Book Of Bill - Gravity Falls (Part 1.5 , Cosmology update)

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, and I'm trying to conciliate the "outlier" as something that happened, while still making sense of everything, without dismissing it entirely.

You do realize that you can't go in-between here, right?

• It's not an outlier: Bill and Time Baby get Tier 1.
• It's an outlier: Bill gets Tier 1 only through that infinite boost.

Outliers do in fact happen, but by dismissing them we simply make them invalid for scaling, while still knowing that those happened and are canon.

How can I stonewall when I'm not a staff member, I barely care about the verse beside the fact it's a great show and that, ultimately, my opinion is unimportant?

Stonewall is spamming the same argument over and over, it's not something that only staff can do.

It may be a dumb question, but how can there be "code" inside a physical card?

It says that is holographic, so there are electronics.

that it’s not an outlier

1-C Pre-Weirdmageddon Bill. Ok lmao.

I don’t think my argument is one that goes against what he’s saying as you like to tout.

I directly talked with him on this. I can confirm that's what he thinks.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So you wanna say that both Bill knowing about Dennis and going into his dimension are outliers?

No, it's you basically trying to argue that Dennis has his own Mindscape, which is dumb.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I guess one could argue that Bill has real high AP but no range, I think

 

[SweetDao]

All that is or ever will be is encoded along this cheap card's glittering edge.

Weird stuff. Fitting for the verse, I suppose.

You do realize that you can't go in-between here, right?

• It's not an outlier: Bill and Time Baby get Tier 1.
• It's an outlier: Bill gets Tier 1 only through that infinite boost.

Outliers do in fact happen, but by dismissing them we simply make them invalid for scaling, while still knowing that those happened and are canon.

Is there a reason we can't go with the fact that, in a vaccum, the fight happened. Said fight is not an outlier regarding the event, but it is regarding the strength Bill and the Time Baby supposedly have? This way, we can reconcile both the fact that the fight happened, Dennis' reality being "higher" that the rest while still not scaling them to said reality to avoid inconsistencies plot wise?

Stonewall is spamming the same argument over and over, it's not something that only staff can do.

Yeah, perhaps, but assuming I'm asking stuff because I just want to "stonewall" when I want to understand how and why that works (or doesn't) seems like a dubious accusation.

It says that is holographic, so there are electronics.

Idk how cards like these works, so can't say much about this, "encoded" made me feel like it was a program inside the card or something.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I guess one could argue that Bill has real high AP but no range, I think

Bill called himself as being infinitely stronger thanks to Weirdmageddon.

Plus anything else puts Bill as like... Tier 5/3, a single feat won't do it chief.

Is there a reason we can't go with the fact that, in a vaccum, the fight happened. Said fight is not an outlier regarding the event, but it is regarding the strength Bill and the Time Baby supposedly have? This way, we can reconcile both the fact that the fight happened, Dennis' reality being "higher" that the rest while still not scaling them to said reality to avoid inconsistencies plot wise?

If it's an inconsistency, then Bill and TB going there is also an inconsistency. You can't cherrypick stuff for the sake of downplaying lol.

Idk how cards like these works, so can't say much about this, "encoded" made me feel like it was a program inside the card or something.

I know this isn't about GF anymore, but prolly is something like this.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I guess one could argue that Bill has real high AP but no range, I think

Same

No, it's you basically trying to argue that Dennis has his own Mindscape, which is dumb.

I mean, if real world - mindscape have such relationship, why can’t it be with Dennis - GF world?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, if real world - mindscape have such relationship, why can’t it be with Dennis - GF world?

Because the whole essay is about how fiction and reality influence each other through the mindscape.

There's no evidence it applies to also Dennis because "lol it mentioned fiction". You're taking a contextless line which has 0 correlation to Dennis.

 

[SweetDao]

If it's an inconsistency, then Bill and TB going there is also an inconsistency. You can't cherrypick stuff for the sake of downplaying lol.

Please, for the love of god, stop assuming that I am, or anyone, for the matter, is trying to "stonewall", "downplay" or whatever just because they are ASKING QUESTIONS.

Outliers do in fact happen, but by dismissing them we simply make them invalid for scaling, while still knowing that those happened and are canon.

We invalidate them for scaling, but it's not like it didn't happen. Anything that the characters could've "gained" from the event is rendered void while we still accepted the scene, and it's "validity".

Bill and Time Baby goes inside Dennis' Reality while fighting => Would be an antifeat for Dennis' reality and if we assume it's just a regular higher reality/dimensions it would still cause problem with the narrative since they would be "stronger" than the verse while the story proves the contrary.

We assume the fight still happened but Time Baby and Bill doesn't scale to it => Dennis' reality can't be accepted as 1-A, but would probably be accepted as a higher dimension (?) => Narrative is safe since TB and Bill will not scale to the stuff that happened, but we acknowledge what happened.

It seems, in my opinion, a better option that just disregarding everything to keep the "1-A".

I know this isn't about GF anymore, but prolly is something like this.

Interesting. Thank you for showing it to me!

 

[StrymULTRA]

We invalidate them for scaling, but it's not like it didn't happen. Anything that the characters could've "gained" from the event is rendered void while we still accepted the scene, and it's "validity".

Ok?

Bill and Time Baby goes inside Dennis' Reality while fighting => Would be an antifeat for Dennis' reality and if we assume it's just a regular higher reality/dimensions it would still cause problem with the narrative since they would be "stronger" than the verse while the story proves the contrary.

We assume the fight still happened but Time Baby and Bill doesn't scale to it => Dennis' reality can't be accepted as 1-A, but would probably be accepted as a higher dimension (?) => Narrative is safe since TB and Bill will not scale to the stuff that happened, but we acknowledge what happened.

It seems, in my opinion, a better option that just disregarding everything to keep the "1-A".

The point is that you already admitted that the whole thing is void, due to it being an outlier.

Nobody is saying the fight didn't happen. I just said that any implication from it is invalid due to it being an outlier nontheless, as if the whole feat got invalid (even them entering the 1-A world), then Dennis has simply no more reasons to not be 1-A.

You're just trying to go "safer" and applying your personal opinions over the words of a staff member (same one who made these standards, mind you) through this kind of overthinking that kinda goes against the standards themselves.

 

[SweetDao]

You're just trying to go "safer" and applying your personal opinions over the words of a staff member (same one who made these standards, mind you) through this kind of overthinking that kinda goes against the standards themselves.

Eh. I'll let the staff decide, I suppose my questions were answered. Good luck with the thread regardless!

 

[CodeCCLL]

The hypertimeline argument seems fine at first glance, I agree for now. But I may be missing something so I need to think about it.

R>F and new standards are not my area of interest so... no comment.

 

[ShionAH]

Stop, Bill will scale to the 1-A. I am talking to Ultima about it so calm down bros.

I would like @StrymULTRA to remove the 1-A for now and let me handle it later pretty please

+ My budgie just died, so I am crying and cannot look at the thread now.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Stop, Bill will scale to the 1-A. I am talking to Ultima about it so calm down bros.

I would like @StrymULTRA to remove the 1-A for now and let me handle it later pretty please

+ My budgie just died, so I am crying and cannot look at the thread now.

Depends. If Ultima will comment here on whatever stance he has on 1-A, then I won't exactly remove it from the thread.

However I'll put it on a hold on, and not touching it until he decides to touch it, I suppose.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree with putting 1-A for later, at least because it causes too much controversy and it’s better to have it in another thread.

+ My budgie just died, so I am crying and cannot look at the thread now.

Poor budgie, I feel for you

 

[StrymULTRA]

I updated the OP, and put 1-A under a freeze.

 

[StrymULTRA]

A last thing on 1-A, is that I'll just quote a friend of mine off-site:

My point is basically PIS is from author doing bs stuff, and not an outlier for Bill and TB. Its from the author's end, not from the characters' end. So author can make a planet level character break into a 1-A realm even though said character has no such power or abilities for that. It won't make the 1-A realm "unknown" or "not 1-A" at all. It'll just make the whole event invalid when it comes to scaling and stuff. So no antifeat at all, Because its not the power of the character doing this, it is the literal author of the series doing it for his bs purpose.

I am bringing this as I think it's pretty relevant in the discussion on 1-A, if Ultima continues. But outside of that it's still frozen and we should wait for him, I just am bringing this as I think it's a good point for the debate.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

My point is basically PIS is from author doing bs stuff, and not an outlier for Bill and TB. Its from the author's end, not from the characters' end. So author can make a planet level character break into a 1-A realm even though said character has no such power or abilities for that. It won't make the 1-A realm "unknown" or "not 1-A" at all. It'll just make the whole event invalid when it comes to scaling and stuff. So no antifeat at all, Because its not the power of the character doing this, it is the literal author of the series doing it for his bs purpose.

Tbf you can justify anything by just saying “author wanted it that way”. But let’s discuss that later.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Tbf you can justify anything by just saying “author wanted it that way”. But let’s discuss that later.

You can also do that for anything we consider an outlier ever which is kinda unrealistic for this wiki.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

+ My budgie just died, so I am crying and cannot look at the thread now.

my condolences

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Ultima also agreed with me on this

Don't use off-site screenshots of me as evidence.

Preferably take that out of the post.

 

[StrymULTRA]

 

[Monsters_fight]

I agree with this + Bump

 

[Aolphl]

Bump?

 

[Ezaru]

I don't see how the feat being an outlier means it can't be used to Debunk r>f

It still shows lower reality entities can trancend into that reality, making it not 1-A

Right?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Heck. It's only an outlier if you assume the real world has trancendence to the GF world anyway

The box or whatever is bigger than the entire multiverse and this is 5-B Bill?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The box or whatever is bigger than the entire multiverse and this is 5-B Bill?

5-B, possibly 3-C

 

[Ezaru]

The box or whatever is bigger than the entire multiverse and this is 5-B Bill?

Oh, is that version of Bill that weak? I havent seen the actual scene/read the book

Maybe traveling outside the multiverse isn't that hard though, the entire point of the standard revision being stricter is that theres a lot of series like this, like a creator losing to a cartoon

That doesn't mean the cartoon is 1-A, it's not an "outlier" its an anti-feat for the higher reality

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Oh, is that version of Bill that weak? I havent seen the actual scene/read the book

Buddy, before the book his Mindscape form was simply Unknown solely due to the fact that 2D beings can interact with 3D beings in GF.

Maybe traveling outside the multiverse isn't that hard though, the entire point of the standard revision being stricter is that theres a lot of series like this, like a creator losing to a cartoon

Shaking the card is an AP feat. Also it doesn't make sense for him to even have such Range of Dimensional Travel, as otherwise why didn't infinite amount of parallel Bills ever interfere with each other?

That doesn't mean the cartoon is 1-A, it's not an "outlier" its an anti-feat for the higher reality

OK, 14D Base Bill and Time Baby! (His Weirdmageddon Form is infinitely superior to his own base and was struggling against the 12D mech, and his rift cannot interfere with infinite amount of other Bills)

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'd like to add the fact that I'm waiting for the 1-A TTGL CRT to be completed first, because as discussed in DMs with @TheOrangeGuy09, we've found another possible anti feat (that being Ford describing the lower comic world as 2-Dimensional, and altering the comic alters the world in it, too, similar to how affecting the card affects the multiverse).

If that's indeed considered an anti feat (if 1-A TTGL is rejected), then I wouldn't mind Dennis being just 7D or 14D, however I'd avoid double standards.

Besides I think that the 11D thing would need more elaboration on why it's considered acceptable, it being the fact that beings inhabiting these dimensions possibly hints at these dimensions not being compactified but actually inhabitable.

Oh, is that version of Bill that weak? I havent seen the actual scene/read the book

Maybe traveling outside the multiverse isn't that hard though, the entire point of the standard revision being stricter is that theres a lot of series like this, like a creator losing to a cartoon

How is that only the people who don't know the verse disagree lmfao? Is this a raid?

No. Bill and TB physically moved the card holder containing the card, that's pretty much an AP feat, that however is a complete outlier for obvious af reason.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I'd like to add the fact that I'm waiting for the 1-A TTGL CRT to be completed first, because as discussed in DMs with @TheOrangeGuy09, we've found another possible anti feat (that being Ford describing the lower comic world as 2-Dimensional, and altering the comic alters the world in it, too, similar to how affecting the card affects the multiverse).

If that's indeed considered an anti feat (if 1-A TTGL is rejected), then I wouldn't mind Dennis being just 7D or 14D, however I'd avoid double standards.

Nah. The existence of the 2-D comic world wouldn't be an anti-feat considering it's at best a loosely connected or similar world off of vague similarities. Dennis's world is portrayed pretty much completely different in description.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Nah. The existence of the 2-D comic world wouldn't be an anti-feat considering it's at best a loosely connected or similar world off of vague similarities. Dennis's world is portrayed pretty much completely different in description.

It's not vague similarities when Ford literally says that they lose all width or tearing apart the book destroys the world inside.

I'd argue these being more how GF portrays these worlds ngl.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Nah. The existence of the 2-D comic world wouldn't be an anti-feat considering it's at best a loosely connected or similar world off of vague similarities. Dennis's world is portrayed pretty much completely different in description.

However, bear in mind that simple visual portrayals of a character viewing the world within some such construct are not enough to qualify. And so, for example, a cosmic entity being depicted as seeing the universe as a computer game "because this is the only way human minds can comprehend it" would not suffice, and likewise, neither would cases where a Reality/Fiction metaphor is simply used as an analogy for higher dimensions.

The point is: if the gap between comic (fiction) and main cast (reality) is a dimensional gap, this should also be the case for the Dennys-card relationship.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

The point is: if the gap between comic (fiction) and main cast (reality) is a dimensional gap, this should also be the case for the Dennys-card relationship.

The comic book falls under the first sentence under what you sent so there's no R>F in the first place as simply viewing something as a comic isn't enough to infer R>F. Meanwhile Dennis's world explicitly views the lower world as fiction or illusory.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

It's not vague similarities when Ford literally says that they lose all width or tearing apart the book destroys the world inside.

I'd argue these being more how GF portrays these worlds ngl.

It's not really a crazy or unique idea that destroying the higher representation of some lower plane of reality would destroy said plane of reality. Really the comic book world and Dennis's world are pretty isolated from each other.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Meanwhile Dennis's world explicitly views the lower world as fiction or illusory.

Implying that comics aren't fictional

Wowza.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Wowza.

same reason that simply viewing something as a game board or tv show wouldn't inherently be R>F

 

[StrymULTRA]

same reason that simply viewing something as a game board or tv show wouldn't inherently be R>F

There are two very similar portrayals of fictional mediums with the exact same parameters, one being clearly hinted as being a dimensional gap

"Huh achthually is not the same because huh... huh... I say so!"

You're just making up excuses now, come tf on.

That said, I'll just wait for the TTGL case to be solved.

 

[ThanatosX]

I'd like to add the fact that I'm waiting for the 1-A TTGL CRT to be completed first, because as discussed in DMs with @TheOrangeGuy09, we've found another possible anti feat (that being Ford describing the lower comic world as 2-Dimensional, and altering the comic alters the world in it, too, similar to how affecting the card affects the multiverse).

If that's indeed considered an anti feat (if 1-A TTGL is rejected), then I wouldn't mind Dennis being just 7D or 14D, however I'd avoid double standards.

Tbh, that thread seems to be dead since the last post was on September, so I highly doubt it will ever reach a proper conclusion.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tbh, that thread seems to be dead since the last post was on September, so I highly doubt it will ever reach a proper conclusion.

I suppose we can use this thread as a way to determine the TTGL one then.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ngl 1-B might be more solid if gaps between dimensions are described as being superior/inferior like that, thus removing the doubt of the 11D being relevant in size.