Bleach Revisions Part 2: Arrancar Arc

[Peter1129]

@Sigurd Dude we literally see Nnoitra matching Nel in speed after he got over the surprising reappearance of Nel in her true form in chapter 293. And going by what you said if Nel was fighting with a time limit than the fact that she had to use Resurrección means she wasn't sure if she could beat Nnoitra before time is up. Which makes no sense as NEO didn't even realize she had a time limit. Also you do realize that Base Nel being Low 6-B means she's stronger than Base Ulquiorra, Base Harribel, Base Barragan, and Base Starrk? Do you realize how big of a scaling problem that would be? The current Espadas are literally the strongest Espadas at the time of the Arrancar Arc. It makes absolutely no sense for a former #3 to be stronger than the current #4-1.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. They scale to the same speed mostly so it doesn't mean much.

2. No it means she realized he's stronger now which is fact since he's a damn tank. she was even surprised he was still standing.

3. We have very little information about any of the previous Espada except that Szayel was 0 at one point. The only time we've seen them interact is in the novel and they're all comparable to each other.

 

[Peter1129]

I can't believe I've been arguing about this for so long. I don't have time for this I still need to study so whatever you guys do whatever you want with Nel even if it makes no sense. I'll just come back for the other stuff on the revision sometime tomorrow.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Okay.

 

[USklaverei]

So, we are forgetting about Cien and Azashiro here.

70% Cien was compared to Full Hollow Ichigo by Uryu, with 30% already superior to Yammy. Zaraki was able to fight head-on against Cien 70% and in his fight against Azashiro it is said that he reached the height of his power (before he had his Shikai), so they scale for many things here, but I think that would be better in next review, I don't know;

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

They're not a part of this.

 

[Aernasilver]

Hasn't been fully translated and can have a thread on its own.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

So, we are forgetting about Cien and Azashiro here.
70% Cien was compared to Full Hollow Ichigo by Uryu, with 30% already superior to Yammy. Zaraki was able to fight head-on against Cien 70% and in his fight against Azashiro it is said that he reached the height of his power (before he had his Shikai), so they scale for many things here, but I think that would be better in next review, I don't know;

We going in order so after this it would be either FKT then Fullbring, TYBW then novels

 

[USklaverei]

Okay, shouldn't Gin climb to Relativistic? Even Ichigo using his Hollowfication, Gin still o defeated

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Is the Yama thing still being brought up ? If so let me put my two cents...Yama survived a attack he did to kill Himself, Aizen, every single Captain there aka Unohana, Shunsui, Ukitake, Toshiro, Shinji, Love, Rojuro, Sajin and every other lieutenant, Espada and Fraccion ALONG with a area multiple times bigger than Karakura. This is some C0 stuff if anything and the fact Yamamoto survived AT ALL is what's impressive anr then Aizen even mentally says (In the anime i believe not sure about the manga) that he underestimated Yama after he used the Hado 96 meaning that Aizen actually expected that Yama could survive but not that he could still pull out such a high level move.

Also a comment for the thing with Nelliel...Isn't her power just constantly leaking which means she is just getting weaker as the fight drags on ?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Yeah he did say he underestimated Yama in the manga. [[1]]

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

So, we are forgetting about Cien and Azashiro here.
70% Cien was compared to Full Hollow Ichigo by Uryu, with 30% already superior to Yammy. Zaraki was able to fight head-on against Cien 70% and in his fight against Azashiro it is said that he reached the height of his power (before he had his Shikai), so they scale for many things here, but I think that would be better in next review, I don't know;

Not translated and not part of this.

 

[Purgy]

Does anybody still have any issues that haven't been discussed?

 

[Zezu1995]

new to topic question is there a point to the whole espada 10 dodging that light or does it not matter? not sure if this was discused already

 

[Purgy]

I'm not sure what you mean, Yammy dodged light?

 

[Zezu1995]

wrong number sorry that guy who fought rukia i think it was 9? the guy with 2 heads and copied kaizen face from squad 13

 

[Purgy]

wrong number sorry that guy who fought rukia i think it was 9? the guy with 2 heads and copied kaizen face from squad 13

Oh. There was a calc about it but Damage stopped responding to USklaverei so I dunno if it's useable.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

That calc and feat aren't valid, so no need to bring it up.

 

[Purgy]

Somebody was asking about the feat and that's the only calc I know of for it... Why isn't it valid btw?

 

[Zoro21043]

i still cant understand post ress ichigo with hollow mask being lower than isshin and the other captains , it was literraly said that he could sense transcended aizens reatsu while isshin couldnt

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

He literally couldn't do anything to Aizen in a weaker form or beat Gin.

 

[Zoro21043]

He literally couldn't do anything to Aizen in a weaker form or beat Gin.

he was able to damage base aizen with a getsuga tenshou while in hollow mask before aizen revealing that he knew about ichigo from the moment he was born , while the other captains couldnt do much

and we dont know much about gin

 

[Purgy]

Ichigo was also pretty confident that he'd be able to beat Gin.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Aizen let him use Getsuga to see how strong he'd gotten right before his speech and despair.

Also Ichigo was getting shit on by Gin who wasn't even using his real power.

 

[Zoro21043]

there i also the statement unohana gave about ichigo being on the same level as her

why is that considered an outlier? The author is intending on making ichigo on her level with 50% reiatsu , or why would retsu say that if its not the case , if she only said that to ichigo only then maybe she wanted to make ichigo more confident , but she also says it in her own head again

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Because too many things don't make sense if that were true. You have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Zoro21043]

Aizen let him use Getsuga to see how strong he'd gotten right before his speech and despair.
Also Ichigo was getting shit on by Gin who wasn't even using his real power.

Even yamamoto caught aizen and used hado 96 which barely damaged aizen compared to that ichigos getsuga

and aizen took both attacks head on so based on that are you implying yamamoto < other captains?

and we dont know much about gin i think we shouldnt really compare

and we still have that statement about ichigo having a higher reatsu than isshin

 

[Zoro21043]

Because too many things don't make sense if that were true. You have to look at the bigger picture.

if you are talking about the novels idk didnt read them

 

[Purgy]

?

 

[Aernasilver]

@Zoro: You're implying that Gin is above Aizen. Which is a no. And what does not knowing much about Gin even mean?

 

[Zoro21043]

@Zoro: You're implying that Gin is above Aizen. Which is a no. And what does not knowing much about Gin even mean?

by not knowing about gin i meant we never saw the full extent of his abilities as we didnt see him fight much and gin is really strong (damaged 3rd fusion form aizen and almost killed him if not for hogyoku , the argument of aizen decreasing his reiatsu can be debunked as aizen couldve just increased his reatsu to negate that hax after being hit by it , as he told soi fon he could overcome her silly ability by just flexing his reiatsu , but the reason gin was able to do that is probably because aizen wanted to transcend and he let him )

and i didnt imply gin>aizen as i didnt mean ichigo= aizen for sensing his reiatsu i meant he was higher than isshin who couldnt sense it thats what i meant , and based on that ichigo should get at least 6B not low 6B as isshin is 6B

 

[Aernasilver]

Yes, but Gin is not someone special, tbh he might even be your average or above average Captain. Like you said Aizen let him do it so that doesn't count.

Ichigo was getting rekt by Gin so he doesn't scale to them.

 

[Zoro21043]

Yes, but Gin is not someone special, tbh he might even be your average or above average Captain. Like you said Aizen let him do it so that doesn't count.
Ichigo was getting rekt by Gin so he doesn't scale to them.

where is the support for gin being average/above average captain? he was someone who knew most about aizens huge power and was still willing to try to kill him

we dont have him fighting much unlike other captains to judge him

and ichigo wasnt really getting rekt it was mostly a speed game and gin is really fast as he was able to hit aizen with his ability (we have no support for aizen letting gin hit him , we have support for aizen not negating the hax only as he probably wanted to transcend )

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The only reason Gin hurt Hogyoku Aizen is because Aizen was lowering his power. Aizen literally admits he had been lowering his power to such a level that Tatsuki could sense him so he could make them despair and have fun chasing them while waiting for Ichigo. That's when Gin struck him.

Post Res Ichigo < Gin with Bankai based on their fight.

Not holding back Base Aizen > Both of them.

 

[Purgy]

I agree with Zoro. Gin wasn't really wrecking Ichigo, the entire fight was just Gin demonstrating how fast his Bankai is, Ichigo also didn't really use his mask and when he did it was pretty much off-screen and the end was Ichigo getting depressed by Gin telling him that he's not mentally prepared to fight Aizen.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

He did nothing to Gin, even with his mask he got off screened by Gin who came out unscathed with blood dripping off his blade.

 

[Zoro21043]

The only reason Gin hurt Hogyoku Aizen is because Aizen was lowering his power. Aizen literally admits he had been lowering his power to such a level that Tatsuki could sense him so he could make them despair and have fun chasing them while waiting for Ichigo. That's when Gin struck him.
Post Res Ichigo < Gin with Bankai based on their fight.

Not holding back Base Aizen > Both of them.

i agreed on aizen lowering himself and thats how he got hurt , but about ichigo being unable to touch gin was because of speed and we didnt see aizen who was far higher than ichigo be able to react to the bloodlusted gin


and again i see people not giving credit to the unohana statement because of ichigo <gin but we shouldnt ignore that just because we think gin<unohana as we never got to see gin fight as much compared to other captains

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Gin was wrecking the shit out of Ichigo, I have no idea what manga you read if you think otherwise.

The fight literally plays out with Ichigo struggling to keep up with Gin's Bankai and being scared that if Gin aims it at him then Ichigo will die due to the power it had. Ichigo was literally on the defense being pushed back and was only on the offense once which was when he used Getsuga that Gin tanked. Gin was even launching Ichigo back into buildings as seen when Ichigo is sent into a building by Isshin and Aizen.

Then Gin began using Buto and Buto Renjin which required Ichigo to use Hollowfication to keep up. The next time we see them Gin has blood on his Zanpakuto and Ichigo no longer is Hollowfied and defeated.

THEN Gin starts telling Ichigo off that he's not prepared.

Gin will be scaling above Post-Res Ichigo, nothing says otherwise.

 

[Zoro21043]

Gin was wrecking the shit out of Ichigo, I have no idea what manga you read if you think otherwise.
The fight literally plays out with Ichigo struggling to keep up with Gin's Bankai and being scared that if Gin aims it at him then Ichigo will die due to the power it had. Ichigo was literally on the defense being pushed back and was only on the offense once which was when he used Getsuga that Gin tanked. Gin was even launching Ichigo back into buildings as seen when Ichigo is sent into a building by Isshin and Aizen.

Then Gin began using Buto and Buto Renjin which required Ichigo to use Hollowfication to keep up. The next time we see them Gin has blood on his Zanpakuto and Ichigo no longer is Hollowfied and defeated.

THEN Gin starts telling Ichigo off that he's not prepared.

Gin will be scaling above Post-Res Ichigo, nothing says otherwise.

agree with most of what you said , and i agree with gin>post ress ichigo

i forgot how we got into talking about gin but my original point was post ress ichigo should have a higher rating or at least equal to isshin and the other captains

 

[YukaSama4]

You want that ichigo to be higher than isshin and urahara who are comparable to Base Aizen? Gin > ichigo > Aizen, kisuke and isshin? Doesn't make any sense.