Bleach Revisions Part 2: Arrancar Arc

[Zoro21043]

It's not literally a country but it has a diameter of 229km,and iirc only few espada has GRC

so shouldnt grimmjaw be higher than 6C as he can use GRC

what will happen with this

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Alright so my first problem with this revision. The Espadas. Espada 4-0 in their Resurreccion should be Low 6-B (3.366 Teratons) not 6-B (33.66 Teratons).

I agree, all Espada in base should scale through their Resurreccion Cero being 10 times lower than Cero Oscuras.

The only characters who scale directly to Cero Oscuras is Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra...
That's false, the Cero Oscuras that was calc'd was by Resurreccion Ulquiorra, so the higher Espada's Cero Oscuras scales.

 

[Peter1129]

I kinda forgot about the high Espadas Cero Oscuras. I was just talking about those who fully scale to it rather than with one attack.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Already saw that but I really think we should also add the keys for characters by arcs rather than stuffing them all in one revision later on. Cause you're bound to leave out one or two characaters if you are adding new stuff to a whole bunch of profiles altogether in one revision. This way we will only be adding 10 or so keys at once which will be much easier to handle than doing 30+ keys on many different profiles later on.

The keys are being added by arc for those that aren't like Yama who needs no keys.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

These are the scans regarding Nnoitra's Hierro.

1, 2, 3, and 4

4 scans all stating the same thing therefore consistent. I got these from IMade btw if anyone was wondering.

 

[Aernasilver]

I don't see the problem with Ichigo scaling to Kenny in the ss arc.

After his bankai training he fought Byakuya who should be comparable to Kenny and even before the training he was able to fight Kenny. So how does after training make him weaker?

Nel is 6-B for casually slicing apart Nnoitra Hierro which is stated multiple times to be the strongest in the manga and databook as you can see from Sigurds posts so he scales to the Espada in durability.

Ulquiorra fully scales to oscuras as he was casually using it and can spam it. So with that logic 0-3 who are above him scales to it too. They do not scale to Segunda.

 

[Damage3245]

Strongest Hierro only applies to their base forms, right?

We don't know that he's comparing his Hierro to their released forms, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Purgy]

Why would it only apply to base? It doesn't make that distinction so why should we. It's clearly just stating he has the strongest Hierro in general.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Doesn't make a distinction, so why would we randomly come up with one? it says he overall has the strongest one.

 

[Peter1129]

@Aernasilver Kenpachi's whole shtick before his training with Unohana was that he actively changes his power lvl to match his enemy. Pre-Bankai Training Ichigo barely defeating a weaker Kenpachi doesn't mean Post-Bankai Training Ichigo suddenly scales to a stronger Kenpachi with much better feats. He merely scales above his Pre-Bankai Training self.

Espadas 4-0 only scale to 1/10 of the Cero Oscuras. And Nel merely surprised Nnoitra with her sudden appearance. Later on it's shown that Nnoitra and Nel are comparable to each other in Base. He even ate his own cero being reflected back with Nel's cero added onto it. So if Nnoitra's durability is the highest among the Espadas than I'd say Neliel cutting him should just be chalked up to surprise cause otherwise there would be scaling problems.

According to IMade no he doesn't Cero Oscuras is an attack that is order of magnitudes (10x) stronger than a normal cero. So Espadas 4-0 only scale to 1/10 of it. Only Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra, Zangetsu possessed Ichigo and Espada 4-0's Cero Oscuras fully scale to Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras which is 6-B.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Hierro is a passive thing, how would that be possible?

 

[Aernasilver]

And that Post-Bankai training went on to fight Byakuya who should be comparable to Kenny. As we see in the arrancar arc they are relative to each other.

Hierro is passive.

No cero is an order of magnitude lower than Oscuras. Not the other way around. And I just explained why Res Ulq fully scales to oscuras, unless you can explain why he doesn't. So with that 0-3 being above him also scales fully to oscuras.

 

[Peter1129]

Hierro is a passive thing, how would that be possible?

Well here's the problem if we don't consider that an outlier

Base Nel cut Base Nnoitra.

Base Nnoitra tanks his own cero being reflected back with Nel's added onto it.

Base Nel was shown to be comparable to Base Nnoitra.

Resurreccion Nel's spear only made a small hole on Base Nnoitra's body.

So Base Nel cutting Base Nnoitra is an outlier unless she is suddenly stronger than 2x her original power (Cero Doble) or 5x her original power (Resurrección) in Base.

 

[Peter1129]

@Aernersilver That Ichigo later went on to fight Byakuya who was stated to be slightly stronger than the Kenpachi that fought Ichigo not the Kenpachi that fought Komamura and Tosen.

Look at comment above.

Dude IMade was the one that said the Espadas don't fully scale to Cero Oscuras. And he also agreed in this thread that they should only scale to 1/10 of it.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Outlier is a whole other thing.

But yeah it's possible.

 

[Purgy]

Is it possible that since Nel only just regained the form that she couldn't control her power properly? Would explain what happened better than just calling it an outlier.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Yeah.

 

[Aernasilver]

At this point we're just gonna have to agree to disagree. But if more people agree with you then that's fine.

Not sure could be possible.

Idk what to tell you mate. Imade help with the scaling. He probably miss remembered.

 

[Peter1129]

Is it possible that since Nel only just regained the form that she couldn't control her power properly? Would explain what happened better than just calling it an outlier.

If we accept the fact that Nnoitra has higher durability than all the other Espadas than that would 100% make this an outlier. Since Nnoitra scales directly to Nel. If Base Nel is Low 6-B for hurting Nnoitra than this would make Base Nnoitra Low 6-B for being on par with her. But Low 6-B Base Espadas during the Arrancar Arc makes 0 sense. So no matter how you spin it it will be an outlier.

Also the argument that Nel can't control her power makes no sense at all. She was fully capable of using her powers and abilities and even going Resurrección right after she regained her adult form.

 

[Purgy]

Is it possible that since Nel only just regained the form that she couldn't control her power properly? Would explain what happened better than just calling it an outlier.

If we accept the fact that Nnoitra has higher durability than all the other Espadas than that would 100% make this an outlier. Since Nnoitra scales directly to Nel. If Base Nel is Low 6-B for hurting Nnoitra than this would make Base Nnoitra Low 6-B for being on par with her. But Low 6-B Base Espadas during the Arrancar Arc makes 0 sense. So no matter how you spin it it will be an outlier.

Nnoitra doesn't scale to Nel though, Nel was slapping him the entire fight and he didn't injure her once, it doesn't say anywhere in this thread for Nnoitra that he scales to Nel, Nel scales above Nnoitra. Reading the fight again though, it does seem pretty dumb that base Nel did more damage to Nnoitra than resurreccion Nel did.

 

[Peter1129]

Dude in chapter 292 right after tanking the Cero Doble head on this is what he said. And he actually proves it by pushing her back and matching her. Here we even see that Nel is huffing which shows she's actually trying in her fight with Base Nnoitra.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Bit busy atm, but to add my points I'm the one who made the Nnoitra and Nel revisions since I provided the scans for Nnoitra having the highest durability.

Nel was holding the upper hand that fight and was casually hurting Nnoitra while even holding back. Nnoitra doesn't scale to he, she scales above him.

 

[Peter1129]

Dude in chapter 292 right after tanking the Cero Doble head on this is what he said. And he actually proves it by pushing her back and matching her. Here we even see that Nel is huffing which shows she's actually trying in her fight with Base Nnoitra.

^Nnoitra and Nel are comparable to each other with Nnoitra potentially even having the upper hand since Nel was later shown to be pushed back and was out of breath while Nnoitra was mostly fine even after eating a Cero Doble with his cero + Nel's cero

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I should mention that the reason that her lanza didn't do so much damage is because he blocked it, but it still went through his zanpakuto and pierced him.

Also she literally just got her power back, didn't even want to use res. And based off her statement she wasn't even trying to kill him.

 

[Purgy]

Dude in chapter 292 right after tanking the Cero Doble head on this is what he said. And he actually proves it by pushing her back and matching her. Here we even see that Nel is huffing which means she's actually trying to fight Base Nnoitra.

Empty words that his feats don't back up.

I said he didn't injure her, pushing somebody back isn't really all that impressive.

This pretty much states Nel isn't at her best due to only just regaining her original form, "I thought it might be hard on me", e.g I didn't think my body could take it e.g I'm not at my peak yet. There's clear indication that she isn't at her absolute best as shown by how she's out of breath and she's barely been fighting 5 minutes.

 

[Peter1129]

How is it empty words when he actually backs it up by keeping up with Nel?

Also he clearly injured her you can clearly see that Nel has wounds on her face. Even though she didn't have any when she first appeared.

She's saying that she didn't want to use her Resurrección so soon after regaining her body. Not that her Base was much weaker than before. If it was than Nnoitra would've said she's weaker than she was in the past but he didn't.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

you're not seriously calling that an injury right?

 

[Purgy]

lol

 

[Peter1129]

That's still an injury even if it's a small one.

 

[Purgy]

That's still an injury even if it's a small one.

So Nnoitra "possibly" putting a little scratch on Nel means he fully scales to her? Nnoitra's Hierro >> Nel's and Nel did significantly more damage to him than he did to her, and as Sigurd said, Nel never actually wanted to kill Nnoitra. I think it's pretty obvious Nel is superior to Nnoitra from what was shown.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That's a serious stretch right there to suggest he scales to her based off that panel.

It's a fact that Nel holds back against him, she even states she wasn't going to kill him right before she depowered. Just like way back then.

 

[LordWhis]

lol

Anyone scaling to this is idiotic.

 

[Peter1129]

You guys are seriously still believing that Nel is vastly stronger than Nnoitra despite the fact that later on we see that Nnoitra can push her back with Nel even showing a somewhat concerned face. Plus we see they both managed to almost land a hit on each other before they stopped on top of the very last panel showing Nel sweating which in manga normally means the character is a bit worried. On top of her being out of breath later o.

And like I said Base Nnoitra tanked a cero double with his cero combined with Base Nel's cero. This would mean Base Nel is somehow twice as strong as herself which makes absolutely no sense at all.

Nel didn't want to kill him only in Resurrección she was still trying to defeat him while in Base which she couldn't do as they were evenly matched.

 

[Aernasilver]

I know it's a stretch to call that an injury but there is no need to call someone idiotic over it.

 

[Purgy]

I never said Nel was vastly stronger than Nnoitra though... She is stronger, enough to where Nnoitra shouldn't scale to her exactly but it's not a massive difference. Nel is sweating from exhaustion hence the "huffing" and out of breath hence why I said she isn't at peak condition due to only just regaining her form. Her stamina is clearly suffering in the same way Yoruichi was tired after doing Shunpo in the SS Arc and it's possible she can't fully control her power yet.

 

[LordWhis]

Nel is an interesting case in the beginning of the fight you think Nnoitra has lost his marbles and Nel is just a kid.

Then you see Nel blitz Nnoitra and you see her 3 sign and think shit this chick is even stronger than Ulqiorra.

She proceeds to completely stomp Nnoitra for a chapter or 2.

And then suddenly they bring up the whole thing about numbers changing then they suddenly show Nel not do so well. Then she's forced to use resurrecion and then she gets KOed.

She's a hard character to scale.

 

[Peter1129]

@Purgy Nel is not strong to the point where Nnoitra doesn't scale to her. They are very clearly shown to be comparable in chapter 293 since Nnoitra has gotten stronger since last facing her years ago.

Nel scaling above Espadas 4-0 make absolutely no sense as she's just a former Espada #3 and the latest Espadas are stronger than the previous Espadas.

 

[LordWhis]

Weren't the Arrancar (minus starrk) created after SS arc ? They've all been arrancar for a few months at best.

Weren't pretty much all the captains 6B by FKT ? Furthers the argument for 6B Hisagi for being a captain level fighter.

Also didn't Harribel describe Toshiro and Rangiku as a pair of captain level fighters ?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. Pushing someone doesn't scale you. See Ichigo pushing Yhwach's hand.

2. So he didn't land a hit then? so no scaling there.

3. She is on limited power and on limited time, I don't see how this means she was trying really hard when she literally isn't trying to kill him?

4. I still don't see how he scales to her? he did nothing to her and she palmed his cero like it was nothing. him tanking it is a testament to his durability. his AP is below his durability and her AP is 6-B so it makes sense it hurt him quite a bit.

 

[Purgy]

Agree with everything Sigurd said, especially part 4. No reason as to why Nnoitra's durability would scale to his AP since he's renowned for his Hierro and it's even stated he has the best, if his AP scaled to his durability he'd be far higher than Espada #5.