Bleach- PTS Speed Downgrade

[AKM sama]

And those are countered by me saying it's true for any energy attack. That's why they are not there on the page for a reason, because they aren't proof of anything. If you want to argue based on those points alone, get them added to the standards explicitly. They don't make or break any point, especially when the statement itself isn't literal, thus they are irrelevant here.

 

[LordGinSama]

And those are countered by me saying it's true for any energy attack.

Keyword, energy. We aren't talking about enegry attacks, we're talking about attacks that are made of light, and no you haven't countered anything. Firstly of all, you misconstrued that entire argument and used a false comparison at that (There's a difference between an attack composed of enegry, which is usually made of a chi group, vs light and how light and lasers work.)

That's why they are not there on the page for a reason, because they aren't proof of anything.

What? No they aren't, that's some headcanon you yourself made up. The page even directly disagrees with this "notion" of yours. The given criteria on the list is only the basic ones, light as we know it can only travel in a straight line and lasers produce heat. These are both examples of basic science, I don't need to have any of them added as the page itself even notes that these aren't the only requirements.



This is a matter of science, not your personal opinion AKM.

If you want to argue based on those points alone, get them added to the standards explicitly. They don't make or break any point, especially when the statement itself isn't literal, thus they are irrelevant here.

I'm gonna ignore your hyperbole argument as that's a different subject in of itself. But this again, is an appeal to authority. Stop telling me that I need to "implement" something that the pages itself already agrees with. The page literally states that we can use other requirements that aren't found on the wiki page as they don't list all of them. I'm bringing in how light behaves, traveling in a straight line and producing ample amounts of heat.



If anyone here is to make a CRT is ought to be you AKM. What I'm arguing involves basic properties of light it's blatant science that you refuse to accept. It's borderline ignorance at this point.

 

[AKM sama]

Sure, I will give you that those are not the full list of real light qualities, but they are still the basic ones, a few of which need to be satisfied. What you are bringing up is supporting evidence at best, which would have strengthened your argument if it met at least a couple basic requirements. They don't necessarily make or break your point in this case when not even 2 of the basic requirements are met because of how common your supporting points are for literally any kind of attack in fiction.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

To recapitulate my main issues:

Just to say I agree 100% with AKM here.

 

[Reio35]

CFYOW isn't even written by Kubo go sit down

Cfyow is written by kubo

 

[Cyberblader90]

Cfyow is written by kubo

Not exactly. He's supervises and has dictated its Canon but Narita is the actual author

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Which in a way is better since narita is more direct and uses more science stuff

While kubo does not like to spoon feed info to people

 

[Cyberblader90]

Anyway i am now waiting on both the reflection crt and the hikone calc

as for the beam of light thing, that should prob be settled soon

 

[Reio35]

Anyway i am now waiting on both the reflection crt and the hikone calc

as for the beam of light thing, that should prob be settled soon

What hikone calc

 

[LordGinSama]

Sure, I will give you that those are not the full list of real light qualities, but they are still the basic ones, a few of which need to be satisfied. What you are bringing up is supporting evidence at best, which would have strengthened your argument if it met at least a couple basic requirements. They don't necessarily make or break your point in this case when not even 2 of the basic requirements are met because of how common your supporting points are for literally any kind of attack in fiction.

Irrelevant, at this point I'm not arguing for this particular feat (even tho I agree with it being legitimate.) the way you worded your last few replies HEAVILY insinuates that ONLY the basic requirements are the only one's that you can use for a justification.

 

[Cyberblader90]

What hikone calc

Hikone Light Speed feat (Bleach)

vsbattles.fandom.com

in regard to the "illusion of time stop" line, beyond what is already brought up:
I'd argue that it words it as such because time doesn't actually stop in the way you'd traditionally think of time stopping (insert Dio's Za Warudo), which is why it only appears that time has stopped, seeing how in the reference frame we care about time is essentially stopped, but in the rest frame time is still moving
Basically from my understanding of the passage is that from the frame of the observer time has stopped.

normally that would not mean anything to me but the fact that gravity and inertia are mentioned and that the writer already has an understanding of relativity and at least a decent understanding of physics points towards this being something usable for Speed

one of the other passages included also makes a point that it correlates with basically what they call Godspeed
I don't think it's something like FTE or whatever
I think a decent argument could be made that it's basically a relative comparison to the article I posted in the blog
the second passage is from the perspective given by the narrator
not a character

 

[Cyberblader90]

to be frank, I find this more viable to use than Mask. Narita shows a more present understanding of physics. Arc7 also holds the position that this is more viable

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

to be frank, I find this more viable to use than Mask. Narita shows a more present understanding of physics. Arc7 also holds the position that this is more viable

It is tbh

 

[Arcker123]

i second that

 

[Catalyst75]

By characters who have the power to interact with “intangible” objects and souls. Is in their profiles look at it. You can also find the thread about it. All of these claims that you make happened in the intangible world to humans where the characters we know of can touch and interact with it.

My point was that you can't claim attacks like Cero behave exactly like natural light when there are too many instances of that not being the case.

I'd also like to remind you that, every time Humans have gone to one of the spiritual worlds, they've first had their physical matter converted into spiritual matter for the trip. They can interact with it because their bodies are made of the same stuff - reishi. Not even taking into account the instances where beings with spiritual bodies have physically interacted with objects made of regular matter. I.e. every fight that's ever happened in the Living World. Remember when Sado could hit a Hollow with a telephone pole?

As far as I'm aware, the deal with physical vs. spiritual interactions in Bleach is that most Humans can't see spirits. But regular inanimate matter can still interact with spiritual matter.

 

[AKM sama]

Anyway i am now waiting on both the reflection crt

I don't think our reflection standards would get THAT strict. That would mean almost no feat will fit the criteria because of how specific and restrictive it will become. Although, that is derailing.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Yeah. But with the way King's thread went, this beam no longer qualifies for SOL. So we just have to go with the Hikone calc.

Does that mean we're done with this thread? The Hikone thing should probably be a separate CRT.

 

[AKM sama]

Yeah, that would require its own thread.

 

[Damage3245]

As a suggestion, let's hold off on the Hikone feat until the 3rd novel is officially translated. It's only a month away at this point.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I wouldn't mind too much but I have noted that the official translations do take a lot of liberties with certain text.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Anyway what is the final conclusion so far

 

[AKM sama]

I agree with Damage. It's better to wait until there is all the context available rather than just certain parts that could be mistranslated. Official translations would help.

 

[YukaSama4]

Anyway what is the final conclusion so far

the reflection was accepted but there are other questions on the beam itself, Anonymous and AKM were discussing them until hours ago so I think we should wait more unless they already reached a conclusion

 

[AKM sama]

My 1st point was that the statement itself can't be taken literally. Given that, the other stuff doesn't matter much, neither does it greatly support the questionable statement. So I am against this feat being usable.

 

[Axxtentacle]

With the Hikone feat, we should compare the translation Arc did to the official, to see if there's anything consistent. But, either way, Arc's translation and the other translation lined up so it'll probably be usable.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well this will be the last time I say this, but I still support the beam being light speed, I feel this is needlessly strict and accepting something called a “Beam of Light” that moves straight is enough justification for Light Speed

I know what I say doesn’t really matter tho since majority of staff agreed with the downgrade

 

[AKM sama]

More like, the current standards do not concur with your opinion. You're a calc mod, so it's actually more important that you should know exactly what the standards demand before you evaluate any such kind of calc.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

More like, the current standards do not concur with your opinion. You're a calc mod, so it's actually more important that you should know exactly what the standards demand before you evaluate any such kind of calc.

I mean I know what the standards are, I just think they are a bit too strict IMO

 

[AppleLord]

My point was that you can't claim attacks like Cero behave exactly like natural light when there are too many instances of that not being the case.

I'd also like to remind you that, every time Humans have gone to one of the spiritual worlds, they've first had their physical matter converted into spiritual matter for the trip. They can interact with it because their bodies are made of the same stuff - reishi. Not even taking into account the instances where beings with spiritual bodies have physically interacted with objects made of regular matter. I.e. every fight that's ever happened in the Living World. Remember when Sado could hit a Hollow with a telephone pole?

As far as I'm aware, the deal with physical vs. spiritual interactions in Bleach is that most Humans can't see spirits. But regular inanimate matter can still interact with spiritual matter.

 

[Catalyst75]

I was wondering when that argument was going to come up. I am also not surprised by how condescending it is.

Here's how I understand it: within Bleach, all matter has "souls" within it, which allows interactions between physical matter and spiritual matter. This is how it is explained that people can interact with something intangible.

So, in regards to the argument about Bleach intangibility: why do I get the impression it is based upon a Proof-By-Example fallacy?

 

[Damage3245]

I will go through the list of affected profiles and create a draft listing the proposed ratings for them as far as I can tell. Any corrections / suggestions can be handled after that point.

 

[Cyberblader90]

aight
The reflection crt has been settled

 

[Cyberblader90]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

Bump

I'm going through the novel characters now. Will post an update here when I'm done.

 

[Cyberblader90]

aight. sorry to bother

 

[AKM sama]

Has there been any progress with this thread?

 

[Cyberblader90]

Waiting on damage

 

[Damage3245]

Has there been any progress with this thread?

Posting an update for it tonight.

 

[Damage3245]

Here's the sandbox for the characters in the War arc plus a couple novel characters. @AKM sama There's more characters with novel keys but before going ahead and adding those in as well I just want to make sure that the updated ratings for the manga characters who presently scale to FTL or above are correct. Then the rest of the characters can be added in.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

And the source of Sub-Rel is?