Bleach high godly and concept hax

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Question 117​

Q: Back when Old Man Zangetsu tried to tell his name to Ichigo inside his spiritual world, it was covered in black ink and couldn't be seen. Was that the doing of Ichibei Hyosube?

A: That is correct.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

We literally went through this conversation in this thread, read it up.

what post number? i aint reading all that, no offense

 

[ImmortalDread]

what post number? i aint reading all that, no offense

Mate, it's one page. I won't go over the same conversation again in this specific instance.

 

[Hellscream]

Okay, but like i said maybe read the conceptual manipulation page before you attempt a downgrade.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept

Do you see the part where it says "personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question" part?

Ichibei made up the concept of zanpakuto in general.
It's not a personal concept, nor does it govern a singular object.
Just like altering the concept of a single human would be type 3, altering the concept of humanity itself is type 2.
Another example would be altering the concept of a singular soul is type 3, while altering the concept of souls itself is type 2.
Ichibei doesn't just alter the concept of one zanpakuto, he created the very concept itself for all zanpakuto and all the other shit he named and created.

Simple right?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Mate, it's one page. I won't go over the same conversation again in this specific instance.

How is that breaking the fourth wall? ichibei doesnt interact with the audience

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Snip..

Could you please tag @Purgy he was also agreed with CM type 2. Getting his input would be better as knowledgeable member.

 

[KingogKings777]

Why would Soul King be affected by this? His justification isn’t the same as Ichibei.

On his profile it says he created the concept of life and death.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

On his profile it says he created the concept of life and death.

Which effects all things in Bleach. Is that not type 2?

 

[Hellscream]

Which effects all things in Bleach. Is that not type 2?

Concept of life / death should be CM type 1

 

[ImmortalDread]

Talking about reading comprehension or even trying to insult my reading, read the quote once again and see how your instance is used wrong

Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question

The concept of zanpakuto governs the object that's called zanpakuto and not the reality. Also, it is a personal concept as the concept we are talking is not even governing the reality plane of existence, it is literally regulating the object.

Ichibei made up the concept of zanpakuto in general.

CM 3, “made up” = creating.

It's not a personal concept, nor does it govern a singular object.

LITERALLY, the text book definition of CM type 3 IF IT GOVERNS AN OBJECT, and not the reality. It does not matter if it is personal or not. It still governs the said object, and not the reality.

Just like altering the concept of a single human would be type 3, altering the concept of humanity itself is type 2.

What? This is the worst example I ever heard.

Ichibei doesn't just alter the concept of one zanpakuto, he created the very concept itself for all zanpakuto and all the other shit he named and created.

Creating/altering/destroying is all the same when it comes to the very definition of “Manipulation” in “Concept manipulation”.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

How is that breaking the fourth wall? ichibei doesnt interact with the audience

still havent gotten an answer

 

[ImmortalDread]

still havent gotten an answer

I answered it in that thread, read it to get the answer. I won't copy and paste a whole conv that I had with deceived, in fact, he suggested this ability.

 

[Hellscream]

Except for the small little detail where zanpakuto are a universal concept for shinigami in soul society.
Yet again i ask you to actually read the conceptual manipulation page for the love of god.

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question

GOVERN THE OBJECT IN QUESTION

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence. These concepts shape everything, and changing them would either require the alteration of every object of the concept or, if manipulated directly, change all objects of the concept alongside the concept itself

CHANGING THEM WOULD REQUIRE THE ALTERATION OF EVERY OBJECT OF THE CONCEPT

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I answered it in that thread, read it to get the answer. I won't copy and paste a whole conv that I had with deceived, in fact, he suggested this ability.

thats debunked by the anime, yhwach tried to say his name but was muffled.

 

[ImmortalDread]

But he did not manipulate the concept of zanpakuto, rather he is changing/destroying/altering/creating the names of that concept.

 

[ImmortalDread]

thats debunked by the anime, yhwach tried to say his name but was muffled.

Our conversation was centered around manga since anime was not available at the time. Therefore, I am inclined to verify whether there exists a substantial difference between anime and manga.

 

[Hellscream]

But he did not manipulate the concept of zanpakuto, rather he is changing/destroying/altering/creating the names of that concept.

Dude.
I literally showed that he created the very concept of zanpakuto itself.
Altering the name / concept of a singular zanpakuto which for example would be zanka no tachi (yamamoto's bankai) that's clear cut type 3.
where as altering the very concept of zanpakuto itself is clear cut type 2.

 

[ImmortalDread]

But he did not manipulate the concept of zanpakuto, rather he is changing/destroying/altering/creating the names of that concept.

Furthermore, it should be noted that the concept already existed, and Ichibe simply coined the name for that particular concept. To illustrate, if I were to name my cat, the concept of a cat itself would not be altered, and hence I would not be manipulating a concept type 2.

Dude.
I literally showed that he created the very concept of zanpakuto itself.

Evidence? If you show me the evidence of him altering the names or creating the names, then you did not even understand what I said.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Our conversation was centered around manga since anime was not available at the time. Therefore, I am inclined to verify whether there exists a substantial difference between anime and manga.

Ichigo couldnt hear his name either, clearly not just meant for the audience

 

[Hellscream]

Except for that his ability is true name manipulation that affects the very concept of the thing he names which is where his conceptual manipulation comes from????
And is stated to have named everything in soul society including things such as countless phenomena.
The concept didn't exist mate, he literally said he created in on paper.
The fact that he automatically knows all the names of the zanpakuto that get created shows that he affected them and shows that he governs them
ALL of them by being the one who created the very concept.
You example is completely irrelevant.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ichigo couldnt hear his name either, clearly not just meant for the audience

This is just a higher degree of CM type 3 where he could erase the name of the object, and it's history/existence.

Except for that his ability is true name manipulation that affects the very concept of the thing he names which is where his conceptual manipulation comes from????
And is stated to have named everything in soul society including things such as countless phenomena.

Bro what? Countless phenomena refer to Bankai, zanpakuto …ect (unless you built this sentence completely wrong, but this is false)
Also, yes his ability is name manipulation, it never effected the concept of the object, till now he only manipulated the names of that said concept.

The concept didn't exist mate, he literally said he created in on paper.

Literally the last speech confirmed what I said, he created those names that their concepts already existed.

You example is completely irrelevant.

My example of cat is simple and accurate to definition. IT is obvious relevant mate as we are discussing CM.

 

[KingogKings777]

Which effects all things in Bleach. Is that not type 2?

It's labeled as type 2 on his profile.

 

[Hellscream]

This is just a higher degree of CM type 3 where he could erase the name of the object, and it's history/existence.

Bro what? Countless phenomena refer to Bankai, zanpakuto …ect (unless you built this sentence completely wrong, but this is false)
Also, yes his ability is name manipulation, it never effected the concept of the object, till now he only manipulated the names of that said concept.

Literally the last speech confirmed what I said, he created those names that their concepts already existed.

My example of cat is simple and accurate to definition. IT is obvious relevant mate as we are not discussing CM.

You should just stop at this point tbh

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's labeled as type 2 on his profile.

Manipulating the concepts of life and death was never the default assumption for type 1.

 

[KingogKings777]

Manipulating the concepts of life and death was never the default assumption for type 1.

I never said anything about type 1.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

This is just a higher degree of CM type 3 where he could erase the name of the object, and it's history/existence.

This could also apply as plot manipulation

• Users may be able to determine how things will proceed by writing into the plot what is going to happen (emulating fate, causality and/or probability manipulation).
• Users may be able transform things into other things by altering their description in the plot.
• Users may be able to retroactively change the past, by changing what is recorded about the past in the plot.
• Users may be able to control the action and/or thoughts of others by writing what they do or think into the plot.
• Users may create things by writing that they are present into the plot.
• Users may erase things by erasing any mention of them from the plot.

ichibe seems to either use the third or last case

 

[ImmortalDread]

This could also apply as plot manipulation

• Users may be able to determine how things will proceed by writing into the plot what is going to happen (emulating fate, causality and/or probability manipulation).
• Users may be able transform things into other things by altering their description in the plot.
• Users may be able to retroactively change the past, by changing what is recorded about the past in the plot.
• Users may be able to control the action and/or thoughts of others by writing what they do or think into the plot.
• Users may create things by writing that they are present into the plot.
• Users may erase things by erasing any mention of them from the plot.

ichibe seems to either use the third or last case

WE literally talking about this in that thread, naw I ain't going for the second conversation. Plot manipulation is rejected in that thread.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I never said anything about type 1.

Just telling the other user you replied to, as he assumed it is type 1.

 

[Reio35]

@Marshadow29 where's that remotely said in the text? It just says with his powers he can rewrite names or erase names from an object or an individual.

Anyways the folks that would be affected by this CRT would be Soul King, Ikomikidomoe, Yhwach, Gremmy, Guenael, Shaz and Aizen.

Shaz body was originally made of imagination. He later replaced it with a reishi body. This means he exists independently of mind/body/soul and imagination seeing he can existence without his reishi and imaginary body. So he still should be high godly

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

WE literally talking about this in that thread, naw I ain't going for the second conversation. Plot manipulation is rejected in that thread.

that seems to have been rejected in favor of text manip, which got debunked

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya, I disagree with removing HGR from Shaz, his reasoning is completely different.

 

[ImmortalDread]

that seems to have been rejected in favor of text manip, which got debunked

Moreover, there has been no debunking of the post, and the OP has acknowledged that there is no manipulation of the plot. I have explicitly outlined the reasons supporting this assertion.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Moreover, there has been no debunking of the post, and the OP has acknowledged that there is no manipulation of the plot. I have explicitly outlined the reasons supporting this assertion.

you yourself said text manip would not work. also the op isnt the final authority on if the argument can be used for future arguments

 

[ImmortalDread]

you yourself said text manip would not work. also the op isnt the final authority on if the argument can be used for future arguments

Text manipulation and plot manipulation won't work. Lol.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya, I disagree with removing HGR from Shaz, his reasoning is completely different.

And for Gremmy as well.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Text manipulation and plot manipulation won't work. Lol.

also there is no breaking the fourth wall, since ichibei neither acknowledges the existence of an audience, or the fact that they are in a fictional world

 

[ImmortalDread]

also there is no breaking the fourth wall, since ichibei neither acknowledges the existence of an audience, or the fact that they are in a fictional world

You don't need to acknowledge the existence of audience, when you want to break the 4th wall. Mate what? Yes, it is one of “instances”, but not a requirement.

 

[Reio35]

Icbibei named everything in soul society.

名呼和尚」の異名を持つ禿頭の客番隊リーダー

真の名を呼ぶことができるため、霊王から真名呼和尚の名を貰う。尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)のあらゆる事象に最初に名前をつけた。

護廷十三隊での履歴

護廷十三隊に属していたかは不明だが、尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)のあらゆる事象に最初に名前をつけたのだとすれば、護廷十三隊という名前そのものを付けた可能性の方が高い。京楽やマユリなど、入隊から長い者は面盛がある様子。

真の名を呼ぶ能力を発揮して、敵の名前を削ぎ、奪い、さらに新たな名前を刻むことで力を奪う。創造できる者だけが可能な戦い方だ。

斬魄刀「一文字」で黒く塗り潰されたものは、名を失う。剣の名も自身の名も消え去り、名もなき物だけが残る。

不転太殺陵

和尚が支配する「黒」。百年後の尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)から百夜奪い、転生できない真黒な地球へ誘う。

The bald-headed leader of Squad Zero, also known as the "Monk Who Calls Out the Real Name/Manako Oshō".

Due to being able to call out real names, the Soul King granted him the name "Monk Who Calls Out the Real Name". He was the first to name every phenomenon in Soul Society.

History of Gotei 13

It is unknown if he was a member of the Gotei 13, but if he was the one to name every phenomenon in Soul Society, it is most likely he who gave the Gotei 13 its name. Kyouraku, Mayuri, and others enlisted have been acquaintances for a long time (?).

He demonstrates his ability to call out true names by shaving off his enemy's name, stealing them, and then takes away their power by giving them a new name. This way of fighting is only possible for those who can create.

Those who have been painted in black by his Zanpakutō "Ichimonji" lose their names. The names of their blade and their own vanish, leaving only behind a nameless thing.

Futen Taisatsuryō

The "Black" is ruled by Oshō. By robbing a hundred nights off of Soul Society from a hundred years in the future, he takes others to a pitch-black earth where they are unable to reincarnate.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

You don't need to acknowledge the existence of audience, when you want to break the 4th wall. Mate what? Yes, it is one of “instances”, but not a requirement.

"In most works of fiction, the fourth wall is intact, that is, the characters do not acknowledge the existence of an audience or that they themselves are part of a fictional work. " literally on the page

 

[Hellscream]

Icbibei named everything in soul society.

名呼和尚」の異名を持つ禿頭の客番隊リーダー

真の名を呼ぶことができるため、霊王から真名呼和尚の名を貰う。尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)のあらゆる事象に最初に名前をつけた。

護廷十三隊での履歴

護廷十三隊に属していたかは不明だが、尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)のあらゆる事象に最初に名前をつけたのだとすれば、護廷十三隊という名前そのものを付けた可能性の方が高い。京楽やマユリなど、入隊から長い者は面盛がある様子。

真の名を呼ぶ能力を発揮して、敵の名前を削ぎ、奪い、さらに新たな名前を刻むことで力を奪う。創造できる者だけが可能な戦い方だ。

斬魄刀「一文字」で黒く塗り潰されたものは、名を失う。剣の名も自身の名も消え去り、名もなき物だけが残る。

不転太殺陵

和尚が支配する「黒」。百年後の尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)から百夜奪い、転生できない真黒な地球へ誘う。

The bald-headed leader of Squad Zero, also known as the "Monk Who Calls Out the Real Name/Manako Oshō".

Due to being able to call out real names, the Soul King granted him the name "Monk Who Calls Out the Real Name". He was the first to name every phenomenon in Soul Society.

History of Gotei 13

It is unknown if he was a member of the Gotei 13, but if he was the one to name every phenomenon in Soul Society, it is most likely he who gave the Gotei 13 its name. Kyouraku, Mayuri, and others enlisted have been acquaintances for a long time (?).

He demonstrates his ability to call out true names by shaving off his enemy's name, stealing them, and then takes away their power by giving them a new name. This way of fighting is only possible for those who can create.

Those who have been painted in black by his Zanpakutō "Ichimonji" lose their names. The names of their blade and their own vanish, leaving only behind a nameless thing.

Futen Taisatsuryō

The "Black" is ruled by Oshō. By robbing a hundred nights off of Soul Society from a hundred years in the future, he takes others to a pitch-black earth where they are unable to reincarnate.

The concept manipulation part already got packed up