(Bleach) Jugram, Royd & Yamamoto Downgrade

[AppleLord]

Jugram shouldn't scale to Gremmy.

Jugram was scare of the meteor, and even worry that Yhwach would be harm by the meteor. According to the light novels Base Yhwach is the only one capable of defeating Gremmy within the Quincy army, making Gremmy the second strongest Quincy.

Yamamoto's Bankai should be Unknow or at least scale to this feat.

Because the current description on his profile makes no sense, Fake Yhwach lost against Bankai Yamamoto, got one shot, he survived been far away, not up closed. Base Yhwach stole Yamamoto's Bankai but we have no idea how strong is Yhwach after becoming stronger from a 1,000 years ago. Plus adding that Yamamoto had become weaker so having the same tier makes zero sense from the context given in the story.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

The Las Noches calcs....

Cero Oscuras, Lanza Calc, Ichigo's Cero

 

[AppleLord]

I know, still, their current scaling is wrong. Yamamoto's Bankai reason makes no sense, and Royd/Yhwach shouldn't scale either. Regardless, Jugram scales below the meteor. Gremmy is the strongest Quincy after Base Yhwach.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Yama didn't get weaker

When yhwach said that he meant his will and the willingness to kill

The meteor thing is clear pis

 

[AppleLord]

Yama didn't get weaker
When yhwach said that he meant his will and the willingness to kill

The meteor thing is clear pis

Yamamoto was stated to get weaker because of "peace times" and he also lost an arm. (Kendo)

The meteor thing isn't pis, light novel confirmed that Gremmy can only be beaten by Yhwach himself, and is also stated to be the second strongest, therefore, by Jugram's reaction to the meteor he shouldn't be that strong, even Askin was afraid of it. Not to mention Buzz-B who fought Jugram. Perfectly balanced.

 

[HST_Master]

Bazz got stomped by Jugram and Askin never scaled in the 1st place.

 

[AppleLord]

Bazz got stomped by Jugram and Askin never scaled in the 1st place.

Askin defeated Shikai Ichigo who's on par with Uryu and Buzz-B cut Jugram's face with his fire reiatsu while been weakened from his earlier fights and Auswhalen.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Askin had been monologing the entire with the poison probably affecting Ichigo for a long time, heck Ichigo recovered from extremely fast and even Yoruichi is shown to be able to resist it for some time before falling


I wouldn't say Askin defeated Ichigo, it's more like he restrained Ichigo

 

[HST_Master]

Askin only beat Ichigo the same way he beat Grimmjow, having them walk into his Gift Bad, not in a straight up fight. Ichigo even warns Chad and Orihime not to come any closer before they walk into it's radius.

And Jugram proceeded to stomp him. Even trying his hardest he easily got one shotted. Jugram's frustration came from not wanting to fight him or at the very least take it outside the castle.

 

[AppleLord]

Killing or defeating someone doesn't require the fight to be fair.

Buzz-B was weakened prior to fighting Jugram.

 

[Peter1129]

Yamamoto's Bankai should still be High 6-A cause Base Yhwach said that he's the only one that could handle his Bankai. Which means not even Gremmy is capable of stealing his Bankai. Therefore Bankai Yamamoto > Gremmy.

Also since this is a downgrade thread I might as well bring up other characters that need to be downgraded from High 6-A later when I get back home.

 

[HST_Master]

Killing or defeating someone doesn't require the fight to be fair.

Buzz-B was weakened prior to fighting Jugram.

My point is he did it out of his Deathdealing Hax, not AP.

And Bazz-B having Vollstandig taken doesn't really affect the result of the fight.

 

[AppleLord]

Yamamoto's Bankai should still be High 6-A cause Base Yhwach said that he's the only one that could handle his Bankai. Which means not even Gremmy is capable of stealing his Bankai. Therefore Bankai Yamamoto > Gremmy.
Also since this is a downgrade thread I might as well bring up other characters that need to be downgraded from High 6-A later when I get back home.

Yeah, but base Yhwach's power is actually Unknow since he is stronger than Yamamoto and capable of matching Ichibei Shikai.

 

[AppleLord]

Killing or defeating someone doesn't require the fight to be fair.

Buzz-B was weakened prior to fighting Jugram.

My point is he did it out of his Deathdealing Hax, not AP.
And Bazz-B having Vollstandig taken doesn't really affect the result of the fight.

Askin's hax require ki and his ap is linked to that.

Have any proof of that because as far as I know Yhwach, Uryu and Jugram where the only Quincy that didn't had a Vollstandig.

 

[Peter1129]

Wait why would Base Yhwach be Unknown? Isn't he currently High 6-A for being stronger than Gremmy.

 

[AppleLord]

Base Yhwach is at least High 6-A, he is Unknown because he told Ichigo he was going to use his full power on him but couldn't, therefore, we never really say Yhwach's full potential until he fought Ichibei. Base Yhwach got stronger over the years of absorbing souls and is definitely stronger than Gremmy and Yamamoto. Royd shouldn't scale to the Bankai for that reason. He should receive the tier of the calc I did for tanking the blade.

 

[HST_Master]

Gift Bad literally just lowers the tolerance for the atmosphere as soon as you step in it. No AP required.

Have any proof of that because as far as I know Yhwach, Uryu and Jugram where the only Quincy that didn't had a Vollstandig.

What does Yhwach, Jugo, and Uyru not having Vollstandig have to do with Bazz-Bs being taken by Auschwaheln?

 

[AppleLord]

Are you saying Askin can use Gift Bad without reiatsu, and that Askin cannot enhance his AP with Blut Artery by flowing that same reitasu into his veins for Ap, and blut vene for durability?

Auswhalen weakens the target, and he was already exhausted from tanking Yamamoto's shikai and fighting other people like Renji Post-Zero Squad training.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Is it really that difficult to wait for the novels to be done? Downgrading and reupgrading character is pointless especially when pretty much all the calcs from the middle of the series are non-existent...

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

When will the novel be fully done?

 

[AppleLord]

When will the novel be fully done?

Four chapters left to translate.

 

[HST_Master]

False Equivalency. Gift Bad doesn't have anything to do with AP. Same as Respira, and the X-Axis.

Auswhalen either kills them or takes their Vollstandig if they're strong enough to survive it. And Bazz had tanked Yama's Shikai days ago before the second invasion and was fighting Renji and the others with 7 other Sternritters.

 

[AppleLord]

False Equivalency. Gift Bad doesn't have anything to do with AP. Same as Respira, and the X-Axis.
Auswhalen either kills them or takes their Vollstandig if they're strong enough to survive it. And Bazz had tanked Yama's Shikai days ago before the second invasion and was fighting Renji and the others with 7 other Sternritters.

You don't know what fake equivalency means.

Bad Gift is hax that uses reiatsu. Quincy can enhance their AP and Durability by flowing their reiatsu through their veins, and arteries. Unless you're suggesting that reiatsu wavers in level? Which you will have to prove to not be the same thing.

So you deny that Buzz-B wasn't weakened?

 

[HST_Master]

All their abilities are via Reiatsu. Blut is a specific ability that can increase their Dura or AP respectively. I don't have to prove Gift Bad isn't AP based, because that's asking me to prove a negative.

Not as weakened as you say. Not to mention this isn't the 1st time Bazz has tried to fight Jugo, and he never won. And Jugo never even attacked him those past times.

 

[AppleLord]

Gift Bad uses the same energy that gives AP and durability.

Bazz-B was weakened, not that Bazz B scales to Jugram.

 

[HST_Master]

As do all hax in Bleach. Your point being? Hax is to specifically bypass durability.

If you don't think Bazz Scales to Jugo then why'd you bring up Bazz attempting to fight him in the 1st place?

 

[AppleLord]

Askin hax affects reiatsu.

He cut Jugram.

 

[HST_Master]

Askin's hax lowers people's tolerance for their reiatsu while building up his own against it.

He slightly knicked him before never getting a hit on him again and getting hacked to pieces all the while.

 

[Dr.Fix]

I agree with AL. The profiles don't make sense:

"YHWH is the only one who can steal Yamaamoto's bankai, no one else scales to him."

While simutaneously Royd and Lloyd scale by being in his presence/being his twin.

It just doesn't make sense.

Alternative

Loyd= Varies by nature of his power

Royd= high 6-C as was calculated

Yama= low 6-B as calculated

As far as Gremmy goes, dude was locked up at the time YHWH said that so pretty likely he wasn't included.

 

[PaChi2]

Is Gremmy's meteor High 6-A?

If so, the scaling is... Correct?

Shikai kenpachi > meteor

Gerard > shikai ken

Etc.

 

[Sekkonds.]

"YHWH is the only one who can steal Yamaamoto's bankai, no one else scales to him."

While simutaneously Royd and Lloyd scale by being in his presence/being his twin.

yhwach stated that he orderd royd or loyd "i don't actually remember" not to steal yama's bankai because he is the only one who can handle it's power

@applelord

who is stronger in you opinion,shikai zaraki or bankai yama?

.

 

[AppleLord]

Gremmy >>Gerard Novels explained why Gremmy lost. It turned out that the fan theory was correct. Gremmy was so eager to kill Kenpachi he forgot to make a body strong enough to withstand that power, and without any of the CIS Gremmy could had surpassed Shikai Kenpachi. After all the brain surpasess the heart of the Soul King. It's stated that only Yhwach can beat Gremmy in the Sternritter army.

 

[PaChi2]

Gremmy >>Gerard Novels explained why Gremmy lost. It turned out that the fan theory was correct. Gremmy was so eager to kill Kenpachi he forgot to make a body strong enough to withstand that power, and without any of the CIS Gremmy could had surpassed Shikai Kenpachi. After all the brain surpasess the heart of the Soul King. It's stated that only Yhwach can beat Gremmy in the Sternritter army.

Gremmy being at his peak >> Gerard doesnt take anything from the scaling.

We are using the Meteor, not Gremmy's potential.

 

[Danny1112]

I don't recall jugram being afraid of the meteor. He said "Protect his majesty" and just stood there starring at the meteor,also how would a bunch of fodders protect Yhwach huh?all these are just to make the story get going,the author wouldn't care much about their stat scaling.Self jugram would have basically fought kenpachi and stalemated him,would we then imply course he was running around saying "protect his majesty" he shouldn't scale?.

 

[Danny1112]

Also I thought jugram was scaled to Yamamoto?.

 

[Ovy7]

Jugram also survived (at least for a while) SK Yhwach's Aushwallen, while Final Form Vollstanding Gerard got instanly turned into a skeleton, which means that Jugram > Final Form Vollstanding Gerard, and remember that a way weaker form of Gerard traded blows with eyepatch-less + kendo Shikai Kenpachi, meaning:

meteor =< Shikai Kenpachi w/ eyepatch < Kenpachi w/o eyepatch + kendo = Giant Gerard << Final Form Vollstanding Gerard < Jugram

Also, I'm pretty sure that Gremmy is the strongest Sternritter because of his Visionary power, and not raw power. Like, which Sternritter can counter The Visionary, realy?

 

[AppleLord]

I guess Bazz-B, and Nananana >>> Gerard because both survived the direct light of Auswhalen.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Bazz-B dodged the light actually

 

[AppleLord]

Bazz-B dodged the light actually

He was stroke by Auswhalen kneeling in front of Renji. Giselle and Lilotto dodged Auswhalen.

 

[Peter1129]

To be fair Bazz-B and Nanana were Auswhalened by Base Yhwach while Gerard and Jugram were Auswhalened by Soul King Yhwach.