

Also higher dura? What? They have the same AP/dura, with the Phantom King energy attack having higher AP because he bypasses Sonic's stone-wall dura
 
>Eggman bypasses resistances.

Until you give him Resistance Negation, then the argument means nothing here

>Potency

Bowser transmuted the whole Mushroom Kingdom into bricks, that would count as something potent enough to harm eggman

>Infinite.

Pretty sure Infinite is only 5-A, don't really know what he will do here

>Gameplay Mechanic.

Uhhh, the retry clock is treated as an collectible item, the only thing you can argue gameplay mechanics if the player can choose to come back or not. But the whole coming back part being a mechanic is no
 
Bowser has 13 votes, not 14. NotAMarioFan already voted prior.

Anyways, I'm confident Eggman takes this due to his reliancy in-character to use the Phantom Ruby/the Ruby Prototypes. He can easily trap Bowser in a Virtual Reality just as Infinite did with Shadow, leaving Bowser none the wiser, could send him to Null Space, can mass-create duplicates of his army, etc. Also for most of User's reasons, which seems solid.

Me and the 3 votes you missed for Eggman make this 13-7.
 
Alright, but he does, we WILL make that CRT

Yet Bowser never did that with any main character, only random fodder

Yeah, that's why I didn't argue him, but the Ruby, something low 2-C and Eggman can use it himself

Weeb is the one who said it was gameplay mechanics the things I said about it,I argued it wasn't, also choosing or not isn't gameplay mechanics, it shows it isn't passive and needs to be something actualy activated

I feel like you didn't actualy read my post because you barely argued on what I actualy said
 
Theuser789 said:
Alright, but he does, we WILL make that CRT
Yet Bowser never did that with any main character, only random fodder

Yeah, that's why I didn't argue him, but the Ruby, something low 2-C and Eggman can use it himself

Weeb is the one who said it was gameplay mechanics the things I said about it,I argued it wasn't, also choosing or not isn't gameplay mechanics, it shows it isn't passive and needs to be something actualy activated

I feel like you didn't actualy read my post because you barely argued on what I actualy said
Click to expand...
I'll do more, but it's that it's a massive wall of text
 
Also, the idea that Bowser doesn't use his hax in character is a bit untrue.

The 1st thing he did to try to get rid of the yoshis was transmute yoshis island into a story book. So that time of it being "for random fodder" is untrue
 
He used against fodder, never any main characters, plus the Phantom Ruby can just trick him to mindhax the wrong targets
 
From when he was a baby? Yeah, people's mindset change, plus alot of random Yoshi's still count on my point, did he do that against the main Yoshi?

For the thousand time, at least planetary potence
 
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