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Bleach: Memories of Nobody Canon Note (@LordAizenSama Requested It)

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AppleLord

AppleLord

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As a request from @LordAizenSama I wrote a note for the Bleach-verse page, regarding the source for the canon movie Memories of Nobody. Please, only reply if you're a staff member or a retired Staff member, this is a Staff Only THREAD. There's no need to float this thread with heat replies from fans and haters, which could unfortunately still happen. The reason I'm doing this is to see if the Staff Members accept it or not.

NOTE: "The events that happened in Bleach: Memories of Nobody Movie are considered canon as they came to passed in the manga's universe. It's cited when they leave the soul society, between chapters 196 and 197 of the manga.Ichigo said to Riruka in the manga that he has been in the Kyogoku (Valley of Screams) once before. He never went to that place in the manga, the only time we saw him go there was in the movie. By the end of the movie, everyone's memories are erase, except Ichigo's who was still hinted at remembering Senna, and in the manga it was shown that he still remembers said dimension. In the manga the Author also put a flashback of the movie's dimension, where you see the similarity of the background where Senna was held hostage by the villian. The explanation of said phenomenon in both sources is the same, with a small difference; in the movie the KyoGoku created was inside the Dangai, while in the manga the new one was created in the Garganta. (Both are passages use to travel between the Human World and other dimensions inside of Bleach Universe.) Urahara explained that the one created in the Dangai was a problem, hence why Yoruichi stated that all the others are created in the Garganta.The Author also acknowledged using the movie as reference material. The quotation is from Viz Volume 69 of the Bleach Manga."
 
What in the world just happened.

Wasnt the movie already accepted as canon?
 
Please. Im starting to feel very frustrated with Bleach. Any step forward means two steps backwards.

I agree with tr movie being canon.
 
I will argue why I don't believe it's canon, but I will probably require some time, as I would need to write a long response post.
 
Soldier Blue said:
(-_-)

Another Bleach CRT?
Click to expand...
No. We are discussing the canoncity of the movie because it seems it got rejected (and it had already been accepted) without a proper CRT.
 
vFirst, let me address the claim it is canon. Why exactly is it being considered? The post above rambles on and on but doesn't say much. There is exactly one panel worth of dialogue that can be used to argue the movie's canonicity.

Ichigo says that he went to the Valley of Screams before.

That's it.

At first this would make one think that the whole movie is canon, but it honestly isn't. This isn't the first time concepts from Non-Canon anime and movies are taken into primary canon. Just look at the Naruto Shippuden Blood Prison which appeared in the Boruto manga. Neat, right? Doesn't mean Movie 2 is canon. Same with stuff like Ms.Pizza and Gregory appearing in Super not making all of Kai / Toei anime canon. If Gogeta appears in Super that also won't make Fusion Reborn Canon (People would argue that Fusion Reborn would have to be canon for Vegeta to know the fusion dance, but he could have learned it at any point in the years since the end of the Buu Saga. Similarly, Ichigo could have visited the Valley of Screams off-screen at any other point).

The Fairy Tail Dragon Cry movie is also not canon despite having some references in canon media.

Also, Kubo used the movie as a reference image for one panel showing a window. That's it. That is definitely not enough for saying that the whole movie is canon.

Masami Kurumada outright participated in the writing of the Saint Seiya Eris OVA, and drew the designs for all the villains. That's far more participation than Kubo had with Memories of Nobody, but that doesn't make it canon.

Why? Because it simply doesn't fit the continuity. Which brings me to this:

When Rukia appeared in the Arrancar arc, Ichigo hadn't seen her since the Soul Society arc. Rukia showed off her Zanpakutō's powers in the movie, even though she first shows them off against Di Roy in the Arrancar arc. In the movie, Rukia is hanging out with Ichigo too, not even on a mission(she's not even tasked with Karakura Town anymore since Kurumadani took her place as noted in the Arrancar arc).

And there's also the fact that Ichigo was surprised her Shinigami powers came back in the Arrancar arc, even though in the movie, he wasn't.

Also two things about the interpretations of the movie's ending:

1. The explanation above seems to suggest that everyone lost their memories of the movie's events, but what was said is that they'd lose their memories of Senna, which can also mean they'd remember everything about the movie BUT her. The ending with Ichigo is also ambiguous, he just sees her passing and smiles. No confirmation is given about him remembering her or not. We are meant to draw our own conclusions as an audience.

So at this time, we don't know who if anyone actually remembers her.

2. The explanation is misquoting Urahara's explanation. What he says in the film is that the Valleys naturally occur in the Dangai, but essentially this one's getting too big, so it's encroaching on the human & spirit worlds. The explanation in the manga is different.

It can be reconciled by assuming that the Valley in the movie punched into the Dangai from the Garganta, which leads me to the point that you have to assume things would probably be slightly different if Kubo were writing. Not much, just a few small things here & there, like the fact that the Urahara kids shouldn't know Renji yet.

Finally, when exactly would the movie have taken place? It simply doesn't fit the manga timeline: After Ichigo fought Ulquirroa he fought Yami (briefly), then went straight to fight Aizen. Then he lost his powers. There's no possible timeskip in the manga to fit the movie in, specially with him being surprised of seeing Rukia again at all in the Arrancar arc.

In conclusion, Memories of Nobody being canon is iffy and controversial at best, and downright incorrect at worse.

There's also the fact that Memories of Nobody is a movie of the Bleach Anime, not the manga. And there are several differences in Bleach between the original canon manga and the animated adaptation, both minor and significant. It is not a movie that was advertised or meant to be a literal addition or continuation to the manga storyline, like Dragon Ball: Battle of Gods, or Naruto The Last.
 
To reasume: Matthew says the events are canon to the Anime continuity, but for the manga the place and major characters [Like Ichigo and Senna] exist but the major events do not, including the major Senna feat, i have to agree with all of these.
 
Senna doesn't appear in the manga. The Valley of Screams, however, is a concept from the movie which migrated to canon, similarly to the Blood Prison from Naruto.
 
I agree with Matt. I don't see anything that implies the movie is canon beyond a brief mention of a concept in it, not the events, a concept.

Which could just mean the concept is canon in a way not shown in the movie.

Kale having a form that looks like LSSJ doesn't make Broly canon. Same here.
 
It's not. It's a genuine concern backed up by facts and arguments. I think it would be best if we kept this civil and don't throw any accusations, lest it turn into a shitstorm like other Bleach threads.

And this goes for all sides. No poisoning the well by accusing someone of being a Fanboy Wanker or a Downplayer Hater, that in no way increases or reduces the value of one's arguments. Let us all try to address solely one's arguments.
 
I've addressed all the points Matthew has brought in different Bleach revision threads, and he has never replies back. He keeps saying the same things when even in a resend thread I counter more of his arguments again, @LordAizenSama knows this. @LordAizenSama and I don't get along very well. So you can ask him about; if did or did not counter said arguments. I'm not going to go through every thread to find my arguments again. Anyone can go through my contribution table and find them.

P.S.

I'm busy doing the Bleach revisions, because I don't see any passing on the revision threads, and is moving kind of slow. I'll be making blogs about the new downgrades.

I just need this calculations to be check, and approve, so I can continue doing the revisions:

Is there any other calc that has been approve you can take it to my wall. I'll be doing a separate blog for each group of characters:

  • Karakura Town Crew & Visored & Xcution
  • Shinigami
  • Espada level Arrancar & Numeros and Fracción & Hollows
  • Quincy
  • Others
Anyone that wants to help can go there.
 
@Matt

Not referring to your arguments, but the OP's process of making a whole staff-only thread. This removes the input of several members.
 
I actually do respond to all your arguments. It just that you respond with the points I address in my response. So the debating just devolves into a never-ending game of "You're wrong", "No, you!" without any progress or conclusion.
 
The real cal howard said:
From what I can tell, this is the same as saying DBKai is canon because Gregory appeared in DBS.
Click to expand...
Way back in 2015 - Early 2016 we actually used that as an argument so we could 4-A Canon Buu.
 
So-called Bleach-experts don't seem to know what they're talking about. The Bounts were referenced in the Arrancar Arc in the anime. Does that mean the Bount Arc is canon? Of course not...
 
Even with that nod in the manga, it's canon only to the anime.
 
I restored Sera's comments. Is it okay if Sera comments here? She was one of the most helpful staff members once.
 
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