Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

[AnonymousBlank]

outlier to what

Damage is saying that Renji’s light speed feat after successfully completing god tier training is an outlier because weaker people from previous arcs aren’t as fast.

I don't think that calc really objectively puts this one as an outlier.

Personally I feel like the travel speed issue is far greater of a thing to discuss

I agree but I had to disagree with Damage or else there would be FRA train for his argument.

Out of curiosity, why do you think it’s travel speed?

 

[SilentBob34]

@Cyber, so if the downgrade goes through, should we try and calc them moving from one spot to another to get their travel speed? Might be kinda hard if that’s so important to you.

 

[Torsin]

I think what this would be far less "bit picky" than anything else really. If they have light speed travel speed, that would affect several aspects of scaling in the war Arc including certain distances.

Sure some verses don't differentiate but that doesn't necessarily mean that applies to bleach

Renji being ftl doesn't affect any aspect of scaling in the tybw arc. The only distance calc used in bleach is related to the soul palace and even in that currently the characters aren't being assumed to travel at light speed in fact that feat has been lowballed af imo.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I mean the outlier argument is a possibility yes but my take is again from travel speed not from calcs

It's also not the main point of the CRT which I wish would be addressed

 

[Cyberblader90]

Damage is saying that Renji’s light speed feat after successfully completing god tier training is an outlier because weaker people from previous arcs aren’t as fast.

I agree but I had to disagree with Damage or else there would be FRA train for his argument.

Out of curiosity, why do you think it’s travel speed?

I mainly bring it up as a possibility since we don't actually know his starting point. Mask didn't notice him in the area until he blocked it.

Granted he could have been merely meters away and somehow mask just was being stupid

That's why I brought it up as a possibility

 

[Cyberblader90]

Renji being ftl doesn't affect any aspect of scaling in the tybw arc. The only distance calc used in bleach is related to the soul palace and even in that currently the characters aren't being assumed to travel at light speed in fact that feat has been lowballed af imo.

him being that in reactions and calm as being wouldn't necessarily affect anything potentially.

But for travel speed it would literally mean that any character that has that including himself should be able to traverse the entire area in no time flat. Instead it takes several moments for areas to be traversed

Take Ichigo for example blitzing the quincy girls.

It's not an immediate one-to-one movement

 

[SilentBob34]

@Cyber, it it’s an outlier then I don’t think it matters how legit the feat is or if the attack is light speed. At this point if I were you I’d just argue the outlier argument since that’s what Damage kinda sees at the big problem and he has a lot of weight over how bleach’s stats are gonna be.

although I gotta say, some of your arguments are borderline crazy with how exact you expect manga authors to be. I feel you’re just a little bias but if you’re not, then I hope you put forth a discussion rule that unless a character travels the exact distance they would have to for the speed they’re rated at, then they can’t be that fast.

 

[Reio35]

@Cyber, that’s kinda how it’s been working lately though. We have a single statement her arrows are slower than lightning so we accept that all of her attacks are slower than regular lightning. But we’ll ignore multiple other statements of different things because it’s left up to interpretation I guess.

Already debunked this the narrator himself said its lighting speed. Ginjo saying its slow was him taunting her

I think it being an outlier is more important than anything else, and with character comparable to Renji thinking slow lightning attacks are impressive, I think we should just discuss the outlier part now.

Not once did he say it was impressive and again this is base ginjo. He 2 forms above this

 

[Cyberblader90]

Outlier is towards the bottom of my list in regards to priorities for the CRT.

I think it's a possibility

I much rather discuss whether or not the calc is actually valid given what I've brought up previously

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage so if someone shot a bunch of arrows at you, it wouldn’t make sense to deflect the ones closest to you before the ones further to you? I’m a little confused on how that makes sense. Can you explain?

Well, yes, exactly. That's why the last one Ichigo deflects in the calc is the one furthest away from him.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

him being that in reactions and calm as being wouldn't necessarily affect anything potentially.

But for travel speed it would literally mean that any character that has that including himself should be able to traverse the entire area in no time flat. Instead it takes several moments for areas to be traversed

Take Ichigo for example blitzing the quincy girls.

It's not an immediate one-to-one movement

...But didn't he just blitz them in one go? When he went to talk to Kenpachi?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Well, yes, exactly. That's why the last one Ichigo deflects in the calc is the one furthest away from him.

Damage...You don't debate, do you?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Well, yes, exactly. That's why the last one Ichigo deflects in the calc is the one furthest away from him.

So you took the easiest arrow to deflect and assumed Ichigo moved that speed for the harder ones?

 

[SilentBob34]

@Damage, you’re still confusing me man. For example, if like 5 people threw baseballs at me at different times I would focus on the last one throwing it and deflecting that and consider that my speed instead of how fast I hit the other 4 away? I’m lost.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Damage...You don't debate, do you?

I think what Damage means is that

Low End = Farthest Arrow = Safest

High End = Closest Arrow = ?

 

[SilentBob34]

@Reio, I think it was Damage who said they considered it impressive to dodge attacks slower than lightning but I’m not sure.

 

[Cyberblader90]

...But didn't he just blitz them in one go? When he went to talk to Kenpachi?

If you read the initial sequence the girls notice someone moving and we see a few different shots of someone traversing meters each time before he finally blitzes them

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

I think what Damage means is that

Low End = Farthest Arrow = Safest

High End = Closest Arrow = ?

You do realize doing that would just mean the closest arrow is gonna touch him either way? It's natural reaction to make the character to react to the closest one first because they do not want to get touched by it

 

[Cyberblader90]

Also can I ask that we stop piling on damage
This is not the versus damage CRT

The CRT is about the calc which is currently not really being even addressed

 

[SilentBob34]

@Dangai, and what Cyber just said must be more important than the fact he literally went faster than eye to them from miles away, but I digress.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

If you read the initial sequence the girls notice someone moving and we see a few different shots of someone traversing meters each time before he finally blitzes them

Ichigo literally crashes into the Sereitei far away from them, that's what they noticed.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I mainly bring it up as a possibility since we don't actually know his starting point. Mask didn't notice him in the area until he blocked it.

Granted he could have been merely meters away and somehow mask just was being stupid

That's why I brought it up as a possibility

That’s why the calc uses the distance from the edge of the panel as Renji had to move this distance at minimum since we don’t see him there.

Now onto the points you brought up in the OP, a sound being produced from a laser interacting with another material is something that happens irl so the sound effect isn’t a legit argument against it.

The beam is already star shaped, yes. But the beam after striking Zabimaru’s (reflective) surface is no longer the same shape as it was originally and far too different from every other star shape Kubo has drawn for Mask to just be an artistic choice or a mistake. It’s very clearly meant to be the result of the laser hitting the sword.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Cyber, the calc’s most likely gonna be considered an outlier and disregarded anyway, so why not not talk about other potential feats to scale from?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Also can I ask that we stop piling on damage
This is not the versus damage CRT

The CRT is about the calc which is currently not really being even addressed

This is literally what happens in every language CRT because it seems like Damage doesn't get it and acts hard headed rather than skeptic. Most of the times it seems more like warning rather than a actual CRT.

And he's literally the only person who actually appears to comment is part of the staf

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Cyber, the calc’s most likely gonna be considered an outlier and disregarded anyway, so why not not talk about other potential feats to scale from?

Because that’s not what this CRT is for. The CRT is for talking about potential issues with the actual math and assumptions used in the calc.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Anonymous, you’re right and I’m sorry for kinda derailing it, but some of Cyber’s arguments are just beyond crazy.

 

[AKM sama]

Well, yes, exactly. That's why the last one Ichigo deflects in the calc is the one furthest away from him.

I think this is derailing because Damage's calc is not the purpose of the thread, but I think it would make more sense to calc the speed using the nearest arrow, from what arguments I can see here.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Ichigo literally crashes into the Sereitei far away from them, that's what they noticed.

To address dangai first

 

[AnonymousBlank]

It doesn’t matter if they are crazy or not though. I disagree with them myself but we need to address the points the OP brings up and not simply ignore them.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Ichigo descends (which is somehow perceived by regular fodder shinigami), then makes an impact, then another, then blitzs

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Fact that this is still open speaks volume lol. 4 page thread, multiple calc group dudes, admins all went over every aspect of the calc and somehow the same arguments are back again.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Anonymous, yeah that makes sense man.

@Cyber you do realize that was more of Kubo letting everyone know ichigo who they were depending on very much finally showing up to the fight? Gotta kinda read the context and not just the panels.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ichigo descends (which is somehow perceived by regular fodder shinigami), then makes an impact, then another, then blitzs

And I can see a Mach 2 F-22 from miles away but that doesn’t mean I can react to it up close. I can also see a meteor going 11.2 km/s but I’m still not reacting to that up close. Let’s not forget that right after those panels, they get blitzed by Ichigo.

 

[Cyberblader90]

That’s why the calc uses the distance from the edge of the panel as Renji had to move this distance at minimum since we don’t see him there.

Now onto the points you brought up in the OP, a sound being produced from a laser interacting with another material is something that happens irl so the sound effect isn’t a legit argument against it.

The beam is already star shaped, yes. But the beam after striking Zabimaru’s (reflective) surface is no longer the same shape as it was originally and far too different from every other star shape Kubo has drawn for Mask to just be an artistic choice or a mistake. It’s very clearly meant to be the result of the laser hitting the sword.

Does light produce any sound? : askscience (reddit.com)
Photon Momentum | Physics (lumenlearning.com)

Light does not produce sound regularly. The energy levels implied by that are usually so ridiculously high that realistically the light should be doing way more than what we see
In regards to the shape argument, I addressed the star shape on the blade is not proper reflection, along side the fact that can be its expansion in motion

The argument can also be made that the beam rather expanded out. For both sequences of the beam we don't see the very edge of it until it's hit the target, but if we go with the artistic angle given to us for the beam its seemingly circular. Given that it's very much possible that the expansion on the sword is simply the same thing that happened to the captain which is to say the beam expands out as a star as part of its properties.

Ill recheck the calc for the distance then

 

[Cyberblader90]

And I can see a Mach 2 F-22 from miles away but that doesn’t mean I can react to it up close. I can also see a meteor going 11.2 km/s but I’m still not reacting to that up close. Let’s not forget that right after those panels, they get blitzed by Ichigo.

Can you see an object traveling at light speed? thats the issue

 

[Reio35]

Not to mention ichigo held back the entire war up until yhwach

 

[SilentBob34]

To add on to what Anonymous said, you can’t say no one actually saw ichigo when rukia commented to byakuya about feeling ichigo’s reiatsu and the quincy girls had no idea what was coming down to the seireitei.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Can you see an object traveling at light speed? thats the issue

Yes. You can

 

[SilentBob34]

@Cyber, can you see a bullet if it’s shot at you from 39 feet away? I don’t think so, so you can’t really use that as a valid argument.

 

[SilentBob34]

@Dangai, holy shit that’s an actual fact?