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Bleach: Renji and Mask
- Thread starter Cyberblader90
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Why is the statement Is questionable, it was stated by the curator of the technique to be a beam of light, it doesn't sound hyperbole at all, it doesn't bend, explode, it travels in a straight line, it burns/vaporizes, it reflects off surfaces
please elaborate on why the statement isn't questionable
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Hyperbole is not the sole way a statement can be questionable. Mask inventing the technique doesn't necessarily make his statement any more literal than him saying his "punches of justice" are actually literal.
That's only relevant if it solidly satisfies multiple other requirements. You can believe it does, sure, but some staff members here have reasonable doubt.
This isn't mentioned under any of the requirements. Not exploding or exploding seems like it could be case-by-case anyway. In some fiction, lightspeed lasers actually do explode somehow.
Deflection does not necessarily mean reflection.
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1- punches of justice is hyperbole, you can't be that....un aware if what hyperbole is. "Beam of light" is literal, "punches of justice" isn't, the comparison is false anyway . There is no flowery language in that statement, there us no reason for the curator or the character to lie about it. Prove that the statement is hyperbole or flowery. And yes, mask creates the technique, his words hold much weight than everyone else accept someone who is more knowledgeable or the curator of the series, he invented the technique, he knows the properties that it has. Please prove that his statement is unreliable, flowery or not enough.
2- do we see it bent? No, do we see it travel in a straight line constantly? Yes. Why we would assume something that requires too much assumption without any relevant evidence just for the sake of "it can mean" prove what it can mean. General feats suggests it travels in a straight line, unless there is a contradiction, bring feat that shows it bends. I don't care what other people believe if they don't bring any reasonable arguments to back up their claims
3- also most light beams or light itself doesn't always explode, your point?
The beam has: 'beam of light statement ' fron a reliable source that doesn't have any intentions of lying, it doesn't bend, it travels in a straight line, it reflects, it burns/vaporise, it doesn't explode.
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The statement they are talking about is how Mask (user of the beam) refers to himself as a hero and the oponent as a villain, that's literally it.
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Can someone explain to me why the Beam of Light is invalid?
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Because Mask as a character has a lot of "flair" and is very boisterous in combat, therefore in the eyes of some, everything he says is a joke.
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Wouldnt it be a "possibly ftl" at worse then?
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Which is a poor excuse
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"Flowery language " bs as usual
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- Thread starter
- #251
bump
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I am neutral on the status of the calculation. Though, I think it would be fine to accept Flash's description of the technique as valid given he is the technique creator. From what I read on the justice's points, he refers to some of his attacks being of justice, himself as a hero, and enemy as a villain which be disregarded as flowery language.
Mask doesn't seem to have invalid statements when explaining the effect of his attacks.
Mask doesn't seem to have invalid statements when explaining the effect of his attacks.
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I also want to see the daten evidence; if solid, it could reinforce the beam of the light statement being a solid Option 2 and I could see the light feat is fine.
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The only two chapters I'm aware of that mention Yhwach's data / the daten are 489 and 502, and both of them are to do with the enemy forces to the Wandenreich, not their own soldiers, though maybe that was mentioned elsewhere.
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I'm skimming through the arc but I'll include what I've found today.
Yhwach hands out data
Yhwach still hands out data
Sternritter mandate is to report battle data (which knowing how thorough and strict Yhwach is, I'm positive these battle reports are extremely detailed)
A Quincy displaying that Quincy techniques and how they function are common knowledge to the Quincy
A Quincy displaying that they are knowledgeable in techniques that are outdated
Quilge directly reporting a Quincy technique to His Majesty (aka Quincy techniques make it into the battle data Yhwach distributes)
Yhwach definitely hands out data
Yhwach hands out battle data -> Quincy techniques are reported in battle reports -> battle reports make up the battle data.
While we aren't told by Kubo-sensei that "Yhwach specifically handed Mask data on his own techniques, specifically the beam of light", Yhwach doles out detailed battle info that contains is compiled from info that contains Quincy and Shinigami techniques.
"But whenever someone says 'woah that wasn't in the daten' they're refering to Shinigami techniques", well duh the Quincy's own techniques shouldn't be surprises to them. Point in case, that doesn't prove Yhwach doesn't keep daten on Quincy techniques.
Considering everyone in Bleach likes to explain their attacks, almost as if someone is reading the fight, it makes no sense for them not to know their own techniques.
I'll drop more as I get time to read more.
If I gotta drop every instance of a Quincy correctly explaining their attacks to get the point across that Mask knows his own techniques I'll do it kek
A Quincy correctly explaining a Quincy technique part 1
Yhwach hands out data
Yhwach still hands out data
Sternritter mandate is to report battle data (which knowing how thorough and strict Yhwach is, I'm positive these battle reports are extremely detailed)
A Quincy displaying that Quincy techniques and how they function are common knowledge to the Quincy
A Quincy displaying that they are knowledgeable in techniques that are outdated
Quilge directly reporting a Quincy technique to His Majesty (aka Quincy techniques make it into the battle data Yhwach distributes)
Yhwach definitely hands out data
Yhwach hands out battle data -> Quincy techniques are reported in battle reports -> battle reports make up the battle data.
While we aren't told by Kubo-sensei that "Yhwach specifically handed Mask data on his own techniques, specifically the beam of light", Yhwach doles out detailed battle info that contains is compiled from info that contains Quincy and Shinigami techniques.
"But whenever someone says 'woah that wasn't in the daten' they're refering to Shinigami techniques", well duh the Quincy's own techniques shouldn't be surprises to them. Point in case, that doesn't prove Yhwach doesn't keep daten on Quincy techniques.
I'll drop more as I get time to read more.
If I gotta drop every instance of a Quincy correctly explaining their attacks to get the point across that Mask knows his own techniques I'll do it kek
A Quincy correctly explaining a Quincy technique part 1
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Let me just point this out. I would have no problem if Mask was explaining his attack. An explanation would be something like "My Star Flash is a beam of light that has yada yada effects and does this and that" or "My Star Flash travels at the speed of light" or something similar, which, you know, explains the attack.
This statement "A villain shall die by a hero's beam of light" is the furthest thing away from an explanation of an attack, so the point that Mask is explaining how his attack works, is invalid.
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How does that scan mean that?
Why are you assuming Quilge's knowledge of a generic Quincy technique used by every Sternritter comes from the data that Yhwach supplies?
This is is the issue in your chain of logic. I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere.
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He already does on there, "beam of light", him referring to himself as a hero or renji as a villain does not make his statement invalid
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I'm not saying his knowledge comes from the daten for Blut inherently, likely because he's a Quincy he just knows it, but the fact that he's REPORTING it to His Majesty means Quincy techniques make it into the battle reports.
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I can see how you would come to that conclusion, but that's a leap of logic that's not supported by the manga as far as I can tell. Quilge's reports to Yhwach aren't linked to the battle data on the enemy that Yhwach distributes to his troops.
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Wait so if Mask's attack isn't a beam then what is it?
Because other than the fact that he himself called it a beam..
Questioning that the attack isn't really a laser is by far one of the dumbest arguments I've seen.
Because other than the fact that he himself called it a beam..
- it moved in a straight line.
- didn't bend.
- was reflected.
- didn't explode.
Questioning that the attack isn't really a laser is by far one of the dumbest arguments I've seen.
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Ah, but u see, he referred to himself as a hero and renji as a villain, therefore all he says is not valid.
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I’d like to pose a question:
If I said “die by the hero’s gun”, pulled out a gun, and proceeded to shoot that gun, would you doubt that it’s a gun?
Would you go out and argue that, because I added the flair of “die by a hero’s”, the gun isn’t a real gun? Despite firing and acting like a real gun?
Same exact case with Mask. “Die by a hero’s beam of light”, does not inherently imply beam of light is hyperbolic. In fact, if this CRT fails then any statement made by characters who aren’t serious all the time should be rejected. After all, if a character has added flair to make their appearances entertaining, then they must have 0 credibility.
If I said “die by the hero’s gun”, pulled out a gun, and proceeded to shoot that gun, would you doubt that it’s a gun?
Would you go out and argue that, because I added the flair of “die by a hero’s”, the gun isn’t a real gun? Despite firing and acting like a real gun?
Same exact case with Mask. “Die by a hero’s beam of light”, does not inherently imply beam of light is hyperbolic. In fact, if this CRT fails then any statement made by characters who aren’t serious all the time should be rejected. After all, if a character has added flair to make their appearances entertaining, then they must have 0 credibility.
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- it moved in a straight line.
- didn't bend.
Why are you posting these as separate points as if they aren't the same thing?
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Why are you attacking the format of a post as if it at all works to aid your point or debunk his point?
We can all read, we all know what a straight line and not bending is, prolly just an oversight…
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I didn't even think it's possible for someone to argue this after so many evidence. Do they want the author to come and say it's light speed before they agree? This argument is pretty dumb tbh.
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I don't know what you mean by this? I'm not trying to pick on his choice of formatting exactly; just that to me it looked like he was making a mistake or inflating the amount of arguments on his side by adding unnecessary points.
Apologies if it was just an oversight.
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Uh I don't understand, why saying "die by the hero blah blah blah" debunks the light beam? Light beam doesn't even seem flowery, and the fact it has light qualities [it travels in a straight line, it leaves burned trail, doesn't explode, and it reflects] + plus the beam of light statement
You are literally disproving the statements because "muh hero" then I guess all comedic or poetic anime and manga should be discarded because "muh land "
You are literally disproving the statements because "muh hero" then I guess all comedic or poetic anime and manga should be discarded because "muh land "
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To point out a common mistake here: The bolded things don't really support things at all.
The light beam calc page differentiates between feats that support real light and feats that disprove real light, because the negation of one isn't the other.
It's like: Something being fluid at room temperature means that it isn't iron. But something being solid at room temperature, like iron is, hardly supports the claim that it is iron. That's because all kinds of stuff that isn't iron are also solid at room temperature.
This is similar. A high-pressure water cutter would also fulfill those three points, but is obviously not light. Not to say that attack is that. However, generic energy beams also can have all of those properties.
So, while not having those properties could disprove it being real light (well, technically a real light laser could cause explosions if it vaporizes stuff), having these properties doesn't support it.
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I don’t think that’s a contention, I think he’s pointing out a lack of anti-feats for the beam of light.
Mask’s beam of light satisfies two requirements and has no anti-feats, therefore it’s LS. Is the argument.
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But it also is stated to be a beam of light, so, its beam of light statement + others light requisits and no contradiction
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"Beam of light" is as straight forward as you can get. Lack of anti-feats means it satisfies the "beam of light means it is made of light unless contradicted".
Read this.
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