Boros - Speed Suggestion

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I have zero hope that this upgrade will get accepted, but since most of us can agree that High Hypersonic+ Boros doesn't make any ******* sense, I'm just gonna do it

Option 1 (Main suggestion):

At least Supersonic+ (Should be vastly superior to the likes of Melzalgald) | At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Much faster than before. Portrayed as superior to any previous opponents Saitama faced, including the likes of Carnage Kabuto, with Saitama even considering Boros an impressive foe) | At least Relativistic+ (Kicked Saitama to the moon in nearly an instant. His striking speed should be comparable to his kick), possibly higher (Saitama was seemingly surprised by the speed of Boros' Meteoric Burst, while he considered Geryuganshoop's near lightspeed pitches to be nothing but a bad joke)

I could argue Boros's lifting strength to get upgraded to Class G with this. Maybe another time

Option 2:
(only because confidence scaling is a thing)

At least Supersonic+ (Should be vastly superior to the likes of Melzalgald), possibly Relativistic+ (Believed he could fight Saitama even after witnessing him intercept Geryuganshoop's near lightspeed pitches) | At least Massively Hypersonic+ (Much faster than before. Portrayed as superior to any previous opponents Saitama faced, including the likes of Carnage Kabuto, with Saitama even considering Boros an impressive foe), possibly Relativistic+ | At least Relativistic+ (Kicked Saitama to the moon in nearly an instant. His striking speed should be comparable to his kick), possibly higher (Saitama was seemingly surprised by the speed of Boros' Meteoric Burst, while he considered Geryuganshoop's near lightspeed pitches to be nothing but a bad joke)

I will not be surprised if this doesn't get accepted (especially Option 2)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Is Boros fast enough to take back my kids from my ex wife tho

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Honestly, neither option seems to be based on anything concrete. Option 1 is reliant on him being "Portrayed as superior to any previous opponents Saitama faced" but he was only explicitly depicted to be superior in Strength/Durability.

Option 2 is just entirely flimsy, the most I'd support based on that reasoning is "Possibly higher".

 

[Tural2004]

Yeah, there is no way this gets accepted. I agree with option 1 though

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I actually would agree with option 2
given how it’s far less baseless than what we have for zombie man which is “should be (for no reason) faster than Saitama while he was training”
Confidence scaling is still pretty valid since he knew that Saitama would have been able to take out all his crew it makes complete sense from a narrative standpoint so I’m more inclined to trust it, especially since the anime depicts him of having the whole afterimages bit and blitzing the camera
but uh let’s see how this goes

 

[Nehz_XZX]

In the manga the fight of Geryuganshoop and Saitama outright happened in front of Boros. I'm not sure if he could have seen feat 1 from this calculation blog but feat 2 should have technically been visible from his point of view though we don't have any information about how clearly he saw that.

 

[Damage3245]

(since confidence scaling is a thing)

It really shouldn't be.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It really shouldn't be.

I don’t see why not
Boros should know how strong the warriors he hired are

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

No.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

No.

I don't think that this is the sort of things where a yes or no answer is appropriate though I guess that multiple reasons why someone wouldn't agree with this are already known.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

count me as an agree by the way
we all know boros is mhs+

 

[Nehz_XZX]

we all know boros is mhs+

We require a definite reasoning for that sort of thing. Saitama calls Boros strong and this can be interpreted as overall formidability but I can understand why some people wouldn't go with that assumption. It does seem like to me as if Boros is supposed to be superior to previous opponents Saitama has faced though.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

I don't think that this is the sort of things where a yes or no answer is appropriate though I guess that multiple reasons why someone wouldn't agree with this are already known.

I meant the response as a joke, but I don’t like either of the options

 

[Cryo123]

If Geryuganshoop's attack was 1000s of times faster than base Boros' perception, and then Saitama blited that, don't you think it would have garnered at least a little surprise? Although I think that would only warrant a downscale from Geryuganshoop's speed.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I agree with option 2

 

[Kin201]

Option 1 should be fine.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

We require a definite reasoning for that sort of thing. Saitama calls Boros strong and this can be interpreted as overall formidability but I can understand why some people wouldn't go with that assumption. It does seem like to me as if Boros is supposed to be superior to previous opponents Saitama has faced though.

Again, zombieman speed justification still is far weaker but it’s accepted

 

[Kachon123]

I don't fully agree with confidence scaling in most cases, but even if we were to use it here, I don't understand why we would give a solid rating for something so flimsy.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Again, zombieman speed justification still is far weaker but it’s accepted

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

That’s also pending revision

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Again, zombieman speed justification still is far weaker but it’s accepted

The Heroes all are Supersonic+ because during Brushing Up, Saitama was only nearly a year into his training with ten monsters to his name and only just moving "like a Hero should".

This is not the same.

 

[LordTracer]

I don’t think either of these work. Option 1 is the better of the two, since it doesn’t involve confidence scaling, but it’s not that good either.

Saitama never once commented on Boros’ speed, and the “portrayed as superior to all previous opponents” is unsourced, so the justification for scaling him above Kabuto is flimsy at best, baseless at worst.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I guess it would be good if there was a scan that could simply be linked as part of the justification for the suggested speed scaling but a scan like that doesn't exist as far as I'm aware. There is the comparison between Garou and Boros that makes it rather clear that these two are supposed to be superior to pretty much everything else which would presumably include speed but it doesn't seem like as if that can be applied to the manga now.

 

[Cryo123]

If Geryuganshoop's attack was 1000s of times faster than base Boros' perception, and then Saitama blited that, don't you think it would have garnered at least a little surprise? Although I think that would only warrant a downscale from Geryuganshoop's speed.

My argument for option 2.

Also, confidence scaling can be fine when used right. I hate the whole "confidence scaling = bad or wrong 100% of the time" sentiment on this site.

 

[Kachon123]

Planning on making a CRT to remove confidence scaling. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[LordTracer]

I hate the whole "confidence scaling = bad or wrong 100% of the time" sentiment on this site.

It can work as supporting evidence, not being the one thing responsible for a rating.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It can work as supporting evidence, not being the one thing responsible for a rating.

there's no reason why it can't be used for a possibly rating
evidence is evidence, especially when it's not contradictory of anything

 

[LordTracer]

there's no reason why it can't be used for a possibly rating
evidence is evidence, especially when it's not contradictory of anything

“he was confident tho” is extremely flimsy evidence. If it’s not backed up by anything else, it shouldn’t warrant anything more than a ‘possibly higher/far higher’.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

“he was confident tho” is extremely flimsy evidence. If it’s not backed up by anything else, it shouldn’t warrant anything more than a ‘possibly higher/far higher’.

"possibly far higher" is arbitrary as hell, when we literally can exactly quantify what he would be. far higher is reserved for things we know are higher then their value but can't quantify
as opposed to boros indirectly believing he would be faster than what he's seen saitama is capable of

 

[ZillertheBucko]

"possibly far higher" is arbitrary as hell, when we literally can exactly quantify what he would be. far higher is reserved for things we know are higher then their value but can't quantify
as opposed to boros indirectly believing he would be faster than what he's seen saitama is capable of

as opposed to possibly ratings being reserved for quantifiable values that we don't have definitive evidence of yet

 

[Cryo123]

Planning on making a CRT to remove confidence scaling. It's absolutely ridiculous.

If character A, (Who's only scaling is upscaling from his goons), sees character C move at 1000 times the Sol, and his not even slightly shocked by this course of event/views Character C as fodder, that at least shows they're within the MFTL+ range. If they were supersonic+, that would make itself pretty apparent. It doesn't matter how cocky you are, if you physically can't mentally proccess the speed at which events are happening, you're not going to be confident in besting them.

“he was confident tho” is extremely flimsy evidence. If it’s not backed up by anything else,

It is backed up by other things. He views his entire team as complete and utter fodder by his words. That would include their AP, Durability, and Speed.

it shouldn’t warrant anything more than a ‘possibly higher/far higher’.

Well if we're going to give them a possibly, why not give the exact value they would possibly scale to?

 

[Kachon123]

If character A, (Who's only scaling is upscaling from his goons), sees character C move at 1000 times the Sol, and his not even slightly shocked by this course of event/views Character C as fodder, that at least shows they're within the MFTL+ range. If they were supersonic+, that would make itself pretty apparent. It doesn't matter how cocky you are, if you physically can't mentally proccess the speed at which events are happening, you're not going to be confident in besting them.

Confidence scaling should never be used for a solid rating and there's no refuting that. It isn't and never has been good evidence for scaling.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Confidence scaling should never be used for a solid rating and there's no refuting that. It isn't and never has been good evidence for scaling.

this isn't an argument

 

[Kachon123]

this isn't an argument

Yes it is. In this wiki, we value reliable methods of scaling. Character A being confident to beat Character B after seeing them show feats beyond Character C's paygrade is not reliable at all. That's called being cocky. There are way too many variables that go into confidence scaling before we can even consider using it as supportive evidence.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yes it is. In this wiki, we value reliable methods of scaling. Character A being confident to beat Character B after seeing them show feats beyond Character C's paygrade is not reliable at all. That's called being cocky. There are way too many variables that go into confidence scaling before we can even consider using it as supportive evidence.

variables such as?
maybe you could start with, yknow, an argument

 

[Kachon123]

variables such as?

The personality of the character and if it's pure cockiness or if it's founded on their feats just to name a few

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The personality of the character and if it's pure cockiness or if it's founded on their feats just to name a few

boros is perfectly capable of assessing strength to some degree just based on a glare, and I'm assuming he would see how fast his top fighters are based on the hiring process
and boros is already far superior to his minions strength wise, so it would be justified of him to be confident in fighting someone his minions couldn't
anything else?

 

[Qawsedf234]

If we're going to upscale Boros then Option 1 is better. But it is based on a vague notion of either Disaster level scaling or the assumption that he proved to be a more intense enemy than Carnage Kabuto.

 

[Cryo123]

Yes it is. In this wiki, we value reliable methods of scaling.

I don't think you get what we're asking. We're asking you to prove that confidence scaling can never be reliable way to scale a character.

Not only do you not prove that in any of your comments, you also don't argue for why Boros in particular wouldn't qualify for confidence scaling.

Boros isn't arrogant, he calls himself the Dominator of the Universe because until that point he was.

"But he thought he would beat Saitama in his released form".

Saitama was holding back, and that allowed Boros to land some solid hits against him, that along with taking hits from a casual Saitama earlier in the fight led him to that conclusion. Nothing about that line of thinking denotes arrogance or stupidity.

 

[Recon1511]

It seems option 1 is more likely to be accepted so I will go with that one.

but I personally fully believe that confidence scaling can apply here and option 2 is just as viable, but whatever makes Released Boros not be blitzed by the midtiers of the verse is good enough for me.

also bump I guess

 

[Shmro]

I agree with option 1