Bleach Revisions Part 2: Arrancar Arc

[Zoro21043]

You want that ichigo to be higher than isshin and urahara who are comparable to Base Aizen? Gin > ichigo > Aizen, kisuke and isshin? Doesn't make any sense.

base aizen>ichigo>isshin with gin being unknown

i doubt that aizen was really fighting seriously against isshin

isshin who couldnt sense aizens reiatsu after transcending when ichigo could

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Ichigo isn't scaling above Isshin when he could barely cut Base Aizen.

Isshin scales to Base Aizen.

Gin scales above Ichigo.

Ichigo doesn't scale to Isshin.

 

[Zoro21043]

Ichigo isn't scaling above Isshin when he could barely cut Base Aizen.
Isshin scales to Base Aizen.

Gin scales above Ichigo.

Ichigo doesn't scale to Isshin.

rewatched the talk ichigo had with isshin it is obvious that isshin couldnt sense aizens reiatsu and that ichigo could

and we cant be sure that aizen was even serious while the author himself indicates ichigo>isshin based on their chat , yes ik that isshin was also not serious as he didnt use either bankai or shikai but that same isshin is geting a 6B rating and ichigo being lower isnt making much sense to me

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

That sensing doesn't mean jack shit dude, feats say otherwise when Ichigo could barely cut Aizen and Isshin was keeping up with Aizen and actually fighting him. Ichigo couldn't even react to Aizen move.

 

[Zoro21043]

That sensing doesn't mean jack shit dude, feats say otherwise when Ichigo could barely cut Aizen and Isshin was keeping up with Aizen and actually fighting him. Ichigo couldn't even react to Aizen move.

sensing does mean a lot and the author uses it multiple times like people being unable to sense aizen even in tybw where kisuke says its possible that aizen got even stronger AFTER he used kurohitsugi which supports the idea that kisuke couldnt sense aizen , and also in aizen vs ichigo aizen says that he still cant sense ichigos reiatsu after ichigo enters mugetsu ,and his reiatsu can be seen and aizen questions and says could it be that he has even reached a higher level than I have


reiatsu sensing means a lot if u think about it

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Being unable to be sensed is what matters. That indicates transcendence.

Ichigo's feats were worse than Isshin, this discussion is done, dude. Ichigo is not scaling above Isshin when he performed worse against Aizen when Isshin was keeping up.

 

[Purgy]

Ichigo being able to sense Aizen when everyone else couldn't does mean something though, you're just saying it doesn't because it disagrees with your scaling. How does Ichigo "barely" cut Aizen? There's clear indication that Ichigo's mental state was affecting his performance, Aizen pretty much comments on this when he says "You should be stronger than this" and Ichigo is literally having PTSD just from sensing his power, something nobody else except him could do. Gin even says Ichigo is afraid of Aizen and combined with the little "I literally controlled your life, everything you did was planned by me" speech Aizen gave, I think there's a pretty good argument to say Ichigo wasn't at his best mentally which affected him. I mean Gin literally comments in their fight that Ichigo has already given up. This isn't the first time Ichigo's mental state has greatly hindered his power either, iirc Rukia snapped him out of that originally.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Nothing of that makes Ichigo physically weaker, less durable or slower.

Against Aizen the absolute best he could do was a Hollowfied Getsuga strike that cuts Aizen's shoulder and that's it. Immediately after this and before Aizen was moving too fast for Hollowfied Ichigo to react to. Ichigo hadn't even been told about Aizen's plans in these incidents. So your argument already falls apart since Ichigo wasn't impacted and still has worse feats against Aizen.

Isshin straight up has better feats than a perfectly fine Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo did when he was fighting Aizen.

Stop derailing this thread with nonsense.

 

[Purgy]

Nothing of that makes Ichigo physically weaker, less durable or slower.
Against Aizen the absolute best he could do was a Hollowfied Getsuga strike that cuts Aizen's shoulder and that's it. Immediately after this and before Aizen was moving too fast for Hollowfied Ichigo to react to. Ichigo hadn't even been told about Aizen's plans in these incidents. So your argument already falls apart since Ichigo wasn't impacted and still has worse feats against Aizen.

Isshin straight up has better feats than a perfectly fine Hollowfied Bankai Ichigo did when he was fighting Aizen.

Stop derailing this thread with nonsense.

Apparently discussing the threads topic is derailing now? Okay. As I said, I'm pretty sure Ichigo had a brief period of depression shortly before this that Rukia helped him overcome, and yes it made him much weaker to the point where he struggled to beat a fodder Hollow. How does my argument fall apart? I didn't mention Aizen's "Plans" once because it's irrelevant, he could sense his strength and he gave up because he thought there was no chance of defeating him as stated by Gin. I can get into why Isshin shouldn't scale to Aizen if you really want, I was planning to anyway tbh.

 

[Aernasilver]

All these scans you posted you conveniently left out context for them.

Aizen let Ichigo strike him and that "wound" he gave Aizen he didn't get a shit about and even said it wasn't a wound.

 

[Purgy]

All these scans you posted you conveniently left out context for them.
Aizen let Ichigo strike him and that "wound" he gave Aizen he didn't get a shit about and even said it wasn't a wound.

Can you show me Aizen stating he let Ichigo cut him? You do realize that the wound was only irrelevant due to the Hogyoku Regenerationn? He still did a decent amount of damage to Aizen who without the Hogyoku wouldn't have just healed from it. Aizen sure makes a good shocked face for something he was letting happen, and it's funny how he calls it his last vulnerability, which wouldn't make sense if he let it happen.

 

[Purgy]

Here's Ichigo being heavily nerfed due to his mental state, doubting himself and convictions, anybody saying Ichigo wouldn't be weaker after all the evidence I've posted is lying to themselves.


His mental state clearly effects his power and ability to fight.

 

[Purgy]

Final nail in the coffin since I just remembered it.

 

[Zoro21043]

You already know but ill say it

I agree with purgy

 

[Purgy]

Sorry if I'm spamming.

Ever find it weird that Gin commented on Ichigo's eyes as Gin was dying? Well, it's likely due to the fact that when Gin fought Ichigo previously, he could see that Ichigo wasn't determined to win and had given up. But of course Dangai Ichigo was absolutely determined to kick Aizen's ass, hence Gin saying "His eyes are stronger", meaning he's more determined and focused etc. Just wanted to mention this to further prove my argument.

 

[Zoro21043]

i think this should also support/prove the statement that unohana gave wasnt bs

 

[Purgy]

i think this should also support/prove the statement that unohana gave wasnt bs

What statement?

 

[Zoro21043]

i think this should also support/prove the statement that unohana gave wasnt bs

What statement?

while ichigo and unohana were on their way to fake karakura town unohana stated that ichigo with half his shihakushou had similiar reiatsu to herself

 

[Sekkonds.]

Yeah and iirc aizen stated that his reiatsu are the double of captain level shinigami,proving that ichigo's reiatsu is on aizen's level

 

[Purgy]

Yeah and iirc aizen stated that his reiatsu are the double of captain level shinigami,proving that ichigo's reiatsu is on aizen's level

I think it said you need at least double a Captains Reiatsu to use the Hogyoku, it's possible Aizen has a lot more than that, that's just the minimum requirement.

 

[Zoro21043]

Yeah and iirc aizen stated that his reiatsu are the double of captain level shinigami,proving that ichigo's reiatsu is on aizen's level

i beleive u are referring to where he touched the hogyoku to make wonderweiss you are right but here is what he exactly said , ( if the hogyoku is joined with someone twice the spirit energy of a captain for a short time its full power is released)

that doesnt mean he had double that shows he had at least double so it supports this even more

 

[Purgy]

I'm not sure how I feel about Ichigo having over twice Unohana's Spiritual Energy though tbh. Whilst I certainly think Ichigo should be scaled higher than he is currently in this thread, to say he's over twice as strong as one of the oldest and strongest Captains in Bleach might be pushing it. Did Kubo even come up with Unohana's backstory at this point? Usually I don't like saying that an author just didn't think that far ahead but it's the only thing I can think of, except calling it an outlier which I'm not going to do.

 

[The_Causality]

Road to 400 replies

 

[Zoro21043]

I'm not sure how I feel about Ichigo having over twice Unohana's Spiritual Energy though tbh. Whilst I certainly think Ichigo should be scaled higher than he is currently in this thread, to say he's over twice as strong as one of the oldest and strongest Captains in Bleach might be pushing it. Did Kubo even come up with Unohana's backstory at this point? Usually I don't like saying that an author just didn't think that far ahead but it's the only thing I can think of, except calling it an outlier which I'm not going to do.

kubo had already decided on unohanas backstory as when kenpachi lost to ichigo we get a mini flashback where he tells little girl yachiru

(Yachiru the name of the only person i cared about/respected ill give it to you)

i opened a manga scan that says cared about(on google not viz) but in anime sub it said respected


so it was clearly forshadowed and kubo had decided way before unohana even said that to ichigo

 

[Purgy]

I guess it could make sense then. I mean, Unohana said Ichigo has over twice her Spiritual Energy and not Spiritual Pressure.

Spiritual Energy = The maximum amount of energy a character has

Spiritual Pressure = The amount of force/pressure somebody's Spiritual Energy creates

Ichigo having twice Unohana's Spiritual Energy doesn't necessarily make him twice as strong as her. I hope I got this right, I always mix the two up, partly due to Kubo himself actually mixing them up sometimes in the manga.

 

[Zoro21043]

so is post ress ichigo gonna be accepted as > that isshin thus becoming 6B or at least 6B???

 

[Sekkonds.]

Ichigo scales to country anyway,he did a pretty good fight with yammi and was able to hurt him

 

[USklaverei]

I realized that the Second Stage Ulquiorra multiplier was ignored, but why?

Considering a 5x up, this would be:

Ulquiorra

Speed: Relativistic (0.12c) in Resurrection, 5x Second Stage = Relativistic + (0.61c)

Ichigo Full Hollow

Speed: At least Relativistic + (0.61c), Possibly FTL (1.23c) full power

That would escalate only to Aizen, Isshin, Kisuke, Yoruichi, Dangai Ichigo (Maybe Yama and Wonderweiss?)

Furthermore, it would make the scale much more precise, since characters like Yama and Kisuke have the same phase, Base Aizen being compared to characters in the novel like Byakuya and Tokinada.

 

[Zoro21043]

I realized that the Second Stage Ulquiorra multiplier was ignored, but why?
Considering a 5x up, this would be:

Ulquiorra

Speed: Relativistic (0.12c) in Resurrection, 5x Second Stage = Relativistic + (0.61c)

Ichigo Full Hollow

Speed: At least Relativistic + (0.61c), Possibly FTL (1.23c) full power

That would escalate only to Aizen, Isshin, Kisuke, Yoruichi, Dangai Ichigo (Maybe Yama and Wonderweiss?)

Furthermore, it would make the scale much more precise, since characters like Yama and Kisuke have the same phase, Base Aizen being compared to characters in the novel like Byakuya and Tokinada.

segunda etapa has a x10 multiplier, or was it changed?


and what do u think of what purgy and i said about post ress ichigo upgrading to at least 6B ?

 

[USklaverei]

segunda etapa has a x10 multiplier, or was it changed?

I think we always use the low ball, so 5x is better.

and what do u think of what purgy and i said about post ress ichigo upgrading to at least 6B ?

But, Ichigo will scale to 6-B in any way I believe, if not at least Low 6-B

 

[Zoro21043]

i beleive the x10 was accepted let me search for it

 

[Zoro21043]

You're missing like quite a lot of multipliers.
These are all the multipliers that have been accepted on the multiplier thread.

2x multiplier: Post-2nd Resurrection Bankai Ichigo Shihakushou, Yammy Resurrección 2nd Form

5x multiplier: Gentei Kaijou, Bankai, Resurrección, Hollowfication, Vollständig, Hisagi's Shikai

7x multiplier: Kenpachi's Shikai

10x multiplier: Buto Renjin, Yammy's Resurrección, Mask's Star Crest, Cero Oscuras, Segunda Etapa (Only if Lanza is not accepted due to outlier)

Unknown multiplier: Kenpachi's eyepatch

here

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

These are all the multipliers that have been accepted on the multiplier thread.

2x multiplier: Post-2nd Resurrection Bankai Ichigo Shihakushou, Yammy Resurrección 2nd Form

5x multiplier: Gentei Kaijou, Bankai, Resurrección, Hollowfication, Vollständig, Hisagi's Shikai

7x multiplier: Kenpachi's Shikai

10x multiplier: Buto Renjin, Yammy's Resurrección, Mask's Star Crest, Cero Oscuras, Segunda Etapa (Only if Lanza is not accepted due to outlier)

Unknown multiplier: Kenpachi's eyepatch

 

[USklaverei]

Second Stage should be at least equal to Resurrección and would make the scale much more consistent.

 

[Zoro21043]

Second Stage should be at least equal to Resurrección and would make the scale much more consistent.

im new to this wiki but why low ball when it has been accepted ?

 

[Ovy7]

IIRC, it was decided to be 10x because Ulq can spam attacks much stronger than his SE Cero Oscuras which already is 10x Cero, or something like that.

 

[USklaverei]

Considering 10x;

Ulquiorra

Speed: FTL (1.23c)

Full Hollow Ichigo

Speed: At least FTL (1.23c), higher full power (2.46c)

 

[Ovy7]

Not sure if the speed is also a 10x, as the people only discussed the AP boost

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Not sure if the speed is also a 10x, as the people only discussed the AP boost

Well it depends

 

[Zoro21043]

it should apply to speed as before segunda etapa ichigo could kind of react to ulquiorra iirc but when he went into segunda etapa he blitzed ichigo