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Bleach - Passive Hax from Reiatsu

Except while you'd be normally right, that is major false equivalancy.

Dragon Ball in this particular situation is literally no different down to the core than Bleach here because of the "power>hax" stuff and its the easiest comparison to make to help show why this is wrong. And that if we don't accept it for DB, there's 0 reason why we suddenly can for Bleach. It's not unrelated. It's downright exactly the same.

Meanwhile, Naruto has no baring on stuff where hax is overcome with power to suddenly scale resistances and at least DB doesnt make Bleach threads riot whenever its mentioned, unlike a verse with a spiky yellow haired protag.
 
It should not be resistance to all hax; just what the character has shown resistance to.
 
Damage3245 said:
It should not be resistance to all hax; just what the character has shown resistance to.
Click to expand...


^^^^


This is literally what I've been saying the entire time.
 
PaChi2 said:
Since this involves everyone in the verse and could potentially become a problem depending on how its argued, I think we need more input to evaluate this "Hax passive negation".

@Applelord

Please link the evidence (aka Aizen's and Zaraki's speeches, Aizen lolnoping Soi Fong).

I will highlight this for now.
Click to expand...
Did the best I could on my phone, I will need help with more scans.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Then the "power>hax" stuff regarding Reiatsu should be dropped from the OP.
Click to expand...
Not really. Is very clear that Reiatsu > hax unlike DBZ. Can someone provide a Canon scan for DBZ that states such thing instead of going by words that are not Canon if you really want to continue this discussion. Because power > hax by feats is just that. We are talking about a legit hax that comes from Reiatsu.
 
Yeah I am in agreement with Burning Full Fingers, ProfessorKukui4Life, and PaChi2.

The whole "Resist Hax" is hilariously NLF. This is literally "Ki negates Hax" that DB Fanboys push but reskined for Bleach. It is also highly dependent on Reiatsu specifically and is a NLF even in the series proper, let alone applying it to all other verses.

Induce Fear, Paralysis and Stunning are also a no. They are literally a fictional trope where the weaker opponent senses the stronger and is stunned at their power and presence. Literally every single Shounen with a magical / spiritual energy system has this, and we don't give this as a power for any of them.

I see no Attack Reflection in that scan, just tanking.

Reiatsu Sight is the only real ability I see.
 
Ok, this is hard. For me, it feels like if we allow this we should allow Stand Properties for JJBA. Which for the record, I do think we should allow lol, I never quite understoof why verse equalization applies there when Stands aren't something universal to the verse, and there are other power systems that won't effect stands.

But I digress. If this did go through, it would need to be balanced with other verses where power is nigh-irrelevent to hax effecting people. I contrast this with Dragon Ball because it seems that DB's inherent hax resist is due to power in general trumping hax, not Ki specifically. So I guess I could see Reiatsu. Things like this would be very hard against something like Authority from the nasuverse, where its basically the opposite of the reiatsu principles. If you have more Authority (and the inherent hax that come with it), you trump Power, it doesn't matter how much higher you are in hax or raw power vs If you have more Reiatsu, you trump hax, it doesn't matter how potent your hax would otherwise be.

Point is, I do support that this be applied, but only that it needs a serious discussion of wiki policy on how these things would interact.
 
Paralysis, Fear Inducement and stunning are legit. This isn't a trope but a legit effect that Reiatsu has on weaker opponents. We're an indexing wiki after all, so it should be safe to add. Furthermore it's consistent with the other Reiatsu examples. Not sure about Attack Reflection since I'm still trying to find where it's from.
 
No they are not. This is like adding those as powers to everytime someone senses a stronger Chakra in Naruto, which is not accepted. It's not a legit feat, it's a trope, and the "We are an indexing wiki" argument does not change a thing.

There needs to be far more analysis than just that. Should we add all three for Orochimaru since people are stunned and terrified when they look at him and sense his Chakra. Should we give Slasher Movie villains "Fear Inducement" because people are scared of them?

The answer is a resounding no.
 
Matt does make a good point that this is based largely on a trope, but there is also the case that people hax almost died from just being close to someone with too high spiritual pressure. And I don't mean a Meruem stress style thing, I mean that they legit say that his spiritual pressure almost crushed her
 
That's not a good comparison, Reiatsu and Chakra work very differently and both have different mechanics. Unlike with Chakra, Reiatsu effects in Bleach has always been shown to **** the weaker opponents over. The only good example you've provided is the Orochimaru one. The Movie slasher one is pretty ridiculously in all honesty, it's not them simply getting scared of the stronger opponent. It's the Reiatsu literally forcing the opponent into submission. Someone like Grimmjow would never submit to a stronger opponent, even if it's Aizen. But the Reiatsu forces him to submit.
 
@Knight

It is an exact comparison. It is the same trope working on two different Shounens, albeit two that share very similar styles and tropes. Sensing the energy of a stronger enemy, or a particularly evil enemy and being stunned is the most common thing ever in Shounen.

Yes, Bleach shows that Reiatsu does have some special properties but in this case it is just that: A trope. Orochimaru isn't even the only example. Stuff like that happens with Itachi, Madara, Pain, and many other villains in Naruto too. It also happens with Hisoka in Hunter x Hunter, and happens in One Piece and Dragon Ball too just speaking from the top of my head.

And if it is just Reiatsu, it wouldn't apply to opponents that go by some completely different Power Source.
 
@Matt


Yes expect they react for different reasons. With your Naruto example they're afraid of rumors and the stories surrounding the characters and the fact that they have much more Chakra. Unlike Chakra, Reiatsu can literally crush people and evaporate people just by being near them. It's not a trope but I can see why you'd think so. Again, Reiatsu has actually been shown to do crazy things to people, paralyzing them, pinning them, causing them to submit and installing fear into the weaker opponents. With One Piece it's a tad bit different, there's really nothing in One Piece to compare Reiatsu and Chakra too. The only time fodder get parlayed or get knocked unconscious is when someone uses Kings Haki. There's also the fact that the Yonko and Pirates are viewed as evil and hostile by the public due to the Navy. Also Bleach vs One Piece matches aren't really allowed for that sole reason. Haki works much differently than any other Chi based energy in most works of fiction so we don't equalize it.
 
This is also the same with Dies Irae where having a higher soul count than your other enemie mean outright negating their abilities

But that's DI thing only and is exclusively only to it. Since they are relying on the same power source.

Btw, that's just me. I don't agree with OP but whatever consensus we get on, i'm fine
 
@Knight

No, you're just proving that you not know Naruto. When people sense Orochimaru, or Zabuza's, or Itachi's, or Madara's Chakra they get immediately terrified at their power and killing intent and stop dead in their tracks. This is one of the msot common tropes in Shoune, really.

It also happens in Dragon Ball when people sense Freeza's Ki. The sheer power and killing intent terrifies people.

Yes, crushing people is one thing, but that doesn't mean this trope is a power. The former is demonstrably so. Just like I'm fine with Reiatsu Sight since it is a demonstrable power.
 
The sorta-attack reflection seems fine to me Matt.

Ichigo attacks, he strikes Kenpachi's shoulder, and then he gets the cut on his own shoulder while Kenpachi is unharmed. The Kenpachi explains in that imgur link that when two people collide, the weaker spirit energy takes the damage.
 
Zabuza and Orochimaru project their killing intent, it is different from chakra sensing. People should start to analyze verse by verse and should stop bringing other verses into it.
 
Killing Intent on Naruto is chakra projected onto others. Depending on how powerful they are, the effect is either scaring them to the point they want to end their lives (Sauce) or just making them question their immediate sanity (Kakashi)
 
@Matt


Well for one I never said I'm into Naruto, I just have basic knowledge. Chakra doesn't crush people like how Reiatsu does. With the Paralysis and the Stunning that's done since the Reiatsu is constantly putting pressure on you, making it hard to move.
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as seen with Grimmjow and Ichigo's friends. The Paralysis and stunning effect isn't like normal Paralysis and stunning, you just can't move because of the pressure of the Reiatsu. I'm gonna move from the Fear Inducement since I don't know how to explain that in the correct way but the Paralysis / stunning is correct.
 
Frantzy12 said:
Is Aizen vaporizing other beings near him also a fictional trope?
Click to expand...
That's a completely different thing. I don't think you understand how correlation and causation works. Just because you can demonstrate that Reiatsu has some effects doesn't mean that everything is an effect of Reiatsu.
 
So then what's happening? That seems like pretty evident stunning. I wouldn't call it any type of Gravity Manipulation either since that's never stated.
 
^Because of the opposing soul being ridiciously weaker in comparison to Aizen. May I remind you that the likes of Tatsuki, Keigo and other of Ichigos friends were able to actually stand close to Aizen without being eliminated?

Also, I should bring up the fact that when Ichigo felt Kenpachi's spiritual pressure, he was scared absolutely shitless like the pressurre alone gave him killing intent. But yet when feeling a much stronger spiritual pressure from Byakuya, Ichigo didnt feel one thing. And that was before he did any Banaki training. Matter of fact, that was from when he healed literally right after battling Kenpachi.

So yeah, im in complete agreement with Matt here.
 
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